10 Aug 2004 02:03:51
Mario
water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Hello,

Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
possible.

Thanks,

Mario


10 Aug 2004 10:45:14
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Mario wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

It depends upon the speed of the craft that one falls from ... or at
least it seems that way ...

Bart F.




10 Aug 2004 10:49:47
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Mario wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)

The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
a fresh water lake.

Bart F.



10 Aug 2004 11:09:05
Lee Bell
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

"nobody" <anyone@home.net > wrote

> > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > possible.

> On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
> you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
> minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)

No need to clarify. The question was pretty clear to start. No need to
overcomplicate.

> The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
> and pressure, no matter the location.

Not in the generally used sense of the word water.

>Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you
need more weight in the ocean vs.
> a fresh water lake.

Ummm, no. You've got it backwards. The saltier the water, the higher the
density. That is why you need more weight in the ocean vs a fresh water
lake.

Lee




10 Aug 2004 07:03:25
Joe English
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?



nobody wrote:

> Mario wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>> possible.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mario
>
>
> On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
> you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
> minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>
> The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
> and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
> the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
> a fresh water lake.
>
> Bart F.
>
Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density?



10 Aug 2004 12:20:52
TonyH
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"nobody" <anyone@home.net > wrote in message
news:fL1Sc.52955$zc4.22293459@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Mario wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > possible.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
> On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
> you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
> minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>
> The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
> and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
> the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
> a fresh water lake.

I think you've got that arse about face. The saltier(!), or more correctly
the higher the salinity or salt content, i.e. increasing Kg NaCl/Litres of
H20, the DENSER the solution, therefore the greater the buoyancy, so
requiring MORE ballast (Lead) not less.

In general, Salinity is a variable, dependent upon several factors, mainly:
Depth of sea, Rock formations of sea-bed & coastline, average ambient
temperature (evaporation issues), where the sea is 'fed' from (freshwater
mountain rivers / streams, underground water table and what rocks the water
passes through, etc.)

Salinity is not a constant, but can be averaged, however, it is highly
variable, especially near a coastline and at the surface due to factors such
as freshwater estuaries (often shown by a visible salocline with a
'shimmering' at the boundary or interface of the two differing densities of
water, and also from surface evaporation.

In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).


>
> Bart F.
>




10 Aug 2004 13:22:14
Dillon Pyron
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:45:14 GMT, nobody <anyone@home.net > wrote:

>Mario wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>> possible.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mario
>
>It depends upon the speed of the craft that one falls from ... or at
>least it seems that way ...
>
>Bart F.
>
Altitude counts for a little, too.

--
dillon

When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark
and the horse's name was Bob.


10 Aug 2004 13:53:48
mike gray
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Mario wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
currents of differing temperature and salinity.

But a pint's a pound, the world around.



10 Aug 2004 09:58:06
bullshark
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

On 10 Aug 2004 02:03:51 -0700, marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote:

>Hello,
>
>Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>possible.

Salinity can be converted to density if you know temperature and pressure
here:

http://www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/Utilities/density.html

Here you can find salinity for various regions:

http://aquarius.gsfc.nasa.gov/overview-sss.html

Average is considered ~35 ppt

safe diving,

bullshark



10 Aug 2004 14:58:40
CAS
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

> But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>

Not here it bloody isn't - I got robbed of three quid for a pint of Stella
not so long ago...

;-)

CAS




11 Aug 2004 00:12:50
Gary R. Schmidt
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

mike gray wrote:

> Mario wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>> possible.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mario
>
>
> "Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
> currents of differing temperature and salinity.
>
> But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>
Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around."

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries


10 Aug 2004 10:27:32
bullshark
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:53:48 GMT, mike gray <scrubadub@att.net > wrote:
>But a pint's a pound, the world around.

Except in the USA where we have two different standards for 'pint'.

safe diving,

bullshark

Did you dive last weekend? The vis sucked from DelRay to Lynns.


10 Aug 2004 10:28:31
bullshark
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:12:50 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org > wrote:

>mike gray wrote:
>> But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>>
>Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around."

Only if it's distilled water.

safe diving,

bullshark



10 Aug 2004 15:04:59
Chris Guynn
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"nobody" <anyone@home.net > wrote in message
news:fL1Sc.52955$zc4.22293459@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Mario wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > possible.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
> On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
> you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
> minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>
> The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
> and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
> the lower the density.

Isn't that backwards? By adding weight (lead), you are increasing your
density so that you will sink more easily. Isn't this because saltwater is
more dense than freshwater?

