The Cotter Revelation

23 Apr 2008 19:00:02

"It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
and to tell it,' Sproul said."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,00.html

This volume is definitely on my wish list.

24 Apr 2008 00:32:24

Husband of All FBI n NSA Agent

Re: Jew Hating Rodney Ulyate, FBI, NSA PSYCHOPATHS, 888-888-8888 and TORTURE PROOF

<rodney.ulyate@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:f7df2500-bb05-46f1-9481-111fab82008d@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,00.html
>
> This volume is definitely on my wish list.

FBI n NSA PSYCHOPATH Rodney Ulyate,

Yeah I am so scared of being SHOT by you FBI n NSA PSYCHOPATHIC
BASTARDS.

Rodney Ulyate, FBI, NSA PSYCHOPATHS, 888-888-8888 and TORTURE PROOF
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.cricket/msg/9c0079202ed33410

24 Apr 2008 08:57:08

Cicero

Re: The Cotter Revelation

<rodney.ulyate@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:f7df2500-bb05-46f1-9481-111fab82008d@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,00.html
>
> This volume is definitely on my wish list.

Off topic- my grandfather fought at Beersheeba. He wasn't part of the charge
(he was the 1st Light Horse)- he died quite a few years back so I can't ask
him :)

24 Apr 2008 05:07:34

Re: The Cotter Revelation

Unless I am much mistaken, this is not the first biography of Cotter.
I remember someone -- it might have been me -- posting a link to
another in the Bodyline thread.

24 Apr 2008 12:10:08

Aslam Siddiqui

Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 23, 10:00=A0pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>

Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.

Boer War:
JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
forces in Durban, South Africa

WWI:
C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
Light Horse (see above for details)
RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine

WWII:
AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
(two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
Greiveson)
ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
Accra, Gold Coast
K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
Warden, Oxfordshire, England
RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
Bengal, India
GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
England
DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
Islands, Scotland
H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
Itlay

I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.

aslam
GO CUBS!!!

25 Apr 2008 12:37:27

Mad Hamish

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT), Aslam Siddiqui
<asiddiqu@iupui.edu > wrote:

>On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>
>> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>
>
>Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
>a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.

He was in the trenches in WWI, it would be unusual if he didn't...
--
"Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by."
Stuart Adamson 1958-2001

Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au

25 Apr 2008 06:13:57

Cicero

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

"Mad Hamish" <newsunspammelaws@iinet.unspamme.net.au > wrote in message
news:ctg214ljprfpkbm0cjoiges6a5r6qhdtrr@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT), Aslam Siddiqui
> <asiddiqu@iupui.edu> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>>> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>>> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>>> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>>> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>>> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>>> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>>
>>> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>>
>>
>>Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
>>a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>
> He was in the trenches in WWI, it would be unusual if he didn't...
> --
There weren't many trenches that were manned by the Light Horse. (Apart from
Gallipoli where they fought as infantry- no horses).

25 Apr 2008 03:47:45

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu > wrote:
> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>
> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
> a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>
> Boer War:
> JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
> forces in Durban, South Africa
>
> WWI:
> C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
> A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
> Light Horse (see above for details)
> RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
> KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
> EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
> RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
> GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine
>
> WWII:
> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
> Greiveson)
> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
> Accra, Gold Coast
> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
> Bengal, India
> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
> England
> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
> Islands, Scotland
> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
> Itlay
>
> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>
> aslam
> GO CUBS!!!

A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:

Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
(Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.

Cheers
Ross

25 Apr 2008 12:24:29

Cicero

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

<jessopus6@email.com > wrote in message
news:a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>
>> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>
>> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
>> a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>>
>> Boer War:
>> JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
>> forces in Durban, South Africa
>>
>> WWI:
>> C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
>> A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
>> Light Horse (see above for details)
>> RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
>> KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
>> EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
>> RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
>> GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine
>>
>> WWII:
>> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
>> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
>> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
>> Greiveson)
>> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
>> Accra, Gold Coast
>> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
>> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
>> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
>> Bengal, India
>> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
>> England
>> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
>> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
>> Islands, Scotland
>> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
>> Itlay
>>
>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
>> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>>
>> aslam
>> GO CUBS!!!
>
>
> A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>
> Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
> (Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>

Nitpick. I think most of these were ex Test cricketers. We could also have a
post about prospective Test cricketers.

