04 Sep 2003 07:43:04
Eddie
Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

I don't usually mention my cue adds on RSB but this cue is pretty rare and
in all likelihood 1of 1 so why not.
Collectors might appreciate it.
Robert Weir cue.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625434824

Thank You,
Eddie in Detroit




04 Sep 2003 12:41:23
john mcchesney
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

Eddie ..
I am more than positive that the joint and rings are in fact yellow "grainy"
Micarta and not Ivory.
As mentioned earlier to you via a post .. this cue was made under a private
label contract by Helmstetter and cues of that era had that material
John McChesney
Texas Express

"Eddie" <edspeer1@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:c2C5b.28575$Om1.6171@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I don't usually mention my cue adds on RSB but this cue is pretty rare and
> in all likelihood 1of 1 so why not.
> Collectors might appreciate it.
> Robert Weir cue.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625434824
>
> Thank You,
> Eddie in Detroit
>
>




04 Sep 2003 12:41:55
john mcchesney
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

Eddie ..
I am more than positive that the joint and rings are in fact yellow "grainy"
Micarta and not Ivory.
As mentioned earlier to you via a post .. this cue was made under a private
label contract by Helmstetter and cues of that era had that material
John McChesney
Texas Express

"Eddie" <edspeer1@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:c2C5b.28575$Om1.6171@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I don't usually mention my cue adds on RSB but this cue is pretty rare and
> in all likelihood 1of 1 so why not.
> Collectors might appreciate it.
> Robert Weir cue.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3625434824
>
> Thank You,
> Eddie in Detroit
>
>




05 Sep 2003 07:24:57
Eddie
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

Thanks for the information on the joint. I personally thought that the joint
was ivory. I had shown the cue around to quite a few knowledgeable locals
and everyone was in agreement that it was ivory. Perhaps I was wrong. One of
the locals that checked out this stick has a fifty thousand dollar cue
collection and he thought it was ivory too so I thought I was OK in my
assessment of the joint. Perhaps I was wrong though??? I will certainly
change the auction add to reflect this well in advance of its ending. To
anyone that is in the know, how can I determine the joint material for sure?
Is there a fail proof test? The joint is quite yellow so I am quite willing
to accept that the joint is micarta but I don't know how to tell for sure.
There sure is a lot of "grain" visable. Like a piece of wood almost.

Sherm, are you saying that you had an identical cue 20 years back? Is it
your opinion that this cue is not unique? I would like to change my ebay add
to reflect this as well if you are sure. I have received quite a few emails
about the Weir cues since I obtained this one and I DO respect and value
your opinion but you are just one voice in 20 to me at this point. Not
everyone is in agreement with you to say the least. I am only 35 now and
these Weir cues are before my time. I am listening to everyones opinion with
an open mind! I certainly admit that I don't know anything about Robert Weir
but I do know that opinions are differing widely and many people are willing
to give me their opinions.

Here are a couple of examples of the many emails I have received:

"Rumor has it in the south east part of the country, that Bob Weir did make
a few cues in the late 1970's-early 80's. But the federal government banned
him from making any more cues due to failure to pay federal taxes on the
cues he sold. So he went to work part-time for other highly respected cue
makers (I heard he did some work for Bill Schick for awhile). I own half a
dozen of Bobs cues I've acquired over the past 15 years, and I'm keeping
what I have, and have strongly refused to sell any of them!Hope this helps.
Scott in Charlotte,NC"

"What do I know about Weir. He made about 50 cues or so. No more than 100
cues total. Cues were made in the early 80s. He made cues and never reported
his income. So the IRS bashed the door in. In his plea bargain he had to pay
back taxes (after all IRS always gets their's) and would serve no jail time
(he was old at the time-don't know if he is living or not now) so long as he
doesn't make anymore cues.
So he stopped making cues. Sold all of the equipment to pay taxes."

I received another email (I didn't save it) saying that Weir worked
(apprenticed if you please) for Richard Black as well.

Quite a few people seem to believe that Helmstetter made many of these cues.
Some have told me that Bob Weir made quite a few and then got in some kind
of tax trouble or something like that and (after losing his workshop to the
Fed's) then he started buying cues from Helmstetter and passing them off as
his own.