> That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
> a fresh water lake.
>
> Bart F.
>




10 Aug 2004 15:20:36
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

That should teach me to type at 6:30 in the morning. Thanks for
correcting my blooper, Lee. And I minored in Coastal Zone Ecology ...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Bart

Lee Bell wrote:
> "nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote
>
>
>>>Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>>>mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>>>possible.
>
>
>>On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
>>you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
>>minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>
>
> No need to clarify. The question was pretty clear to start. No need to
> overcomplicate.
>
>
>>The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
>>and pressure, no matter the location.
>
>
> Not in the generally used sense of the word water.
>
>
>>Generally, the saltier the water, the lower the density. That's why you
>
> need more weight in the ocean vs.
>
>>a fresh water lake.
>
>
> Ummm, no. You've got it backwards. The saltier the water, the higher the
> density. That is why you need more weight in the ocean vs a fresh water
> lake.
>
> Lee
>
>



10 Aug 2004 15:21:17
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Yeah. I was asleep.

Joe English wrote:

>
>
> nobody wrote:
>
>> Mario wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Mario
>>
>>
>>
>> On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
>> you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
>> minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>>
>> The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
>> and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the
>> water, the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the
>> ocean vs. a fresh water lake.
>>
>> Bart F.
>>
> Bart - would not that be the other way around. More salt, more density?
>



10 Aug 2004 15:40:53
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing)

Chris Guynn wrote:

> "nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
> news:fL1Sc.52955$zc4.22293459@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
>>Mario wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>>>mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>>>possible.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Mario
>>
>>On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
>>you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
>>minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>>
>>The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
>>and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
>>the lower the density.
>
>
> Isn't that backwards? By adding weight (lead), you are increasing your
> density so that you will sink more easily. Isn't this because saltwater is
> more dense than freshwater?
>
>
>>That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
>>a fresh water lake.
>>
>>Bart F.
>>
>
>
>



10 Aug 2004 15:41:42
mike gray
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

> mike gray wrote:
>
>> Mario wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Mario
>>
>>
>> "Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
>> currents of differing temperature and salinity.
>>
>> But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>>
> Nah, it's "A litre's a kilogram, the world around."

Naw, that doesn't even rhyme.

All good scientific principles rhyme!



10 Aug 2004 15:43:42
Chris Guynn
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"nobody" <anyone@home.net > wrote in message
news:906Sc.53443$zc4.22982182@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Yup. Sorry folks!! (cringing from well earned lashing)

Sorry for the extra punishment. If i had realized that this had already
been pointed out I would have kept my comments to myself.

<plus, apologies to Popeye for apologizing... doh >




10 Aug 2004 16:06:35
nobody
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?



TonyH wrote:

> "nobody" <anyone@home.net> wrote in message
> news:fL1Sc.52955$zc4.22293459@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
>>Mario wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>>>mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>>>possible.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Mario
>>
>>On a more serious note, you need to clarify your question slightly. Do
>>you want the density of the water or the solution (ie. water, salt,
>>minerals, fish piss, algae, etc. etc.?)
>>
>>The water, by definition, is the same density for the same temperature
>>and pressure, no matter the location. Generally, the saltier the water,
>>the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
>>a fresh water lake.
>
>
> I think you've got that arse about face. The saltier(!), or more correctly
> the higher the salinity or salt content, i.e. increasing Kg NaCl/Litres of
> H20, the DENSER the solution, therefore the greater the buoyancy, so
> requiring MORE ballast (Lead) not less.
>
> In general, Salinity is a variable, dependent upon several factors, mainly:
> Depth of sea, Rock formations of sea-bed & coastline, average ambient
> temperature (evaporation issues), where the sea is 'fed' from (freshwater
> mountain rivers / streams, underground water table and what rocks the water
> passes through, etc.)
>
> Salinity is not a constant, but can be averaged, however, it is highly
> variable, especially near a coastline and at the surface due to factors such
> as freshwater estuaries (often shown by a visible salocline with a
> 'shimmering' at the boundary or interface of the two differing densities of
> water, and also from surface evaporation.
>
> In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
> most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).

Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem
... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with
warmer water near the surface, the amount of salt held in solution is
greater, ie. saltier, and therefore denser. Unless there is a lot of
mixing, this is usually the case. So, if one were able to put, say, a
three mile deep vertical pipe, with the upper end just out of the water,
and then apply suction to the top to get the flow going upwards, less
dense water would be in the tube. And thus, the water would flow up and
out of the tube, in theory, forever, with no external energy applied to
the system save the difference in pressure between the external water
and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way,
such as friction. But it's an interesting concept.

FWIW,

Bart F.



10 Aug 2004 16:52:40
Anders Arnholm
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

TonyH <tony@samesamediving.com > skriver:
> In addition to salinity water temperature affects it's density, as water is
> most dense at 4 degrees Celsius (39.2 Fahrenheit).

To be even vorse the desity and temperature curve differes with the
salinity of the water. +4C is for freash water. Salty water have it's
maximun a bit lower depending on the salinity of the water.

