| |
| 01 May 2008 14:11:57 |
| jarcyntcccdi@yahoo.com |
| Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
If you are thinking of purchasing a gun, or other "self-protection" device such as pepper spray or an alarm, then you are obviously concerned about your personal safety. You know it is essential to learn how to defend yourself, now more than ever! Today, not only do you have to worry about criminals, but now terrorists as well! What is this world coming to? Would you know what to do? You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, real- world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other "self-defense" products) are often ineffective when it comes to self-defense. Why? There are many factors that contribute, but the main reason weapons are ineffective is, if the weapon is not in your hand at the moment of attack, you will never get the chance to use it! But, the law does not allow you to walk around with a gun in your hand, and most studies show that people soon forget to carry the various types of self- protection devices they purchase. Even if you have a stun gun or pepper spray in your purse or pocket, if caught by surprise, you won't have a chance to get it out before you get decked! Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that just got snatched out of your hand! Tests prove that 90% of the time, you will never get the chance to reach for your weapon before you are hurt too severely to use it.... http://groups.msn.com/martialartsqen |
| 01 May 2008 18:32:33 |
| Herbert Cannon |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotous regularity. When seconds count the police are just minutes away. |
| 01 May 2008 23:38:33 |
| nemo_outis |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
"Herbert Cannon" <hcannon18@cox.net > wrote in news:nqsSj.111769$Ft5.107628 @newsfe15.lga: > An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotous regularity. Actually, only once :-) |
| 01 May 2008 22:24:19 |
| Rabid Weasel |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On Thu, 01 May 2008 14:11:57 -0700, jarcyntcccdi@yahoo.com wrote: > If you are thinking of purchasing a gun, or other "self-protection" > device such as pepper spray or an alarm, then you are obviously > concerned about your personal safety. Never mind that now... What are you wearing? Peace favor your sword (IH), Kirk -- FREE historic Western Martial Arts manuals: http://www.lulu.com/lawson Western Martial Arts - http://cbd.atspace.com/ "...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise." -Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts |
| 01 May 2008 22:25:28 |
| Rabid Weasel |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On Thu, 01 May 2008 23:38:33 +0000, nemo_outis wrote: > "Herbert Cannon" <hcannon18@cox.net> wrote in news:nqsSj.111769$Ft5.107628 > @newsfe15.lga: > >> An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotous regularity. > > Actually, only once :-) I may not think much of you (well, more than I think of hal, but that ain't too hard), but that was freaking FUNNY! 2 POINTS! (IH), Kirk -- FREE historic Western Martial Arts manuals: http://www.lulu.com/lawson Western Martial Arts - http://cbd.atspace.com/ "...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise." -Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts |
| 02 May 2008 02:39:00 |
| nemo_outis |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Rabid Weasel <lawson@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne > wrote in news:pan.2008.05.02.02.25.27.151973@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne: > I may not think much of you (well, more than I think of hal, but that > ain't too hard), but that was freaking FUNNY! Sorry, I lapsed out my persona - I won't let it happen again. Regards, |
| 01 May 2008 22:39:09 |
| Rabid Weasel |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On Fri, 02 May 2008 02:39:00 +0000, nemo_outis wrote: > Rabid Weasel <lawson@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne> wrote in > news:pan.2008.05.02.02.25.27.151973@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne: > >> I may not think much of you (well, more than I think of hal, but that >> ain't too hard), but that was freaking FUNNY! > > Sorry, I lapsed out my persona - I won't let it happen again. Good. Now say something insulting and simultaneously try to bait Trav into another snake-eating-its-tail debate. (IH), Kirk -- FREE historic Western Martial Arts manuals: http://www.lulu.com/lawson Western Martial Arts - http://cbd.atspace.com/ "...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise." -Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts |
| 02 May 2008 09:05:57 |
| Wayne Dobson |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
