| |
| 28 Apr 2008 14:01:34 |
| John Griffiths |
| Florida PADI |
Hi, I'm going to Florida for several weeks and I've got some time to kill so I want to do a basic and then an advanced PADI. Anyone have any advice such as good schools, best value etc? I'll be staying in Miami but I'll be mobile. Cheers |
| 28 Apr 2008 19:48:47 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
John Griffiths wrote > I'm going to Florida for several weeks and I've got some time to kill so I > want to do a basic and then an advanced PADI. Anyone have any advice > such as good schools, best value etc? I'll be staying in Miami but I'll > be > mobile. I'm not sure there's anyone from the Miami area in this group that has taken entry level courses from anyone still in the business of offering them. There are dive shops on every corner, well, almost every corner, down here and all of them are pretty good. Your best bet is probably to just call around and find one or more than can accomodate your schedule. Having said that, I don't personally favor back to back PADI courses, particularly Open Water and Advanced. I think it's a good idea to get input from other agencies and even an even better idea to spend a bit of time diving between Open Water and Advanced. I think you'll gain more from the advanced course if you've had time to get comfortable with the equipment and entry level diving. Lee |
| 28 Apr 2008 21:26:40 |
| El Stroko Guapo |
| Re: Florida PADI |
John Griffiths wrote: > Hi, > I'm going to Florida for several weeks and I've got some time to kill so I > want to do a basic and then an advanced PADI. Anyone have any advice such > as good schools, best value etc? I'll be staying in Miami but I'll be > mobile. > > Cheers Training is cheap in SoFla because there are so many instructors. As has been stated here many many times, the hard part is finding a really good instructor that you get along with well. Certification here will require a couple boat charters, make sure you compare prices including the boats. You should start where you live, get the books and get the classroom and pool stuff out of the way, spend yer Miami time in the water. Avoid buying more than the basic equipment. Get a mask that fits (has nothing to do with price - find one that fits well and just pay whatever the tag says), a decent pair of fins (Quattros work well for everyone, avoid tricky/trendy), and the absolute cheapest snorkel you can find (the ones that wash up on the beach are best value). Rent everything else. I would stick to Miami and north, avoid the Keys. If ya do have plenty of time, get yer basic and do some diving around Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano/Boynton. Get as much experience as possible before yer advanced, and get yer advanced from a different instructor. good luck esg |
| 29 Apr 2008 10:12:38 |
| Blah |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Lee Bell wrote: > John Griffiths wrote > >> I'm going to Florida for several weeks and I've got some time to kill so I >> want to do a basic and then an advanced PADI. Anyone have any advice >> such as good schools, best value etc? I'll be staying in Miami but I'll >> be >> mobile. > > I'm not sure there's anyone from the Miami area in this group that has taken > entry level courses from anyone still in the business of offering them. > There are dive shops on every corner, well, almost every corner, down here > and all of them are pretty good. Your best bet is probably to just call > around and find one or more than can accomodate your schedule. > > Having said that, I don't personally favor back to back PADI courses, > particularly Open Water and Advanced. I think it's a good idea to get input > from other agencies and even an even better idea to spend a bit of time > diving between Open Water and Advanced. I think you'll gain more from the > advanced course if you've had time to get comfortable with the equipment and > entry level diving. > > Lee > > I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced, not intended for advanced divers (which is why Padi are trying to re-pitch it as 'Adventures in Diving'). Doing it as soon as possible adds confidence and skill to a new diver and introduces extra depth under supervision. If its not done pretty soon after OW, I've seen plenty of students who NEVER do it - either they fall out of diving completely due to lack of confidence, or they have a chance to get cocky and think they don't need it. |
| 29 Apr 2008 06:35:47 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Blah wote >I think you'll gain more from the advanced course if you've had time to get >comfortable with the equipment and >> entry level diving. > I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced, not intended for > advanced divers (which is why Padi are trying to re-pitch it as > 'Adventures in Diving'). You're entitled to your opinion. If you think taking an Advanced course right after getting out of Open Water will make you an advanced diver, you're going to be dissapointed. It doesn't work. After all these years of telling everyone how safe diving is, I find it interesting that PADI is now pushing the "Adventure" of diving. Diving is not safe, but it's not supposed to be an adventure either. > Doing it as soon as possible adds confidence and skill to a new diver and > introduces extra depth under supervision. If its not done pretty soon > after OW, I've > seen plenty of students who NEVER do it - either they fall out of diving > completely due to lack of confidence, or they have a chance to get cocky > and think they > don't need it. Or they really don't need it. The biggest advantages of PADI's advanced course are 1. Having the card lets you dive to normal recreational depths off boats controlled by PADI shops and 2. It puts more money in PADI's pocket. Lee |
| 29 Apr 2008 13:05:19 |
| Blah |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Lee Bell wrote: > Blah wote > >> I think you'll gain more from the advanced course if you've had time to get >> comfortable with the equipment and >>> entry level diving. > >> I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced, not intended for >> advanced divers (which is why Padi are trying to re-pitch it as >> 'Adventures in Diving'). > > You're entitled to your opinion. If you think taking an Advanced course > right after getting out of Open Water will make you an advanced diver, > you're going to be dissapointed. It doesn't work. I hate to differ - butI teach in the uk. I've taught 42 OW and 16 AOW in the past 4 months alone. Most students go on to join our club - the ones that do the advanced are much safer and confident all rounders than the ones that don't. The ones that do the advanced buy kit and pair up and go and do. The OW ones mostly only dive when staff or others are around. The AOW doesn't make you (nor is it meant to) make you an 'advanced diver' it makes you one little step better than an OW diver. This is why PADI want to rebrand it - it isn't tech diving, it isn't rescue diving , it isn't a massive step - its just a bump up the ladder. > > After all these years of telling everyone how safe diving is, I find it > interesting that PADI is now pushing the "Adventure" of diving. Diving is > not safe, but it's not supposed