/ Balp
--
http://anders.arnholm.nu/ Keep on Balping


10 Aug 2004 19:15:48
Peter R Cook
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

In message <Mr4Sc.422187$Gx4.279269@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
mike gray <scrubadub@att.net > writes
>Mario wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
>> possible.
>> Thanks,
>> Mario
>
>"Average" is not relevant in the Carib. We have too many layers and
>currents of differing temperature and salinity.
>
>But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>
That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series
Baseball games

Regards
--
Peter R Cook


10 Aug 2004 19:39:58
Spam Magnet
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > wrote in message
news:Mr4Sc.422187$Gx4.279269@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> <snip>
> But a pint's a pound, the world around.

My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**
(which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds)
But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-)

PeterS
Remove my PANTS to reply.

** Fresh water, I'm sure my primary school teacher meant to say.





10 Aug 2004 21:18:43
Keith S.
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Spam Magnet wrote:

> My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**

If I remember the rhyme right, it's 'A pint of *pure* water weighs
a pound an a quarter'.

- Keith



10 Aug 2004 20:55:08
mike gray
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Peter R Cook wrote:

>>But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>>
> That would be a US pint presumably and "the world" as in World Series
> Baseball games

Uppity furriners!



10 Aug 2004 20:56:09
mike gray
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Spam Magnet wrote:

> "mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net> wrote in message
> news:Mr4Sc.422187$Gx4.279269@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> <snip>
>> But a pint's a pound, the world around.
>
> My 1960's school rhyme was "A pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter".**
> (which is handy, 'cos then a gallon weighs 10 pounds)
> But then I live in the UK where Imperial *means* Imperial ;-)

As long as it rhymes. That's all that's important.



10 Aug 2004 17:03:18
Reef Fish
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote in message news:<472db9ab.0408100103.2dc1ee35@posting.google.com >...
> Hello,
>
> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,

No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
just a few relevant factors on "density".


> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> possible.

As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.

The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
oceans.

You wanna measure salinity in metric units?


millisiemens (mS)
a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
used
to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
salt
to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.


I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
:)

-- Bob.


10 Aug 2004 23:18:54
Mario
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Hello,

Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
dead sea, and black sea.

As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
according to temperature and pressure.

I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
between the different seas.

Anyone has it please?

Thanks,

Mario

> > Hello,
> >
> > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
>
> No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
> Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
> just a few relevant factors on "density".
>
>
> > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > possible.
>
> As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
> of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
>
> The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
> of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
> Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
> oceans.
>
> You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
>
>
> millisiemens (mS)
> a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
> of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
> used
> to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
> salt
> to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
>
>
> I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
> :)
>
> -- Bob.


11 Aug 2004 05:54:59
simon v
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

> >Mario wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> >> mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> >> possible.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mario
> >

you're not related to Akkula by any chance are you?


11 Aug 2004 07:17:14
Reef Fish
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote in message news:<472db9ab.0408102218.1f2824a@posting.google.com >...
> Hello,
>
> Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
> know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
> dead sea, and black sea.
>
> As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
> according to temperature and pressure.

But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
in question.

The rank-order or ratio will remain approximately the same all year
round (assuming nearly comparable temperatures and pressures without
knowing what those actually are).

>
> I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
> between the different seas.

I am curious as to WHY. If this a project in a physics class in school?

>
> Anyone has it please?

I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone
might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY
given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for
the choice of term <g >) on the density VALUES?

>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

-- Bob.
>
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> >
> > No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
> > Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
> > just a few relevant factors on "density".
> >
> >
> > > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > > possible.
> >
> > As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
> > of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
> >
> > The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
> > of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
> > Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
> > oceans.
> >
> > You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
> >
> >
> > millisiemens (mS)
> > a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
> > of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
> > used
> > to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
> > salt
> > to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
> >
> >
> > I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
> > :)
> >
> > -- Bob.


11 Aug 2004 14:18:22
Adam Helberg
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"Mario" <marmagi@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:472db9ab.0408102218.1f2824a@posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
> know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
> dead sea, and black sea.
>
> As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
> according to temperature and pressure.
>
> I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
> between the different seas.
>
> Anyone has it please?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

This would be interesting to know as I believe there is a difference in weight
requirements when you go diving in different areas of the world. I spend some time on
Google trying to find it without success. I did find that the Red Sea is one of the
more saline ones but nothing worth posting.

Adam




11 Aug 2004 14:26:04
bullshark
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

On 10 Aug 2004 23:18:54 -0700, marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote:
>I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
>between the different seas.
I gave you a page that converts salinity to density.
I gave you a page that shows salinity around the world.

All you had to do was read and click.