25 Apr 2008 07:10:25

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 25, 10:24 pm, "Cicero" <moofi...@bigpond.net.au > wrote:
> <jessop...@email.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
> >> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>
<snip >

> >> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
> >> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
> >> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>
> >> aslam
> >> GO CUBS!!!
>
> > A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>
> > Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
> > (Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>
> > Cheers
> > Ross
>
> Nitpick. I think most of these were ex Test cricketers. We could also have a
> post about prospective Test cricketers.

Sorry, wasn't nit-picking.
Simply adding two more names to that of Shujauddin as players who were
POWs but survived.

25 Apr 2008 17:31:26

Andy Walker

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

In article <a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com >,
<jessopus6@email.com > wrote:
>On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
>> Islands, Scotland

There ought to be a story there! Sullom Voe wasn't exactly
a front-line hotbed of the war. Sadly, it seems he died of pneumonia,
which suggests that the weather rather than action was the problem.
"Inactive service"?

[...]
>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>> POW camp.
>
>A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
>(Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.

If anyone wants to research this, the war-time Wisdens have
quite detailed info, along the lines of "XXX, who was reported
missing, is now known to be safe and in POW camp in Italy", or
whatever. My own collection of Wisdens is not complete, sadly.

--
Andy Walker
Nottingham

25 Apr 2008 17:16:17

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 25, 12:47 pm, jessop...@email.com wrote:
[...]
> A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
> Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
> (Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.

Although he does not quite fit the bill, E.W. Swanton is worth
mentioning.

26 Apr 2008 15:05:44

David North

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

"Andy Walker" <anw@cuboid.uk > wrote in message
news:fut4he$g2t$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
> In article
> <a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> <jessopus6@email.com> wrote:
>>On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:

>>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>>> POW camp.
>>
>>A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>>Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
>>(Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>
> If anyone wants to research this, the war-time Wisdens have
> quite detailed info, along the lines of "XXX, who was reported
> missing, is now known to be safe and in POW camp in Italy", or
> whatever. My own collection of Wisdens is not complete, sadly.

A search of Wisden on CricInfo adds Walter Wade of SA, who was captured at
Tobruk and held at Stalag 344, Lamsdorff.
--
David North

26 Apr 2008 16:02:48

Robert Henderson

Re: The Cotter Revelation

In message
<f7df2500-bb05-46f1-9481-111fab82008d@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >,
rodney.ulyate@gmail.com writes
>"It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
>http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,00.html
>
>This volume is definitely on my wish list.

Having had ages to read the material I sent you, what do you think of
Frith now? RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

26 Apr 2008 15:56:52

Re: The Cotter Revelation

On Apr 26, 5:02 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk >
wrote:
> In message
> <f7df2500-bb05-46f1-9481-111fab820...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes
> >"It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> >a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> >Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> >October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> >the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> >act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> >and to tell it,' Sproul said."
> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
> >This volume is definitely on my wish list.
> Having had ages to read the material I sent you, what do you think of
> Frith now? RH

Sorry for the delay. A smorgasbord of erratic internet access, wild
social life and overwhelming workload means that my Usenet fun is
taking a back seat. I have just posted a pithy response in the "RH -
WCM still remembers you..." thread.

27 Apr 2008 16:07:10

alvey

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT), Aslam Siddiqui wrote:

>
> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
> POW camp.

Dennis Compton spent quite some time in India during WWII. Does that count?

alvey

27 Apr 2008 08:32:46

Cicero

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

"alvey" <alvey_embarrassingstains@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:bpkovs8zw495$.1403ljrbw0k3l.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT), Aslam Siddiqui wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>> POW camp.
>
> Dennis Compton spent quite some time in India during WWII. Does that
> count?
>
>
>
>
> alvey

He should have got a VC.

27 Apr 2008 19:23:44

alvey

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 08:32:46 GMT, Cicero wrote:

> "alvey" <alvey_embarrassingstains@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bpkovs8zw495$.1403ljrbw0k3l.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT), Aslam Siddiqui wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>>> POW camp.
>>
>> Dennis Compton spent quite some time in India during WWII. Does that
>> count?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> alvey
>
> He should have got a VC.

Wally Hammond got something very close...