jarcyntcccdi@yahoo.com wrote: > If you are thinking of purchasing a gun, or other "self-protection" > device such as pepper spray or an alarm, then you are obviously > concerned about your personal safety. You know it is essential to > learn how to defend yourself, now more than ever! Today, not only do > you have to worry about criminals, but now terrorists as well! ...and meteorites. Don't forget meteorites! > What is > this world coming to? Would you know what to do? > You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, real- > world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other "self-defense" > products) are often ineffective when it comes to self-defense. Why? > There are many factors that contribute, but the main reason weapons > are ineffective is, if the weapon is not in your hand at the moment of > attack, you will never get the chance to use it! Yeah, I've been trying to tell people around here, this, but it's fallen on deaf ears. Most of us don't live in war-zones, but densely packed cities. Brushing past all sorts is just part of the average day. There are no uniforms to identify who the enemy is, for us to shoot them from a distance. It's tactics that matters more than fine distinctions regarding the choice of weapon; any common weapon suitable for the purpose will serve, with good training. > But, the law does not > allow you to walk around with a gun in your hand, and most studies > show that people soon forget to carry the various types of self- > protection devices they purchase. > Even if you have a stun gun or pepper spray in your purse or pocket, > if caught by surprise, you won't have a chance to get it out before > you get decked! Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that > just got snatched out of your hand! Tests prove that 90% of the time, > you will never get the chance to reach for your weapon before you are > hurt too severely to use it.... Mace is probably one of the least effective self-defence devices, for reasons of how it is carried (in a handbag), fiddlyness and lack of stopping power. -- Wayne Dobson AKA "Dobbie The House Elf" |
| 02 May 2008 07:04:19 |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On Fri, 02 May 2008 09:05:57 GMT, "Wayne Dobson" <noname@noaddress.com > wrote: > >> But, the law does not >> allow you to walk around with a gun in your hand, and most studies >> show that people soon forget to carry the various types of self- >> protection devices they purchase. >> Even if you have a stun gun or pepper spray in your purse or pocket, >> if caught by surprise, you won't have a chance to get it out before >> you get decked! Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that >> just got snatched out of your hand! Tests prove that 90% of the time, >> you will never get the chance to reach for your weapon before you are >> hurt too severely to use it.... > >Mace is probably one of the least effective self-defence devices, for >reasons of how it is carried (in a handbag), fiddlyness and lack of stopping >power. I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. fuckin' EH ! Hal |
| 02 May 2008 10:01:58 |
| Herbert Cannon |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
> Mace is probably one of the least effective self-defence devices, for > reasons of how it is carried (in a handbag), fiddlyness and lack of > stopping power. Yes if carried that way you are correct. However, most ladies I know will place in on their key ring and then in their hand when exiting a place of business and crossing a parking lot. |
| 02 May 2008 08:41:40 |
| Shuurai |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
> If you are thinking of purchasing a gun, or other "self-protection" > device such as pepper spray or an alarm, then you are obviously > concerned about your personal safety. You know it is essential to > learn how to defend yourself, now more than ever! Today, not only do > you have to worry about criminals, but now terrorists as well! Yes, if you are concerned about safety than having a weapon is a good idea. Learning to use it properly is another good idea. > What is this world coming to? Judging by the latest astronomical data, that would be Andromeda. But not for several billion years. > Would you know what to do? I don't plan on being around in several billion years... oh, you mean the safety thing. Just train, that's all. Train to use readily available weapons in an effective manner. > You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, real- > world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other "self-defense" > products) are often ineffective when it comes to self-defense. Why? This is nonsense. Weapons are an amazing equalizer. Certainly your ability (and willingness) to actually use a weapon is a factor, but even in the hands of a relative novice, a gun or a knife can be deadly. Why do you think every single culture on the planet through history has developed them? > There are many factors that contribute, but the main reason weapons > are ineffective is, if the weapon is not in your hand at the moment of > attack, you will never get the chance to use it! This is more nonsense. Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly is training to deploy the weapon. For example, I carry a knife in my pocket. Part of training involves getting the knife into my hand.. With time and practice, it becomes very easy - I can draw on most people before they even register what is happening. I can draw while in standing clinch, and I can draw while rolling on the ground. The reason is because I practice those things, over and over and over again, against opponents who actually try to stop me (the "actually try to stop me" part is key). You do raise a valid point. Having a gun or a knife that isn't readily accessable doesn't do you a lot of good. > But, the law does not > allow you to walk around with a gun in your hand, and most studies > show that people soon forget to carry the various types of self- > protection devices they purchase. Please cite *one* actual study that shows this; I can assure you that "most" is an extreme exaggeration. > Even if you have a stun gun or pepper spray in your purse or pocket, > if caught by surprise, you won't have a chance to get it out before > you get decked! Perhaps not; so part of your self-defense training must involve dealing with the attacker *while* you draw your weapon. Obviously there is no way to deal with every attack; if someone clubs you over the head with a tire iron from behind, chances are your gun wouldn't matter even if it *was* in your hand. > Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that > just got snatched out of your hand! Right; so put it in your pocket or on a belt clip. > Tests prove that 90% of the time, > you will never get the chance to reach for your weapon before you are > hurt too severely to use it.... Hehe... 90% of the time, eh? Again, would you mind actually citing the actual tests that "prove" this? |
| 02 May 2008 08:50:57 |
| Renli |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On May 2, 9:04 pm, h...@nospam.org wrote: > > I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only > way to be sure. lol aliens - |
| 02 May 2008 10:02:50 |
| travisgod@aol.cominyrface |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On May 1, 10:39 pm, "nemo_outis" <a...@xyz.com > wrote: > Rabid Weasel <law...@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne> wrote innews:pan.2008.05.02.02.25.27.151973@NO870177SPAM+dayton.ne: > > > I may not think much of you (well, more than I think of hal, but that > > ain't too hard), but that was freaking FUNNY! > > Sorry, I lapsed out my persona - I won't let it happen again. > > Regards, Lapse back into it, I have a need to be derogatory toward another idiot...I'm missing my daily fix. Trav |
| 02 May 2008 18:55:02 |
| nemo_outis |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
"travisgod@aol.cominyrface" <travisgod@aol.com > wrote in news:de24d85a-9738-45af-80ad-088b410fcdda@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > Lapse back into it, I have a need to be derogatory toward another > idiot...I'm missing my daily fix. Your mirror is broken? |
| 02 May 2008 19:15:46 |
| travisgod@aol.cominyrface |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On May 2, 2:55=A0pm, "nemo_outis" <a...@xyz.com > wrote: > "travis...@aol.cominyrface" <travis...@aol.com> wrote innews:de24d85a-9738= -45af-80ad-088b410fcdda@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > > > Lapse back into it, I have a need to be derogatory toward another > > idiot...I'm missing my daily fix. > > Your mirror is broken? My other fix. Trav |
| 03 May 2008 20:33:22 |
| Herbert Cannon |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
"nemo_outis" <abc@xyz.com > wrote in message news:Xns9A91B378617F5pqwertyu@64.59.135.159... > "Herbert Cannon" <hcannon18@cox.net> wrote in news:nqsSj.111769$Ft5.107628 > @newsfe15.lga: > >> An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotous regularity. > > Actually, only once :-) One man one bullet. |
| 04 May 2008 18:00:47 |
| roger taylor |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Shuurai writes > > Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be >useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly >is training to deploy the weapon. 'Should be' rather than 'is' would probably be more accurate but I agree, deployment is the most important part of carrying a weapon for self-defence. That said, anyone got any practical ideas on how to carry say, a small knife, in such way that it doesn't get forgotten when you change clothes? Cheers Roger Taylor www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm www.alternativeparty.org.uk www.2asisters.org/english/ |
| 04 May 2008 17:29:16 |
| nemo_outis |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
roger taylor <rst@NoSpamhawklan.demon.co.uk > wrote in news:HpNiMLB $ueHIFwAh@hawklan.demon.co.uk: > Shuurai writes >> >> Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be >>useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly >>is training to deploy the weapon. > > 'Should be' rather than 'is' would probably be more accurate but I > agree, deployment is the most important part of carrying a weapon for > self-defence. That said, anyone got any practical ideas on how to carry > say, a small knife, in such way that it doesn't get forgotten when you > change clothes? What technique do you use to remember to take your wallet? Use that. Regards, |
| 04 May 2008 14:03:01 |
| Herbert Cannon |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
"nemo_outis" <abc@xyz.com > wrote in message news:Xns9A9474DC442B3pqwertyu@64.59.135.159... > roger taylor <rst@NoSpamhawklan.demon.co.uk> wrote in news:HpNiMLB > $ueHIFwAh@hawklan.demon.co.uk: > >> Shuurai writes >>> >>> Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be >>>useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly >>>is training to deploy the weapon. >> >> 'Should be' rather than 'is' would probably be more accurate but I >> agree, deployment is the most important part of carrying a weapon for >> self-defence. That said, anyone got any practical ideas on how to carry >> say, a small knife, in such way that it doesn't get forgotten when you >> change clothes? > > What technique do you use to remember to take your wallet? Use that. > Taxes? |