to be an adventure either. Well what is it supposed to be then? If exploring new dive sites is not an adventure - I don't know what is! > >> Doing it as soon as possible adds confidence and skill to a new diver and >> introduces extra depth under supervision. If its not done pretty soon >> after OW, I've >> seen plenty of students who NEVER do it - either they fall out of diving >> completely due to lack of confidence, or they have a chance to get cocky >> and think they >> don't need it. > > Or they really don't need it. The biggest advantages of PADI's advanced > course are 1. Having the card lets you dive to normal recreational depths > off boats controlled by PADI shops and 2. It puts more money in PADI's > pocket. > Can't argue with that but they also get 1)to think and plan a bit more about whats going to happen on the dive -rather than be led like sheep 2)to learn about multilevel profiles 3)introduction to greater depth in controlled manner 4)better nav skills 5)shown how to use a dry suit and lots more. Perhaps there are lame AOW courses out there, but that is just a function of a bad instructor. > Lee > > |
| 29 Apr 2008 09:10:27 |
| Ed |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> I would stick to Miami and north, avoid the Keys. If ya do have plenty > of time, get yer basic and do some diving around Ft. > Lauderdale/Pompano/Boynton. Get as much experience as possible before yer > advanced, and get yer advanced from a different instructor. > > good luck > esg Undersea sports is my favorite.(SSI and PADI) They do classes, privates and semi-privates. For the classes they don't really cater to the vacation diver because the OW class is over 2 weekends. AOW is only one so that would work for most vacation divers. Privates and semi-privates can be done anytime. To save vacation time, I would suggest getting the pool/classroom done in your home town if available and do a "referal checkout" in FLL. That cuts 70% off the time and allows you to do the ocean work in FLL. 954-564-8661 Ask for Matt. (the owner) |
| 29 Apr 2008 10:01:21 |
| El Stroko Guapo |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Lee Bell wrote: > Blah wote > > >>I think you'll gain more from the advanced course if you've had time to get >>comfortable with the equipment and >> >>>entry level diving. > > >>I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced, not intended for >>advanced divers (which is why Padi are trying to re-pitch it as >>'Adventures in Diving'). > > > You're entitled to your opinion. If you think taking an Advanced course > right after getting out of Open Water will make you an advanced diver, > you're going to be dissapointed. It doesn't work. I gotta go with Lee on this one. If the advanced course made ya an advanced diver, I'd have had my kid do that one first. I had several hundred dives as a PADI Basic Scuba Diver ("...providing fundamentals for limited underwater excursions to approximately 30 feet...") and took the advanced courses as a prerequisite to tech training and requirement (by boats that didn't know me) for wreck diving. Wish I'd done the advanced sooner, maybe at 50 dives, once the basics were instinctive. > > After all these years of telling everyone how safe diving is, I find it > interesting that PADI is now pushing the "Adventure" of diving. Diving is > not safe, but it's not supposed to be an adventure either. But I'll argue with that. Every dive I've ever done has been an adventure, or I wouldn't be doing it still. > > >>Doing it as soon as possible adds confidence and skill to a new diver and >>introduces extra depth under supervision. If its not done pretty soon >>after OW, I've >>seen plenty of students who NEVER do it - either they fall out of diving >>completely due to lack of confidence, or they have a chance to get cocky >>and think they >>don't need it. > > > Or they really don't need it. The biggest advantages of PADI's advanced > course are 1. Having the card lets you dive to normal recreational depths > off boats controlled by PADI shops and 2. It puts more money in PADI's > pocket. > > Lee > > |
| 29 Apr 2008 10:17:19 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> I hate to differ No you don't. You like to differ. That's OK. So do I. > - but I teach in the uk. I've taught 42 OW and 16 AOW in the past 4 months > alone. Big deal. All that means is that you're biased in your own favor. I've been diving for 46 years. I have lots of experience with new and advanced divers. Those that just came out of their second course in a row are the former, almost every time. > The AOW doesn't make you (nor is it meant to) make you an 'advanced diver' > it makes you one little step better than an OW diver. If you had said that before, we would not be disagreeing. What you said before was "I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced . . . " Any diving, including that done under the eye of a good instructor, will make you a better diver. I just think that there are elements of the advanced course that can not be fully appreciated until you're already comfortable with the basics. > This is why PADI want to rebrand it - it isn't tech diving, it isn't > rescue diving , it isn't a massive step - its just a bump up the ladder. Don't get me started. There didn't used to be a ladder. My first card reads "SCUBA." It trained me for everything anticipated of a recreational diver at the time, including decompression, rescue and diving first aid. It did not include nitrox or mixed gases, neither or which was considered recreational at the time. To be honest, I think the courses currently called "Advanced" are nothing more than a way to get more money for teaching the basics, but I still think that those that actually hope to become advanced, do better if they do a bit of diving in between. One step at a time, with competence if not mastery between the steps. Your conditions are a bit different from mine. Your country makes extensive use of a club environment. That's not real common here the States. Here, you either develop on your own, or you don't develop at all. >> After all these years of telling everyone how safe diving is, I find it >> interesting that PADI is now pushing the "Adventure" of diving. Diving >> is >> not safe, but it's not supposed to be an adventure either. > Well what is it supposed to be then? If exploring new dive sites is not an > adventure - I don't know what is! Hunting dangerous game is an adventure. Perhaps sky diving is too. Diving is just enjoyable. >> Or they really don't need it. The biggest advantages of PADI's advanced >> course are 1. Having the card lets you dive to normal recreational depths >> off boats controlled by PADI shops and 2. It puts more money in PADI's >> pocket. >> > Can't argue with that but they also get > 1)to think and plan a bit more about whats going to happen on the > dive -rather than be led like sheep Fair enough. > 2)to learn about multilevel profiles My computer already knows that. Do you teach multi level diving with tables? > 3)introduction to greater depth in controlled manner You're going to have to convince me that 30 meters is a lot different from 20 to sell that one. > 4)better nav skills Somebody's not doing this one very well. Next to buoyancy, I can't think of a single skill adequately demonstrated less by even the most advanced divers. Too much going on to pay attention to where we are, perhaps. > 5)shown how to use a dry suit What's a dry suit. For that matter, what's a wet suit. Real advanced divers dive in warm, clear water. They learned from their mistake the first time they dove in cold, murky water. I'd settle for nothing more than learning good buoyancy skills without thermal protection of any kind. Even that seems to be beyond the scope of most training, no matter what letters the agency uses. > and lots more. Perhaps there are lame AOW courses out there, but that is > > just a function of a bad instructor. No "perhaps to it," but it is more than just the instructor. PADI issues the card and is responsible for the curriculum and the quality of the instruction. If it's lame, it's as much their fault as it is the instructor's. That goes for other agencies as well, but in my experience, PADI seems to be lighter on quality control and heavier on profits than the others. YMMV. Lee |