28 Apr 2008 14:49:03

Andrew Dunford

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

"Aslam Siddiqui" <asiddiqu@iupui.edu > wrote in message
news:66937bc9-9231-4fcc-be0c-2336d0e70ce0@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>
> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>

<snip >

> WWII:
> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
> Greiveson)
> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
> Accra, Gold Coast
> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
> Bengal, India
> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
> England
> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
> Islands, Scotland
> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
> Itlay

Add:
MJL Turnbull (Eng) - died in active service with Welsh Guards during the
invasion of Normandy, near Montchamp, France.

Some honourable mentions for WWII:

A Ducat (Eng) - collapsed and died at the wicket whilst batting for the
Surrey Home Guard v Sussex Home Guard at Lord's, 23 July 1942.

Major WN Carson MC (NZ) - died on a hospital ship off Egypt. Bill Carson
appeared in 20 first-class matches on New Zealand's tour of England in 1937,
without playing any Tests. Also played rugby for New Zealand.

CT Ashton (Cambridge University & Essex) and RDK Winlaw (Cambridge
University and Surrey) - both died when the planes they were respectively
piloting collided with one another at Caenarvon, Wales, 31 October 1942.

<snip >

Andrew

28 Apr 2008 14:59:04

Andrew Dunford

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

<jessopus6@email.com > wrote in message
news:a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>
>> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>
>> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
>> a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>>
>> Boer War:
>> JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
>> forces in Durban, South Africa
>>
>> WWI:
>> C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
>> A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
>> Light Horse (see above for details)
>> RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
>> KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
>> EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
>> RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
>> GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine
>>
>> WWII:
>> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
>> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
>> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
>> Greiveson)
>> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
>> Accra, Gold Coast
>> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
>> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
>> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
>> Bengal, India
>> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
>> England
>> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
>> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
>> Islands, Scotland
>> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
>> Itlay
>>
>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
>> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>>
>> aslam
>> GO CUBS!!!
>
>
> A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>
> Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
> (Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.

Freddie Brown (Eng) was in the same camp as Bowes.

Didn't The Oval serve as a POW Camp during WWII?

Andrew

28 Apr 2008 14:38:03

dechucka

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

"Andrew Dunford" <adunford@artifax.net > wrote in message
news:67ksrvF2o7rimU2@mid.individual.net...
>
> <jessopus6@email.com> wrote in message
> news:a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>>> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>>> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>>> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>>> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>>> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>>> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>>> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>>
>>> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>>
>>> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
>>> a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>>>
>>> Boer War:
>>> JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
>>> forces in Durban, South Africa
>>>
>>> WWI:
>>> C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
>>> A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
>>> Light Horse (see above for details)
>>> RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
>>> KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
>>> EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
>>> RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
>>> GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine
>>>
>>> WWII:
>>> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
>>> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
>>> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
>>> Greiveson)
>>> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
>>> Accra, Gold Coast
>>> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
>>> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
>>> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
>>> Bengal, India
>>> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
>>> England
>>> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
>>> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
>>> Islands, Scotland
>>> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
>>> Itlay
>>>
>>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>>> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
>>> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>>>
>>> aslam
>>> GO CUBS!!!
>>
>>
>> A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>>
>> Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
>> (Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>
> Freddie Brown (Eng) was in the same camp as Bowes.
>
> Didn't The Oval serve as a POW Camp during WWII?

Was going to be but ended up not being used for this purpose

29 Apr 2008 06:14:03

Robert Henderson

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

In message <67gr5oF2ohitiU1@mid.individual.net >, David North
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > writes
>"Andy Walker" <anw@cuboid.uk> wrote in message
>news:fut4he$g2t$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
>> In article
>> <a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32dc4d@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> <jessopus6@email.com> wrote:
>>>On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>
>>>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
>>>> POW camp.
>>>
>>>A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
>>>Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
>>>(Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>>
>> If anyone wants to research this, the war-time Wisdens have
>> quite detailed info, along the lines of "XXX, who was reported
>> missing, is now known to be safe and in POW camp in Italy", or
>> whatever. My own collection of Wisdens is not complete, sadly.
>
>A search of Wisden on CricInfo adds Walter Wade of SA, who was captured at
>Tobruk and held at Stalag 344, Lamsdorff.