| 05 May 2008 17:18:24 |
| roger taylor |
| Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense - credit card knife? |
nemo_outis > writes >What technique do you use to remember to take your wallet? Use that. Good point. Ditto the car/house keys. Anyone any thoughts on Spyderco's 'credit card knife' or similar Cheers Roger Taylor www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm www.alternativeparty.org.uk www.2asisters.org/english/ |
| 05 May 2008 16:36:53 |
| Pboud |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense |
roger taylor wrote: > nemo_outis> writes >> What technique do you use to remember to take your wallet? Use that. > > Good point. Ditto the car/house keys. > > Anyone any thoughts on Spyderco's 'credit card knife' or similar > > Cheers > > Roger Taylor > www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm > www.alternativeparty.org.uk > www.2asisters.org/english/ Last resort, hard deploy, needs acting skills.. (though somewhat more than Seagal in GlimmerMan, but you get the idea) :P P. |
| 05 May 2008 13:13:20 |
| Shuurai |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
> > Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be > >useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly > >is training to deploy the weapon. > > 'Should be' rather than 'is' would probably be more accurate but I > agree, deployment is the most important part of carrying a weapon for > self-defence. =A0 Nope, I am sticking with "is" - the key being that I said "training to use a weapon properly." Any training that does not include accessability is not proper training. > That said, anyone got any practical ideas on how to carry > say, a small knife, in such way that it doesn't get forgotten when you > change clothes? It just has to be a part of your routine; like making sure you have your keys. |
| 05 May 2008 20:18:10 |
| Wayne Dobson |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Shuurai wrote: >> You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, >> real- world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other >> "self-defense" products) are often ineffective when it comes to >> self-defense. Why? > > This is nonsense. Weapons are an amazing equalizer. No they're not. They're effective if you use them right. If you use them wrong, they can be surprisingly ineffective. > Certainly your > ability (and willingness) to actually use a weapon is a factor, but > even in the hands of a relative novice, a gun or a knife can be > deadly. Why do you think every single culture on the planet through > history has developed them? I've repeatedly taken dummy knives away from various attackers, in training and if I'm close to them and they haven't already deployed whatever it is they have, I think it unlikely that they'll ever get the chance. >> There are many factors that contribute, but the main reason weapons >> are ineffective is, if the weapon is not in your hand at the moment >> of attack, you will never get the chance to use it! > > This is more nonsense. Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be > useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly > is training to deploy the weapon. For example, I carry a knife in my > pocket. Part of training involves getting the knife into my hand.. > With time and practice, it becomes very easy - I can draw on most > people before they even register what is happening. That would make you an exception, methinks. > I can draw while > in standing clinch, and I can draw while rolling on the ground. The > reason is because I practice those things, over and over and over > again, against opponents who actually try to stop me (the "actually > try to stop me" part is key). > > You do raise a valid point. Having a gun or a knife that isn't > readily accessable doesn't do you a lot of good. Most people just think that having a weapon is sufficient, not thinking of how accessible it is. >> But, the law does not >> allow you to walk around with a gun in your hand, and most studies >> show that people soon forget to carry the various types of self- >> protection devices they purchase. > > Please cite *one* actual study that shows this; I can assure you that > "most" is an extreme exaggeration. > >> Even if you have a stun gun or pepper spray in your purse or pocket, >> if caught by surprise, you won't have a chance to get it out before >> you get decked! > > Perhaps not; so part of your self-defense training must involve > dealing with the attacker *while* you draw your weapon. Obviously > there is no way to deal with every attack; if someone clubs you over > the head with a tire iron from behind, chances are your gun wouldn't > matter even if it *was* in your hand. That's part of why empty-hand training isn't redundant. >> Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that >> just got snatched out of your hand! > > Right; so put it in your pocket or on a belt clip. If that option is available to you. You need to train to retrieve it from however you carry it. -- Wayne Dobson AKA "Dobbie The House Elf" |
| 05 May 2008 13:38:21 |
| Shuurai |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