| 29 Apr 2008 10:20:55 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> But I'll argue with that. Every dive I've ever done has been an adventure, > or I wouldn't be doing it still. For someone that used to drive competitively, I'm surprised to hear you call diving adventurous. My average dive, including the ones you and I have done together, is about as energetic as a nap on the couch, possibly even less energetic. If it's an adventure, I've probably screwed up my planning or execution. Come to think of it, some of my dives have been an adventure. I try not to make the same mistakes twice. Lee |
| 29 Apr 2008 20:09:29 |
| Blah |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Lee Bell wrote: > > Big deal. All that means is that you're biased in your own favor. I've > been diving for 46 years. I have lots of experience with new and advanced > divers. Those that just came out of their second course in a row are the > former, almost every time. > >> The AOW doesn't make you (nor is it meant to) make you an 'advanced diver' >> it makes you one little step better than an OW diver. > > If you had said that before, we would not be disagreeing. What you said > before was "I disagree - the Advanced course is to MAKE you advanced . . . " > Any diving, including that done under the eye of a good instructor, will > make you a better diver. I just think that there are elements of the > advanced course that can not be fully appreciated until you're already > comfortable with the basics. Ok, can't meet anywhere near your years, but I have done a LOT of teaching - without looking it up its like 200 OW, 70 AOW loads of specialities, and plenty right thru to AI. Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but all my students leave OW in pretty good shape - skills and bouyancy A1 . I've not had anyone flunk OW - or leave cos they don't like it - even if it takes 30 mins to do mask remove replace due to their nerves - it get done. (and here over winter we dive in 4-5 degrees C) So they enter AOW just needing tuning and confidence and some extra skills - which is what they get from me. (sorry, own trumpet - and I do know there is a massive range of instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop there are instructors that will very quickly bin students if they can't do something) > >> This is why PADI want to rebrand it - it isn't tech diving, it isn't >> rescue diving , it isn't a massive step - its just a bump up the ladder. > > Don't get me started. There didn't used to be a ladder. My first card > reads "SCUBA." It trained me for everything anticipated of a recreational > diver at the time, including decompression, rescue and diving first aid. It > did not include nitrox or mixed gases, neither or which was considered > recreational at the time. To be honest, I think the courses currently > called "Advanced" are nothing more than a way to get more money for teaching > the basics, but I still think that those that actually hope to become > advanced, do better if they do a bit of diving in between. One step at a > time, with competence if not mastery between the steps. > Mmm, I see you point - but Padi is Padi because is makes it simple little building blocks - you get what you pay for. Here the main alternative is BSAC - which is a free club and you do little bits when the gods above allow. > >> 2)to learn about multilevel profiles > > My computer already knows that. Do you teach multi level diving with > tables? With the wheel and with an intro into computers (cue sales pitch for dive computer ;-) ) > >> 3)introduction to greater depth in controlled manner > > You're going to have to convince me that 30 meters is a lot different from > 20 to sell that one. We train in here: http://www.stoneycove.com/(36m deep quarry) Winter 4C, vis 8m Summer 17c , vis 3m Its shockingly poor viz and temp at 30m anytime of the year. > >> 4)better nav skills > > Somebody's not doing this one very well. Next to buoyancy, I can't think of > a single skill adequately demonstrated less by even the most advanced > divers. Too much going on to pay attention to where we are, perhaps. Not mine. And the Padi OW requires just a rough reciprocal (don't worry about bouyancy, instructor will do) The AOW requires recip, square, natural nav - my students are MUCH more proficient afterwards. > >> 5)shown how to use a dry suit > > What's a dry suit. For that matter, what's a wet suit. Real advanced > divers dive in warm, clear water. They learned from their mistake the first > time they dove in cold, murky water. Dry suits require forgetting all about bcd for bouyancy and going places noone in their right mind would (see link above ;-) ) > > I'd settle for nothing more than learning good buoyancy skills without > thermal protection of any kind. Even that seems to be beyond the scope of > most training, no matter what letters the agency uses. > >> and lots more. Perhaps there are lame AOW courses out there, but that is > >> just a function of a bad instructor. > > No "perhaps to it," but it is more than just the instructor. PADI issues > the card and is responsible for the curriculum and the quality of the > instruction. If it's lame, it's as much their fault as it is the > instructor's. That goes for other agencies as well, but in my experience, > PADI seems to be lighter on quality control and heavier on profits than the > others. YMMV. You got me there - I follow the curriculum and get a 30-40 percent return rate from students - so do colleagues and get 5%. I think its because PADI expect the dive shop to kick ass for poor retention, only kick ass themselves for safety violations. > > Lee > > |
| 30 Apr 2008 06:52:43 |
| Perezoso |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> >> 2)to learn about multilevel profiles > > My computer already knows that. Do you teach multi level diving > with tables? > And your brain too? |
| 29 Apr 2008 18:28:35 |