FReddie Brown, E W Swanton - both in Jap caps. Swanton was followed
throughout his life after the war by stories about his collaboration
with the Jap, ie, he acted as an informer. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

29 Apr 2008 06:04:42

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 24, 9:10 pm, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu > wrote:
> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death.

You refer, I presume, to his trundling a muddy orb and then
announcing, "That's my last bowl. Something's going to happen."

<snip >

29 Apr 2008 07:18:20

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 29, 3:14 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk >
wrote:
> In message <67gr5oF2ohit...@mid.individual.net>, David North
> <dno...@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>
>
>
> >"Andy Walker" <a...@cuboid.uk> wrote in message
> >news:fut4he$g2t$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
> >> In article
> >> <a418153c-a470-488e-bc71-88652d32d...@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >> <jessop...@email.com> wrote:
> >>>On Apr 25, 5:10 am, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>
> >>>> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
> >>>> POW camp.
>
> >>>A Google search indicates that there were two others at least:
> >>>Ben Barnett (Aussie 'keeper on 38 Ashes tour) and Bill Bowes
> >>>(Yorkshire & England) spent some time as POWs.
>
> >> If anyone wants to research this, the war-time Wisdens have
> >> quite detailed info, along the lines of "XXX, who was reported
> >> missing, is now known to be safe and in POW camp in Italy", or
> >> whatever. My own collection of Wisdens is not complete, sadly.
>
> >A search of Wisden on CricInfo adds Walter Wade of SA, who was captured at
> >Tobruk and held at Stalag 344, Lamsdorff.
>
> FReddie Brown, E W Swanton - both in Jap caps. Swanton was followed
> throughout his life after the war by stories about his collaboration
> with the Jap, ie, he acted as an informer. RH
> --
> Robert Henderson
> Blair Scandal website:http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
> Personal website:http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

re: the Swanton "informer" story...
Hadn't heard of that before.

Robert, do you know if the claim circulated "in hushed tones" so to
speak, or more openly in newspaper articles or books ?

Cheers
Ross

29 Apr 2008 13:16:53

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 29, 3:04 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 24, 9:10 pm, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> > > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> > > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> > > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> > > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> > > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> > > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
> > >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
> > Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death.
>
> You refer, I presume, to his trundling a muddy orb and then
> announcing, "That's my last bowl. Something's going to happen."
>
> <snip>

Oh, Rodney . . . you're so cooooooool!

30 Apr 2008 09:35:57

Andrew Dunford

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

29 Apr 2008 23:49:30

Dave (SA)

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

Aslam Siddiqui wrote:
> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>> a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>> Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>> October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>> the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>> act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>> and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>>
>> http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>>
>
> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death. Any way here is
> a list of Test cricketers who died while on active duty.
>
> Boer War:
> JJ Ferris (Aus/Eng) - Died of typhoid while serving with the British
> forces in Durban, South Africa
>
> WWI:
> C Blythe (Eng) - killed in action at Passchendale, Belgium
> A Cotter (Aus) - at Beersheba, Palestine while with the Australian
> Light Horse (see above for details)
> RHM Hands (SAf) - died of war wounds at Bethune, France
> KL Hutchings (Eng) - killed in action at Ginchy, France
> EB Lundie (SAf) - killed in action near Passchendale, Belgium
> RO Schwarz (SAf) - died of influenza at Etaples, France
> GC White (SAf) - died of war wounds at Gaza, Palestine
>
> WWII:
> AW Briscoe (SAf) - killed in action during the Abyssinian campaign at
> present day Kombolcha, Ehiopia
> (two other South African cricketer served with him - B Mitchell and RE
> Greiveson)
> ABC Langton (SAf) - killed in an air crash near Maiduguri, Nigeria or
> Accra, Gold Coast
> K Farnes (Eng) - killed in active service while flying at Chipping
> Warden, Oxfordshire, England
> RG Gregory (Aus) - died in active service with RAAF near Ghafargaon,
> Bengal, India
> GB Legge (Eng) - killed in action in air at Brampord Speke, Devon,
> England
> DAR Moloney (NZ) - died in a POW camp at El Alamein, Egypt
> GG Macaulay (Eng) - died in active service at Sullom Voe, Shetland
> Islands, Scotland
> H Verity (Eng) - died of war wounds in a POW camp at Caserta, Sicily,
> Itlay
>
> I wonder whether any one has a list of Test cricketers who survived a
> POW camp. The only player I know of is Shujauddin (Pak) who was
> captured in East Pakistan and spent some time in an Indian camp.
>
> aslam
> GO CUBS!!!
>
>

South African test players seem to have got more than their share of
bullets especially in WW1 - 4 out of the 7 killed.