I did a search of RSB archives tonight and this is what I read
***********************************************************************
Eddie ..
He had all his cues made ( private label ) by Richard Helmstetter/Adams in
Japan.
Your cue should have the "wings" logo and an 5/16x18 pin.
John McChesney
Texas Express
************************************************************************
I rember them - IIRC it was mid-to-late 70s
I think he was based in Houston at the time
HTH
Dale
************************************************************************
1983 to 1984 or 85
I know because Bob was, (haven't seen him in years)a good friend of
mine. He first showed his cues at a tournament at a place called Red's
in 1983. I flew out to Huston to play in the tournament and Bob was
there showing the cues. He was somewhat of a fake in that he never
made anything. Nothing wrong with that, except he was not honest about
it at the time. I know he did not do the cue thing for very long. He
also owned a pool room in Ashville, I believe he bought from Wade
Crane. Bob was the black sheep in a jet set type of family. Big Bucks.
************************************************************************
To the best of my knowledge, Robert Weir never made a cue. He had cues,
made in Japan by Adams, embossed with his logo and sold them as if he
was the cuemaker. I just ran across one of his brochures in an old file
the other day and got a chuckle.
8^)
Sherm
************************************************************************
Yup....gotta agree with Sherm again. From what I understand of the cues,
they were made by Adams.
Eric M. Sternberg
Sternberg Custom Cues and Repair
Chattanooga, TN.
***********************************************************************
I believe you have a cue made by fantasy cuemaker Robert Weir. The cues
were really made by Adam in Japan. Another bit of subterfuge by Dick
Helmsteder.
Bill Stroud
************************************************************************
Robert Weir was/is a real person and a cuemaker apprentice of sorts who had
a line of cues made by Helmstetter/Adams for him with his logo and no other.
The details are sketchy on whether Bob Weir claimed to actually have made
the cues or not. I bought one a long time ago with the impression that he
had actually made the cue. During the course of research and the ensuing
verbal battle waged I learned more details including the fact that
Helmstetter was the maker. That said there was nothing inferior about the
cue I had. I wish that I had kept it in retrospect because these cues are
relatively rare and they are representative of what has become a fairly
common practice. Apparently it was quite a scandal when it was "discovered"
that Bob Weir was not the actual maker of the cues.
************************************************************************
Weir cues were a private label made by Adams/Helmstetter in the 80s. Decent
cues - sort of collectible. Apparently Bob Weir passed them off as his own
work. If you want the full story you would need to contact
Richard Black. Bob Weir worked for him for a while. Richard may or may not
be inclined to go into it.
John
************************************************************************
Dick Helmstetter / Adams Cues has a long history of attaching "famous"
names to a line of mass-produced low-end cues:
The "Robert Weir" line - this was the most deceptive attempt, because
Robert Weir really did exist. He was a pool player in Texas. But he
didn't build the cues. The brochure claimed that he had been making
cues for twenty years, though the brand was actually new, with NO
mention of Japan as the real country of origin. The Texas address was a
postal box; the cues were built in Japan and shipped to Texas for
distribution. There was also a well-known American cuemaker involved in
the scheme; his shop was to be used for service and repair work (name
withheld to protect the guilty). This episode in cuemaking history
actually became somewhat of a scandal within the 'inner circle' of
cuemakers.
Thomas Wayne
***********************************************************************




I would like to achieve truth in advertising before my auction is over.

The popular opinion is that:
-Helmstetter made many of the Weir cues.
-Bob Weir made some of them
-Weir cues are collectable and "rare"

Does anyone have anything else to add to the Robert Weir tale?











05 Sep 2003 09:08:15
Cuezilla
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

The quote below in your post is from me and is the truth about Bob. I
doubt he had to sell equipment to pay IRS, his family had zillions. He
used to come into a bowling ally where I played when we were about 16.
He would be about 55 now if he is still around. I introduced him to
Abe Rich in Miami and he made a deal to sell Abe's cues. He was a
pretty good salesman and always had cues in his car. He never really
could play, but liked hanging around pool rooms and pool players. He
had a little relationship with Black, but was probably more to play
golf then learn cue making. I would say it was Black that introduced
him to Dick Helmstetter and Bob started the cue business. He did not
have the skill or know how to build a cue and from knowing him, I
doubt he had any interest in going into a shop everyday and building
cues. As far as the ivory joint, I am surprised someone can't tell if
it is or not. You can usually till looking at the end grain. It is
very distinctive on ivory and can't be faked. I have so much junk
around here, I am sure I can find an old ad for Bob's cues and the
write up when he went out of business, it was a little bit of a
scandal.




> ************************************************************************
> 1983 to 1984 or 85
> I know because Bob was, (haven't seen him in years)a good friend of
> mine. He first showed his cues at a tournament at a place called Red's
> in 1983. I flew out to Huston to play in the tournament and Bob was
> there showing the cues. He was somewhat of a fake in that he never
> made anything. Nothing wrong with that, except he was not honest about
> it at the time. I know he did not do the cue thing for very long. He
> also owned a pool room in Ashville, I believe he bought from Wade
> Crane. Bob was the black sheep in a jet set type of family. Big Bucks.
> ************************************************************************
>


06 Sep 2003 02:08:07
Roger Orsulak
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt. 4 weneer.

Sounds like he was a regular "Captain Tuttle."