| dazed and confuzzed |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Lee Bell wrote: >>But I'll argue with that. Every dive I've ever done has been an adventure, >>or I wouldn't be doing it still. > > > For someone that used to drive competitively, I'm surprised to hear you call > diving adventurous. My average dive, including the ones you and I have done > together, is about as energetic as a nap on the couch, possibly even less > energetic. If it's an adventure, I've probably screwed up my planning or > execution. > > Come to think of it, some of my dives have been an adventure. I try not to > make the same mistakes twice. > > Lee > > Adventure is a result of poor planning. -- “TANSTAAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ America: Ironically, the safest place to be anti-American. ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 |
| 29 Apr 2008 20:11:26 |
| Douglas W. Popeye Frederick |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"dazed and confuzzed" <dedmann@comcast_remove.net > wrote in message news:JrGdnWwsHpS_MorVnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@comcast.com... > Lee Bell wrote: > >>>But I'll argue with that. Every dive I've ever done has been an >>>adventure, or I wouldn't be doing it still. >> >> >> For someone that used to drive competitively, I'm surprised to hear you >> call diving adventurous. My average dive, including the ones you and I >> have done together, is about as energetic as a nap on the couch, possibly >> even less energetic. If it's an adventure, I've probably screwed up my >> planning or execution. >> >> Come to think of it, some of my dives have been an adventure. I try not >> to make the same mistakes twice. >> >> Lee > > Adventure is a result of poor planning. Hmmmm. Among many dives, we searched a quarry for weeks for a dead guy. That was pretty adventurous. I dive in more than a few places where I risk my life just -getting in- the water (like diving the Little River at flood stage, or sneak diving posted quarries and zinc mines.). In fact, any dive involving George Horn springs to mind, where the standard pre-dive briefing consists of "get in your gear and get in the water before the cops get here..."... :-) -- -- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com |
| 29 Apr 2008 18:43:39 |
| -hh |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Pop...@finalprotectivefire.com > wrote: > > =A0 In fact, any dive involving George Horn springs to mind, where the > standard pre-dive briefing consists of =A0"get in your gear and get in the= > water before the cops get here..."... > > :-) Sea Horses!!! ;-) -hh |
| 30 Apr 2008 14:48:29 |
| Kristian Domke |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Blah wrote: > > I've not had anyone > flunk OW - or leave cos they don't like it - even if it takes 30 mins to > do mask remove replace due to their nerves - it get done. (and here over > winter we dive in 4-5 degrees C) Dangerous claim. I am doing my CMAS* at the moment, and we have someone in the group who has once tried PADI. It ended in damaging her eardrum because of the dive instructor urging her downward despite her beeing not able to equalize. Now, 2 or 3 years later she does her CMAS* with the German Recreational Diving Association (VDST). I start to think, if someone brags about "I've not have anyone flunk..." Just my 0.02$ Kristian |
| 30 Apr 2008 06:25:40 |
| -hh |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Blah <b...@microsoft.com > wrote: > > Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but > all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". > ... and I do know there is a massive=A0range of > instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop > there are instructors that will very quickly > bin students if they can't do something) PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. > >> This is why PADI want to rebrand it - it > >> isn't tech diving, it isn't rescue diving, > >> it isn't a massive step - its just a bump > >> up the ladder. > > > Don't get me started. =A0There didn't used > > to be a ladder. =A0My first card reads "SCUBA." > >=A0It trained me for everything anticipated of > > a recreational diver at the time, including > > decompression... Same here, and my training wasn't as ancient as Lee's. IIRC, the "Marketing Machine" didn't really kick into gear until the late 1980s, probably about the time that buddy breathing was eliminated from basic training. > >=A0To be honest, I think the courses currently called > > "Advanced" are nothing more than a way to get more > > money for teaching the basics, but I still think > > that those that actually hope to become advanced, > > do better if they do a bit of diving in between. =A0 > > Mmm, I see you point - but Padi is Padi because is > makes it simple little building blocks - you get > what you pay for. YMMV, but a lot of PADI's optional classes are very poor value for what you get, particularly when "simply diving" with a mentor accomplishes the same thing effectively for free. Personally, I probably had a couple of hundred dives before I learned that PADI offered a "Boat Diver" specialty. IMNSHO, PADI operates on the exploitive "Fool and His Money are Soon Parted" principle, as a student seeking training advice is by definition expected to be an uninformed consumer. > >> 2)to learn about multilevel profiles > > > My computer already knows that. =A0Do you teach > > multi level diving with tables? > > With the wheel and with an intro into computers > (cue sales pitch for dive computer ;-) =A0) Ah, but Lee said with Tables, not the Wheel. There have been techniques developed ... IIRC, Dave Duis (or was it Dave Waller?) published one around 15-20 years ago. > >> 3)introduction to greater depth in controlled manner > > > You're going to have to convince me that 30 meters > > is a lot different from 20 to sell that one. > > We train in here:http://www.stoneycove.com/(36mdeep quarry) Fair enough, but you missed the point. The issue here was that current OW-I training in the USA carries a "max depth" disclaimer, despite the fact that there's very little real physiologically-based significance. Similarly, the PADI Encyclopedia reportedly has claimed that the scientific reason for their 130fsw rule (max for AOW) is because the PPO2 on air works out to 1.0 Unfortunately, this is an example of revisionist history that ignores the basis for why the US Navy actually selected 130fsw: it was predominantly due to equipment limitations of the day, not the Oxygen Clock. > > No "perhaps to it," but it is more than just the > > instructor. =A0PADI issues the card and is responsible > > for the curriculum and the quality of the instruction. > >=A0If it's lame, it's as much their fault as it is the > > instructor's. =A0That goes for other agencies as well, > > but in my experience, PADI seems to be lighter on > > quality control and heavier on profits than the > > others. =A0YMMV. > > You got me there - I follow the curriculum... =2E..and being in a non-profit "club" environment in BSAC, making a profit isn't your priority. Thus, you're able to work to different functional definition of what constitutes a training "success." -hh |
| 30 Apr 2008 14:54:53 |