> >> You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, > >> real- world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other > >> "self-defense" products) are often ineffective when it comes to > >> self-defense. Why? > > > This is nonsense. =A0Weapons are an amazing equalizer. > > No they're not. =A0They're effective if you use them right. =A0If you use = them > wrong, they can be surprisingly ineffective. Obviously a weapon is more effective in the hands of an experienced user. However, that being said, even in a hands of a novice a weapon can offer an incredible advantage. A few months of good knife training can trump *years* of empty hand training. > > Certainly your > > ability (and willingness) to actually use a weapon is a factor, but > > even in the hands of a relative novice, a gun or a knife can be > > deadly. =A0Why do you think every single culture on the planet through > > history has developed them? > > I've repeatedly taken dummy knives away from various attackers, in trainin= g > and if I'm close to them and they haven't already deployed whatever it is > they have, I think it unlikely that they'll ever get the chance. Against people who actually train with knives? > > This is more nonsense. =A0Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to be= > > useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon properly > > is training to deploy the weapon. =A0For example, I carry a knife in my > > pocket. =A0Part of training involves getting the knife into my hand.. > > With time and practice, it becomes very easy - I can draw on most > > people before they even register what is happening. > > That would make you an exception, methinks. Nah- lots of people can do this sort of thing if they actually train for it. > > You do raise a valid point. =A0Having a gun or a knife that isn't > > readily accessable doesn't do you a lot of good. > > Most people just think that having a weapon is sufficient, not thinking of= > how accessible it is. Which was exactly the point. Accessability is key. > > Perhaps not; so part of your self-defense training must involve > > dealing with the attacker *while* you draw your weapon. =A0Obviously > > there is no way to deal with every attack; if someone clubs you over > > the head with a tire iron from behind, chances are your gun wouldn't > > matter even if it *was* in your hand. > > That's part of why empty-hand training isn't redundant. Nobody said anything about redundant. The point is, there is simply no way to prepare for everything. You could be the best knife fighter on Earth, if someone clubs you over the head with a tire iron from behind, you're going down and none of your knife skills will even matter. The exact same applies to empty-hand training. There are no guarantees. > >> Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that > >> just got snatched out of your hand! > > > Right; so put it in your pocket or on a belt clip. > > If that option is available to you. =A0You need to train to retrieve it fr= om > however you carry it. Correct. |
| 05 May 2008 22:26:35 |
| roger taylor |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense - credit card knife? |
>roger taylor wrote: >> Anyone any thoughts on Spyderco's 'credit card knife' or similar >Last resort, hard deploy, needs acting skills.. (though somewhat more >than Seagal in GlimmerMan, but you get the idea) I do, but I'd prefer his paycheck :-) Deployment is always going to be the problem with a weapon and only thought, practice and enough empty-handed skills to buy the time will fix it, but I was thinking more of ease of routine carrying - work, jogging, whatever - and thus something associated with the wallet or keys. Cheers Roger Taylor www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm www.alternativeparty.org.uk www.2asisters.org/english/ |
| 05 May 2008 22:35:17 |
| roger taylor |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Shuurai writes >Nope, I am sticking with "is" - the key being that I said "training to >use a weapon properly." Any training that does not include >accessability is not proper training. By that definition, I suspect a very large number of martial artists won't be doing proper training :-) However, I wouldn't start a Pedants' Revolt over it - we both what's meant >> That said, anyone got any practical ideas on how to carry >> say, a small knife, in such way that it doesn't get forgotten when you >> change clothes? >It just has to be a part of your routine; like making sure you have >your keys. Only problem with 'routine' on its own is that most of us have spent our entire adult life - i.e. a lot of dedicated practice - in checking we have our keys. Establishing a 'check the knife' routine will take a long time. Safest, I think, would be a knife kept with the keys. Any ideas, anyone? Cheers Roger Taylor www.hawklan.demon.co.uk/ki.htm www.alternativeparty.org.uk www.2asisters.org/english/ |
| 05 May 2008 21:43:30 |