Were the English cricketers many miles behind the lines sipping tea with
General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett?

29 Apr 2008 15:18:18

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 29, 10:16 pm, dbarre...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
> Oh, Rodney . . . you're so cooooooool!

As far as debuts go, Dennis, that's about as auspicious as a
Newfoundland weather forecast.

29 Apr 2008 16:42:20

Robert Henderson

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

In message
<cde86313-34da-492c-b065-69d7d17601c0@l25g2000prd.googlegroups.com >,
jessopus6@email.com writes
>> with the Jap, ie, he acted as an informer. RH
>> --
>> Robert Henderson
>> Blair Scandal website:http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
>> Personal website:http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk
>
>re: the Swanton "informer" story...
>Hadn't heard of that before.
>
>Robert, do you know if the claim circulated "in hushed tones" so to
>speak, or more openly in newspaper articles or books ?
>

From memory, I think you will find it details in the Daily Telegraph
obituary of Swanton. RH

>Cheers
>Ross

--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

30 Apr 2008 07:46:01

Cicero

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

<rodney.ulyate@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:ae9c6a5d-97a2-4d05-a9ad-4678b0a9548c@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 24, 9:10 pm, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
>> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
>> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
>> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
>> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
>> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
>> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
>> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
>> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death.
>
> You refer, I presume, to his trundling a muddy orb and then
> announcing, "That's my last bowl. Something's going to happen."
>
> <snip>

From "Official History of Australia in The War of 1914- 1918 Volume VII
Sinai and Palestine. (This Volume was not written by C. E. W. Bean who was
in France):

"The mounted stretcher bearers rode forward, as they always did, with the
advanced light horse lines, and worked coolly in the midst of the dismounted
fight round the earthworks. While so engaged Private A. Cotter, the famous
Sydney fast bowler, was shot dead by a Turk at close range. As has been
recorded already, he had been at the second Gaza engagement been singled out
for fine work under heavy fire; he behaved in action as a man without fear."

There is some prior talk of German and Turkish prisoners, but if he took
risks under heavy fire it is not surprising he was killed while doing so.

01 May 2008 09:18:00

Re: Test cricketers dying in wars

On Apr 30, 9:46 am, "Cicero" <moofi...@bigpond.net.au > wrote:
> <rodney.uly...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ae9c6a5d-97a2-4d05-a9ad-4678b0a9548c@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> > On Apr 24, 9:10 pm, Aslam Siddiqui <asidd...@iupui.edu> wrote:
> >> On Apr 23, 10:00 pm, rodney.uly...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > "It is generally accepted that Cotter was shot on October 31, 1917, by
> >> > a Turk after the famous charge at Beersheba by the 12th and 4th
> >> > Australian Light Horse regiments. But in his book to be published in
> >> > October, Sproul and co-author Max Bonnell advance a new theory: that
> >> > the 32-year-old was fatally wounded when a Turk prisoner committed an
> >> > act of perfidy. 'I have felt driven, over time, to get the story right
> >> > and to tell it,' Sproul said."
> >> >http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23589923-5001505,0...
> >> Supposedly, Cotter had a premonition about his death.
> > You refer, I presume, to his trundling a muddy orb and then
> > announcing, "That's my last bowl. Something's going to happen."
> > <snip>
> From "Official History of Australia in The War of 1914- 1918 Volume VII
> Sinai and Palestine. (This Volume was not written by C. E. W. Bean who was
> in France):
> "The mounted stretcher bearers rode forward, as they always did, with the
> advanced light horse lines, and worked coolly in the midst of the dismounted
> fight round the earthworks. While so engaged Private A. Cotter, the famous
> Sydney fast bowler, was shot dead by a Turk at close range. As has been
> recorded already, he had been at the second Gaza engagement been singled out
> for fine work under heavy fire; he behaved in action as a man without fear."

That is interesting, not least of all because of its univocality and
the source's apparent confidence in it. It certainly contradicts
Sproul's hypothesis.

<snip >