| Blah |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Kristian Domke wrote: > Blah wrote: >> >> I've not had anyone flunk OW - or leave cos they don't like it - even >> if it takes 30 mins to do mask remove replace due to their nerves - it >> get done. (and here over winter we dive in 4-5 degrees C) > > > Dangerous claim. I am doing my CMAS* at the moment, and we have someone > in the group who has once tried PADI. It ended in damaging her eardrum > because of the dive instructor urging her downward despite her beeing > not able to equalize. Now, 2 or 3 years later she does her CMAS* with > the German Recreational Diving Association (VDST). > > I start to think, if someone brags about "I've not have anyone flunk..." > > Just my 0.02$ > > Kristian Perhaps I should have expanded it to 'nobody flunks, no matter how many dives, trips and times in the water are required' - if its an ear problem they get out and come another day! if its a skills issue, we redo until they are proficient. And despite it being PADI, they don't pay for it! Ie if someone fails 2 out of 5 dives for AOW, they get to do another day of two dives ad infinitum until they pass. We've got such a volume of OW and AOW going through that the cost of a repeat session is negligible to us - so there is no pressure to get them thru quickly at all costs - rather a 'we have the resources, lets make sure they get there however much we have to put into it' So students can just drop back on to the following weeks course and do over. |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:02:12 |
| mat.voss |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Hello Kristian, let me remind you that we do _not_ have anything like "recreation" in our 4 letters, and "sport" is none such. Matthias Kristian Domke wrote: > Blah wrote: > >> >> I've not had anyone flunk OW - or leave cos they don't like it - even >> if it takes 30 mins to do mask remove replace due to their nerves - it >> get done. (and here over winter we dive in 4-5 degrees C) > > > > Dangerous claim. I am doing my CMAS* at the moment, and we have someone > in the group who has once tried PADI. It ended in damaging her eardrum > because of the dive instructor urging her downward despite her beeing > not able to equalize. Now, 2 or 3 years later she does her CMAS* with > the German Recreational Diving Association (VDST). > > I start to think, if someone brags about "I've not have anyone flunk..." > > Just my 0.02$ > > Kristian |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:32:10 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> Adventure is a result of poor planning. Sometimes good planning, but not usually. |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:34:11 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
>> Adventure is a result of poor planning. > > Hmmmm. > > Among many dives, we searched a quarry for weeks for a dead guy. > > That was pretty adventurous. > > I dive in more than a few places where I risk my life just -getting in- > the water (like diving the Little River at flood stage, or sneak diving > posted quarries and zinc mines.). > > In fact, any dive involving George Horn springs to mind, where the > standard pre-dive briefing consists of "get in your gear and get in the > water before the cops get here..."... > > :-) You make my most recent point well. Sometimes, diving is an adventure, but only when I plan for it to be. To the best of my knowledge, PADI rules are so stringent that I can't imagine one of their authorized dives meeting my, or your, definition of adventure. Lee |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:47:36 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but all my students leave OW in > pretty good shape - skills and bouyancy. No maybe to it. You're not like the average instructor, in any agency. god bless you for doing a better job. > So they enter AOW just needing tuning and confidence and some extra > skills - which is what they get from me. (sorry, own trumpet - and I do > know there is a massive range of instructor ability in Padi - in my own > shop there are instructors that will very quickly bin students if they > can't do something) I have a lot less problem with an instructor that will fail a student than I do with one that will pass one that can't reliably perform an eseential skill. Note, I'm not suggesting you are either, but there are lots of certified divers that may have cleared their mask once, but can't do it again. > Mmm, I see you point - but Padi is Padi because is makes it simple little > building blocks - you get what you pay for. Here the main alternative is > BSAC - which is a free club and you do little bits when the gods above > allow. Understood. My first course was YMCA, in 1962. No card issued. My second one was NAUI, in 1969. That's the card that reads "SCUBA." I have a lot of fun showing it to kids in dive shops that are not as old as the card. Everything since has been SSI except my TDI Nitrox course. I have a friend that's an SSI instructor. My wife's initial card is PADI. I sat through her class with her, back in 1991, and it wasn't bad. As you might imagine, I taught her more almost immediately. She has her own, built in club, me. When I moved on to more technical diving, she quit. It's a shame, and it's my fault. I would have had more fun sticking with her than diving deeper or longer. > With the wheel and with an intro into computers (cue sales pitch for dive > computer ;-) ) I have a wheel and actually used it once or twice. It did not take much of a pitch for computers to get me to upgrade. > We train in here: > http://www.stoneycove.com/(36m deep quarry) > Winter 4C, vis 8m > Summer 17c , vis 3m > Its shockingly poor viz and temp at 30m anytime of the year. I'm familiar with Stoney Cove. I'm also active on UKRS, or was when it was still an active forum. I heard all about Soney Cove. My UK friends, who I've never met, invited me over to dive Stoney with them. Somehow I don't think I'm going to travel all the way to Europe just to dive in a cold, dark quarry. I'm not sure deep in Stoney Cove is different from shallow in Stoney Cove. If you can't see, depth tends to be less relevant. > Dry suits require forgetting all about bcd for bouyancy and going places > noone in their right mind would (see link above ;-) ) We certainly agree on this one. > You got me there - I follow the curriculum and get a 30-40 percent return > rate from students - so do colleagues and get 5%. > I think its because PADI expect the dive shop to kick ass for poor > retention, only kick ass themselves for safety violations. Interestingly, I found it to be kind of the opposite here. I've seen lots of instances of criticism from PADI Corporate for lost students, but very few for unsafe instructors. Of course, I'm judging safe by my standards, which usually exceed PADI's by a substantial margin. Then again, much of my diving over the years has been beyond anything PADI would have recommended at the time. Lee |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:49:17 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
> Perhaps I should have expanded it to 'nobody flunks, no matter how many > dives, trips and times in the water are required' - if its an ear problem > they get out and come another day! if its a skills issue, we redo until > they are proficient. That is a standard that's not often enforced. Good for you. Lee |
| 30 Apr 2008 18:51:42 |