| Wayne Dobson |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Shuurai wrote: >>>> You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" Unfortunately, >>>> real- world tests have shown that overall , weapons (or other >>>> "self-defense" products) are often ineffective when it comes to >>>> self-defense. Why? >> >>> This is nonsense. Weapons are an amazing equalizer. >> >> No they're not. They're effective if you use them right. If you use >> them wrong, they can be surprisingly ineffective. > > Obviously a weapon is more effective in the hands of an experienced > user. However, that being said, even in a hands of a novice a weapon > can offer an incredible advantage. A few months of good knife > training can trump *years* of empty hand training. I don't think the gulf is as extreme as you suggest. >>> Certainly your >>> ability (and willingness) to actually use a weapon is a factor, but >>> even in the hands of a relative novice, a gun or a knife can be >>> deadly. Why do you think every single culture on the planet through >>> history has developed them? >> >> I've repeatedly taken dummy knives away from various attackers, in >> training and if I'm close to them and they haven't already deployed >> whatever it is they have, I think it unlikely that they'll ever get >> the chance. > > Against people who actually train with knives? Yes. >>> This is more nonsense. Granted, the weapon must be *accessable* to >>> be useful to you, but a large part of training to use a weapon >>> properly is training to deploy the weapon. For example, I carry a >>> knife in my pocket. Part of training involves getting the knife >>> into my hand.. With time and practice, it becomes very easy - I can >>> draw on most people before they even register what is happening. >> >> That would make you an exception, methinks. > > Nah- lots of people can do this sort of thing if they actually train > for it. Sure, but I don't get the impression that many do. >>> You do raise a valid point. Having a gun or a knife that isn't >>> readily accessable doesn't do you a lot of good. >> >> Most people just think that having a weapon is sufficient, not >> thinking of how accessible it is. > > Which was exactly the point. Accessability is key. I'm agreeing with you. >>> Perhaps not; so part of your self-defense training must involve >>> dealing with the attacker *while* you draw your weapon. Obviously >>> there is no way to deal with every attack; if someone clubs you over >>> the head with a tire iron from behind, chances are your gun wouldn't >>> matter even if it *was* in your hand. >> >> That's part of why empty-hand training isn't redundant. > > Nobody said anything about redundant. That very thing has been stated a fair number of times, over the years. > The point is, there is simply > no way to prepare for everything. You could be the best knife fighter > on Earth, if someone clubs you over the head with a tire iron from > behind, you're going down and none of your knife skills will even > matter. The exact same applies to empty-hand training. There are no > guarantees. That's why tactics trumps skills. >>>> Mace does you no good if it is still in the purse that >>>> just got snatched out of your hand! >> >>> Right; so put it in your pocket or on a belt clip. >> >> If that option is available to you. You need to train to retrieve it >> from however you carry it. > > Correct. Naturally... Hahaha... -- Wayne Dobson AKA "Dobbie The House Elf" |
| 05 May 2008 16:05:01 |
| Sam the Bam |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
On May 1, "jarcyntcc...@yahoo.com" <jarcyntcc...@yahoo.com > wrote: > If you are thinking of purchasing a gun, or other > "self-protection" device such as pepper spray or > an alarm, then you are obviously > concerned about your personal safety. Today, not > only do you have to worry about criminals, but now > terrorists as well! And terrorist landlords, oh my! > What is this world coming to? Hell in a shopping cart. > Would you know what to do? I'd log into rec.m-a and laugh at the douchebag spammers. > You may be thinking, "Well, I'll just get a gun!" > Unfortunately, real- world tests have shown that overall, > weapons (or other "self-defense" > products) are often ineffective when it comes to self-defense. yeah, guns don't work, they won't even overcome a 40 year age disadvantage... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/03/BAU710FQDD.DTL&hw=oakland&sn=013&sc=584 Another one bites the dust... > http://groups.msn.com/martialartsqen " LEGAL DISCLAIMER: The information contained within the products offered from this website are for entertainment purposes only. HOWTOFIGHTANDWIN.COM takes no legal responsibility for any physical injury or harm you may sustain if you use this information." LOL Where's Playfighter... you have any legal disclaimer at SSS? Sam |
| 05 May 2008 18:14:14 |
| Herbert Cannon |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
>>> I've repeatedly taken dummy knives away from various attackers, in >>> training and if I'm close to them and they haven't already deployed >>> whatever it is they have, I think it unlikely that they'll ever get >>> the chance. >> >> Against people who actually train with knives? > > Yes. I think we have been here before. |
| 05 May 2008 23:34:41 |
| Wayne Dobson |
| Re: Self Defense Weapons - What Is The Best Weapon For Self Defense? |
Herbert Cannon wrote: >>>> I've repeatedly taken dummy knives away from various attackers, in >>>> training and if I'm close to them and they haven't already deployed >>>> whatever it is they have, I think it unlikely that they'll ever get >>>> the chance. >>> >>> Against people who actually train with knives? >> >> Yes. > > I think we have been here before. Yeah, same answer as last time. -- Wayne Dobson AKA "Dobbie The House Elf" |