"Eddie" <edspeer1@earthlink.net > wrote in message
news:dTW5b.14$_26.4@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
snip

> Here are a couple of examples of the many emails I have received:
>
> "Rumor has it in the south east part of the country, that Bob Weir did
make
> a few cues in the late 1970's-early 80's. But the federal government
banned
> him from making any more cues due to failure to pay federal taxes on the
> cues he sold. So he went to work part-time for other highly respected cue
> makers (I heard he did some work for Bill Schick for awhile). I own half
a
> dozen of Bobs cues I've acquired over the past 15 years, and I'm keeping
> what I have, and have strongly refused to sell any of them!Hope this
helps.
> Scott in Charlotte,NC"
>
> "What do I know about Weir. He made about 50 cues or so. No more than 100
> cues total. Cues were made in the early 80s. He made cues and never
reported
> his income. So the IRS bashed the door in. In his plea bargain he had to
pay
> back taxes (after all IRS always gets their's) and would serve no jail
time
> (he was old at the time-don't know if he is living or not now) so long as
he
> doesn't make anymore cues.
> So he stopped making cues. Sold all of the equipment to pay taxes."
>
> I received another email (I didn't save it) saying that Weir worked
> (apprenticed if you please) for Richard Black as well.
>
> Quite a few people seem to believe that Helmstetter made many of these
cues.
> Some have told me that Bob Weir made quite a few and then got in some kind
> of tax trouble or something like that and (after losing his workshop to
the
> Fed's) then he started buying cues from Helmstetter and passing them off
as
> his own.
>
> I did a search of RSB archives tonight and this is what I read
> ***********************************************************************
> Eddie ..
> He had all his cues made ( private label ) by Richard Helmstetter/Adams in
> Japan.
> Your cue should have the "wings" logo and an 5/16x18 pin.
> John McChesney
> Texas Express
> ************************************************************************
> I rember them - IIRC it was mid-to-late 70s
> I think he was based in Houston at the time
> HTH
> Dale
> ************************************************************************
> 1983 to 1984 or 85
> I know because Bob was, (haven't seen him in years)a good friend of
> mine. He first showed his cues at a tournament at a place called Red's
> in 1983. I flew out to Huston to play in the tournament and Bob was
> there showing the cues. He was somewhat of a fake in that he never
> made anything. Nothing wrong with that, except he was not honest about
> it at the time. I know he did not do the cue thing for very long. He
> also owned a pool room in Ashville, I believe he bought from Wade
> Crane. Bob was the black sheep in a jet set type of family. Big Bucks.
> ************************************************************************
> To the best of my knowledge, Robert Weir never made a cue. He had cues,
> made in Japan by Adams, embossed with his logo and sold them as if he
> was the cuemaker. I just ran across one of his brochures in an old file
> the other day and got a chuckle.
> 8^)
> Sherm
> ************************************************************************
> Yup....gotta agree with Sherm again. From what I understand of the cues,
> they were made by Adams.
> Eric M. Sternberg
> Sternberg Custom Cues and Repair
> Chattanooga, TN.
> ***********************************************************************
> I believe you have a cue made by fantasy cuemaker Robert Weir. The cues
> were really made by Adam in Japan. Another bit of subterfuge by Dick
> Helmsteder.
> Bill Stroud
> ************************************************************************
> Robert Weir was/is a real person and a cuemaker apprentice of sorts who
had
> a line of cues made by Helmstetter/Adams for him with his logo and no
other.
> The details are sketchy on whether Bob Weir claimed to actually have made
> the cues or not. I bought one a long time ago with the impression that he
> had actually made the cue. During the course of research and the ensuing
> verbal battle waged I learned more details including the fact that
> Helmstetter was the maker. That said there was nothing inferior about the
> cue I had. I wish that I had kept it in retrospect because these cues are
> relatively rare and they are representative of what has become a fairly
> common practice. Apparently it was quite a scandal when it was
"discovered"
> that Bob Weir was not the actual maker of the cues.
> ************************************************************************
> Weir cues were a private label made by Adams/Helmstetter in the 80s.
Decent
> cues - sort of collectible. Apparently Bob Weir passed them off as his
own
> work. If you want the full story you would need to contact
> Richard Black. Bob Weir worked for him for a while. Richard may or may
not
> be inclined to go into it.
> John
> ************************************************************************
> Dick Helmstetter / Adams Cues has a long history of attaching "famous"
> names to a line of mass-produced low-end cues:
> The "Robert Weir" line - this was the most deceptive attempt, because
> Robert Weir really did exist. He was a pool player in Texas. But he
> didn't build the cues. The brochure claimed that he had been making
> cues for twenty years, though the brand was actually new, with NO
> mention of Japan as the real country of origin. The Texas address was a
> postal box; the cues were built in Japan and shipped to Texas for
> distribution. There was also a well-known American cuemaker involved in
> the scheme; his shop was to be used for service and repair work (name
> withheld to protect the guilty). This episode in cuemaking history
> actually became somewhat of a scandal within the 'inner circle' of
> cuemakers.
> Thomas Wayne
> ***********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> I would like to achieve truth in advertising before my auction is over.
>
> The popular opinion is that:
> -Helmstetter made many of the Weir cues.
> -Bob Weir made some of them
> -Weir cues are collectable and "rare"
>
> Does anyone have anything else to add to the Robert Weir tale?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




06 Sep 2003 19:34:20
Tony DeAngelo
Re: Ebay Add -- 22+ year old Robert Weir Cue. Ivory Joint. 4pt.



Eddie wrote:
I will certainly
> change the auction add to reflect this well in advance of its ending.


How about now? I notice it still says Ivory.