| Lee Bell |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Perezoso wrote >>> 2)to learn about multilevel profiles >> >> My computer already knows that. Do you teach multi level diving with >> tables? >> > > And your brain too? I live and have spent most of my life diving in Florida, the Bahamas and the Caribbean, where multi level diving is the rule rather than the exception. I bought my first computer sometime after 1991. My brain is OK with multilevel diving, but it's easier with a computer, much easier. Lee |
| 01 May 2008 14:41:58 |
| dechucka |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com > wrote in message news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... Blah <b...@microsoft.com > wrote: > > Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but > all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". > ... and I do know there is a massive range of > instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop > there are instructors that will very quickly > bin students if they can't do something) PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. |
| 01 May 2008 03:05:40 |
| Douglas W. Popeye Frederick |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com > wrote in message news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message > news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >> >> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... > > In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". > >> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >> there are instructors that will very quickly >> bin students if they can't do something) > > PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that > proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. > > > > > Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience with > want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors who I > have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to students > and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an extra pool > session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or drop out. I've > met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. -- -- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com |
| 01 May 2008 17:32:56 |
| dechucka |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com > wrote in message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... > "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message > news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message >> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >>> >>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... >> >> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". >> >>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >>> there are instructors that will very quickly >>> bin students if they can't do something) >> >> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. >> >> >> >> >> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience >> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors >> who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to >> students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an >> extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or >> drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. > > Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. of course NOT MORON |
| 01 May 2008 03:45:33 |
| Douglas W. Popeye Frederick |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com > wrote in message news:48197227$0$26561$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in > message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... >> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>> >>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message >>> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >>>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... >>> >>> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". >>> >>>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >>>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >>>> there are instructors that will very quickly >>>> bin students if they can't do something) >>> >>> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >>> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience >>> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors >>> who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to >>> students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an >>> extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or >>> drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. >> >> Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. > > of course NOT > > > MORON Hey, Futile Dave. Psssst. Here's a picture of my truck: http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 -- -- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com |
| 01 May 2008 17:55:54 |
| dechucka |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com > wrote in message news:COGdnc69cOC96ITVnZ2dnUVZ_r6rnZ2d@supernews.com... > "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message > news:48197227$0$26561$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in >> message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... >>> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>>> >>>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message >>>> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >>>>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... >>>> >>>> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". >>>> >>>>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >>>>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >>>>> there are instructors that will very quickly >>>>> bin students if they can't do something) >>>> >>>> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >>>> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience >>>> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors >>>> who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to >>>> students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an >>>> extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or >>>> drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. >>> >>> Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. >> >> of course NOT >> >> >> MORON > > Hey, Futile Dave. > > Psssst. > > Here's a picture of my truck: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 you drive a bridge? MORON |
| 01 May 2008 05:29:28 |
| Douglas W. Popeye Frederick |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com > wrote in message news:48197788$0$26598$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in > message news:COGdnc69cOC96ITVnZ2dnUVZ_r6rnZ2d@supernews.com... >> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:48197227$0$26561$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>> >>> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote >>> in message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... >>>> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>>>> >>>>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >>>>>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... >>>>> >>>>> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". >>>>> >>>>>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >>>>>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >>>>>> there are instructors that will very quickly >>>>>> bin students if they can't do something) >>>>> >>>>> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >>>>> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience >>>>> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors >>>>> who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to >>>>> students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an >>>>> extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or >>>>> drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. >>>> >>>> Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. >>> >>> of course NOT >>> >>> >>> MORON >> >> Hey, Futile Dave. >> >> Psssst. >> >> Here's a picture of my truck: >> http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 > > you drive a bridge? > > MORON WOW. WOW. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. FUTILE DAVE IS STUPID. Maybe Futile John can help you out. You're a scary dude. Does Cathy dress you in the morning? -- -- A skilled, armed man lives on a plane of security and contentment different from that of others. The man who cannot cut it, envies, fears and sometimes hates the man who can. -Cooper Popeye/ www.finalprotectivefire.com |
| 01 May 2008 04:46:00 |
| Grumman-581 |
| Re: Florida PADI |
On Thu, 01 May 2008 03:45:33 -0400, Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick wrote: > Here's a picture of my truck: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 Better lighting, but the other photos had more resolution / detail... -- See NNTP header field "X-Real-Email-Address" to reply by email. |
| 01 May 2008 04:02:11 |
| -hh |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com > wrote: > "-hh" <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote: >> >> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. =A0Students that >> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. > > Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience with= > want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors who I ha= ve > had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to students and sa= y > practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an extra pool session or = OW > dive so be it, most students will qualify or drop out. I've met many crapp= y > DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. PADI has always been a for-profit, and this includes all worldwide divisions. And you very well may have seen that in your local market that the "pitch" given to Students does provide for extra training time ... particularly when the payoff is another customer to a diveshop that could use the business. However, after you've been around for a few decades, you're more likely to make friends who have worked in various parts of the overall organization. For example, an Instructor who was one of their Quality Assurance (QA) investigators who found that their official QA recommendation to expel a demonstrated unsafe Instructor that they had investigated was ignored, and the violator re-instated by Corporate. Now if safety was their first priority, how could this ever occur? Yes, that's a rhetorical question. FWIW, if you get a good opportunity to "off the record" talk with a really good dive instructor, ask them what they think of the Training Standards policy for maximum Student:Instructor ratio ... including if they follow it, or if they personally follow a more strict standard. One instructor I know will do a max of 2:1. -hh |
| 01 May 2008 22:27:44 |
| dechucka |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com > wrote in message news:evGdndue7cbnEITVnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@supernews.com... > "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message > news:48197788$0$26598$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >> >> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in >> message news:COGdnc69cOC96ITVnZ2dnUVZ_r6rnZ2d@supernews.com... >>> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:48197227$0$26561$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>>> >>>> "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote >>>> in message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... >>>>> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... >>>>>> >>>>>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but >>>>>>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... >>>>>> >>>>>> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". >>>>>> >>>>>>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of >>>>>>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop >>>>>>> there are instructors that will very quickly >>>>>>> bin students if they can't do something) >>>>>> >>>>>> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >>>>>> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience >>>>>> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to >>>>>> Instructors who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say >>>>>> come back to students and say practice this so we can qualify you and >>>>>> if takes an extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students >>>>>> will qualify or drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs >>>>>> in Aus. >>>>> >>>>> Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. >>>> >>>> of course NOT >>>> >>>> >>>> MORON >>> >>> Hey, Futile Dave. >>> >>> Psssst. >>> >>> Here's a picture of my truck: >>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 >> >> you drive a bridge? >> >> MORON > > WOW. > > WOW. > > STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. > > FUTILE DAVE IS STUPID. > > Maybe Futile John can help you out. > > You're a scary dude. > > Does Cathy dress you in the morning? that's her name don't overuse it. No she prefers me au natural, Is that the bridge you drive or live under? Troll by nature troll be living accommodation |
| 01 May 2008 22:35:55 |
| dechucka |
| Re: Florida PADI |
"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com > wrote in message news:a5279539-fcd9-4cda-8492-93656d8161f6@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com... "dechucka" <dechu...@vomithotmail.com > wrote: > "-hh" <recscuba_goo...@huntzinger.com> wrote: >> >> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that >> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. > > Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience with > want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors who I > have > had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to students and > say > practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an extra pool session or > OW > dive so be it, most students will qualify or drop out. I've met many > crappy > DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. PADI has always been a for-profit, and this includes all worldwide divisions. And you very well may have seen that in your local market that the "pitch" given to Students does provide for extra training time ... particularly when the payoff is another customer to a diveshop that could use the business. However, after you've been around for a few decades, you're more likely to make friends who have worked in various parts of the overall organization. For example, an Instructor who was one of their Quality Assurance (QA) investigators who found that their official QA recommendation to expel a demonstrated unsafe Instructor that they had investigated was ignored, and the violator re-instated by Corporate. Now if safety was their first priority, how could this ever occur? Yes, that's a rhetorical question. FWIW, if you get a good opportunity to "off the record" talk with a really good dive instructor, ask them what they think of the Training Standards policy for maximum Student:Instructor ratio ... including if they follow it, or if they personally follow a more strict standard. One instructor I know will do a max of 2:1. Choose your instructor not the card is my advice. IN my experience the PADI instruters I know will offer the extra training to get people up to standard, not a freebie boat dive but at least extra pool sessions. Maybe it is just the dive shops that I have been associated with but that is my experience. Of course the dive shops are interested in you doing extra courses, joining their "Club" Hey even buying gear from them but in my experience that is true of all the major certifiers -hh |
| 01 May 2008 22:41:24 |
| Re: Florida PADI |
In article <COGdnc69cOC96ITVnZ2dnUVZ_r6rnZ2d@supernews.com >, Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com says... > "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message > news:48197227$0$26561$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > > > > "Douglas W. "Popeye" Frederick" <Popeye@finalprotectivefire.com> wrote in > > message news:h8udnT6u8fhV9oTVnZ2dnUVZ_sOrnZ2d@supernews.com... > >> "dechucka" <dechucka@vomithotmail.com> wrote in message > >> news:48194a15$0$26564$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > >>> > >>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message > >>> news:cc2d2ad7-1d6a-4357-a0b6-edda78a7e073@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > >>> Blah <b...@microsoft.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Maybe I'm not like the average instructor but > >>>> all my students leave OW in pretty good shape... > >>> > >>> In comparison to the USA's training system, you're not "Average". > >>> > >>>> ... and I do know there is a massive range of > >>>> instructor ability in Padi - in my own shop > >>>> there are instructors that will very quickly > >>>> bin students if they can't do something) > >>> > >>> PADI has always been a for-profit corporation. Students that > >>> proverbially "cost more" simply aren't as profitable. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Maybe in the US but in Aus the PADI instructors I have had experience > >>> with want to end up with safe divers ( and this applies to Instructors > >>> who I have had dealings with at resorts ). They will say come back to > >>> students and say practice this so we can qualify you and if takes an > >>> extra pool session or OW dive so be it, most students will qualify or > >>> drop out. I've met many crappy DMs but few crappy DIs in Aus. > >> > >> Nobody believes anything you say here- you're too stupid. > > > > of course NOT > > > > > > MORON > > Hey, Futile Dave. > > Psssst. > > Here's a picture of my truck: > http://picasaweb.google.com/Popeye8762/Alaska07a/photo#5081930978033907522 > and thus you win "The Laugh of the Day Award" !! > |
| 02 May 2008 09:09:27 |
| Kristian Domke |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Blah schrieb: > Kristian Domke wrote: >> I start to think, if someone brags about "I've not have anyone flunk..." >> >> Just my 0.02$ >> >> Kristian > > Perhaps I should have expanded it to 'nobody flunks, no matter how many > dives, trips and times in the water are required' - if its an ear > problem they get out and come another day! if its a skills issue, we > redo until they are proficient. And despite it being PADI, they don't > pay for it! Ie if someone fails 2 out of 5 dives for AOW, they get to do > another day of two dives ad infinitum until they pass. > I had hoped so, because of your (small) example with the 30min mask excercise, but I could not let it stay that way. > We've got such a volume of OW and AOW going through that the cost of a > repeat session is negligible to us - so there is no pressure to get them > thru quickly at all costs - rather a 'we have the resources, lets make > sure they get there however much we have to put into it' > So students can just drop back on to the following weeks course and do > over. I am afraid there are not many bases seeing it that way! If it is true (And I believe your claim!) I hope youre quality will ensure your customers to return Kristian |
| 02 May 2008 09:16:42 |
| Kristian Domke |
| Re: Florida PADI |
mat.voss schrieb: > Hello Kristian, > > let me remind you that we do _not_ have anything like "recreation" in > our 4 letters, and "sport" is none such. > Lets say, some things are lost in translation. To be honest, the difference of recreational diving to sports diving is not clear to me, and a small look at google and wikipedia does not enlighten me. Maybe someone here could. But no offense meant, to be sure! Kristian |
| 02 May 2008 09:50:19 |
| El Stroko Guapo |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Kristian Domke wrote: > mat.voss schrieb: > >>Hello Kristian, >> >>let me remind you that we do _not_ have anything like "recreation" in >>our 4 letters, and "sport" is none such. >> > > > Lets say, some things are lost in translation. > > To be honest, the difference of recreational diving to sports diving is > not clear to me, and a small look at google and wikipedia does not > enlighten me. Maybe someone here could. > > But no offense meant, to be sure! > > Kristian Back in the oldie days, all non professional diving was sport diving. Caves, wrecks, deep, shallow, reefs, ice, collecting, hunting - all were "sport" diving. Then came the age of specialty certifications, most notably caving and tech, separating these activities out of the "sport" diving realm. Meanwhile smoking, deep air, and unprotected sex were banned by the social engineers. "Recreational" diving refers to the stuff left over; shallow, unchallenging, unskilled, riskless activities practiced erratically by undedicated dabblers. There are a few sport divers here but, as its name states, most on this ng are true recreational divers. esg |
| 04 May 2008 22:33:29 |
| Dan Bracuk |
| Re: Florida PADI |
El Stroko Guapo <omgray@earthlink.net > pounded away at his keyboard resulting in: :"Recreational" diving refers to the stuff left over; shallow, :unchallenging, unskilled, riskless activities practiced erratically by :undedicated dabblers. Sounds like fun. Is that available from Florida PADI Dive Shops? Dan Bracuk Never use a big word when a diminutive one will do. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.comThe #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
| 05 May 2008 08:11:09 |
| El Stroko Guapo |
| Re: Florida PADI |
Dan Bracuk wrote: > El Stroko Guapo <omgray@earthlink.net> pounded away at his keyboard > resulting in: > > :"Recreational" diving refers to the stuff left over; shallow, > :unchallenging, unskilled, riskless activities practiced erratically by > :undedicated dabblers. > > Sounds like fun. Is that available from Florida PADI Dive Shops? Available from all agencies world wide. esg |