12 Aug 2004 09:32:44
Steve Baker
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"nobody" <anyone@home.net > wrote in message
news:fo6Sc.53490$zc4.23044717@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Quite right, of course. It reminds me of an interesting thought problem
> ... that of the elusive "Perpetual Motion Machine". Typically, with
> warmer water near the surface, the amount of salt held in solution is
> greater, ie. saltier, and therefore denser. Unless there is a lot of
> mixing, this is usually the case. So, if one were able to put, say, a
> three mile deep vertical pipe, with the upper end just out of the water,
> and then apply suction to the top to get the flow going upwards, less
> dense water would be in the tube. And thus, the water would flow up and
> out of the tube, in theory, forever, with no external energy applied to
> the system save the difference in pressure between the external water
> and the internal water. Unfortunately, other factors get in the way,
> such as friction. But it's an interesting concept.

Apart from that suction, of course and the fact that the sun has a lot to do
with the varying salinity. However, perhaps a rain-powered turbine might
give you a similar & simpler result, based on evaporation, condensation &
precipitation!

:-)




13 Aug 2004 15:30:57
rwjg40
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

nobody wrote:

>Generally, the saltier the water,
> the lower the density. That's why you need more weight in the ocean vs.
> a fresh water lake.

Of course you know by now that you got it exactly backwards...

Gordon in Austin


13 Aug 2004 15:42:05
rwjg40
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Reef Fish wrote:
>
> marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote in message news:<472db9ab.0408102218.1f2824a@posting.google.com>...
> > Hello,
> >
> > Excuse me if my question was not so clear, sorry, yes I would like to
> > know the density and salinity of caribean, maditerranean, red sea,
> > dead sea, and black sea.
> >
> > As you say yes the upper layer will be ok as I know it changes
> > according to temperature and pressure.
>
> But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
> answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
> in question.
>
> The rank-order or ratio will remain approximately the same all year
> round (assuming nearly comparable temperatures and pressures without
> knowing what those actually are).
>
> >
> > I would like the values of density and salinity not only the ratio
> > between the different seas.
>
> I am curious as to WHY. If this a project in a physics class in school?
>
> >
> > Anyone has it please?
>
> I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone
> might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY
> given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for
> the choice of term <g>) on the density VALUES?
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mario
>
> -- Bob.
> >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Can any one tell me the average water density of the caribean,
> > >
> > > No! Nobody knows what kind of average you're talking about. :-)
> > > Averaged over location, time, temperature, pressure ..., to name
> > > just a few relevant factors on "density".
> > >
> > >
> > > > mediterranean, red , black and dead sea ? in metric system please if
> > > > possible.
> > >
> > > As the bullshark hinted, if you only want to rank-order the buoyancy
> > > of these seas, you only need to know the salinity of the water.
> > >
> > > The salinity of the upper layer of the Dead Sea is about 10 times that
> > > of the Mediterranean. The Red Sea is the next highest salinity. The
> > > Black Sea, on the other hand, is only about half the salinity of the
> > > oceans.
> > >
> > > You wanna measure salinity in metric units?
> > >
> > >
> > > millisiemens (mS)
> > > a common unit of conductance equal to 0.001 siemens or 1 milliampere
> > > of current per volt of potential difference. The millisiemens is often
> > > used
> > > to measure the salinity of seawater or brackish water, since adding
> > > salt
> > > to water makes it much more conductive of electricity.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't have the slightest idea how many mS each of the seas measure.
> > > :)
> > >
> > > -- Bob.

I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.

Gordon in Austin


14 Aug 2004 05:50:56
Reef Fish
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

rwjg40 <identity.available@upon.request > wrote in message news:<411D279D.BF740819@upon.request>...
> Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario>
> >
> >
> > But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
> > answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
> > in question.

Undaunted, Mario ssked again,

> > > Anyone has it please?
> >
> > I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone
> > might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY
> > given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for
> > the choice of term <g>) on the density VALUES?
> >
> > -- Bob.


> I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
> approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.
>
> Gordon in Austin

True to a first approximation.

Mario and Gordon and whoever else bent on density:

http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm

-- Bob.


14 Aug 2004 13:54:10
John Wells
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:8fb7380b.0408101603.3447f5a3@posting.google.com...
> marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote in message
> news:<472db9ab.0408100103.2dc1ee35@posting.google.com>...

[snip]
>
> millisiemens (mS)
[snip]

So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia?

Sorry, couldn't resist!




14 Aug 2004 10:43:18
Crownfield
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

Reef Fish wrote:
>
> rwjg40 <identity.available@upon.request> wrote in message news:<411D279D.BF740819@upon.request>...
> > Reef Fish wrote: <in response to Mario>
> > >
> > >
> > > But I think you missed the point that your question CANNOT be correctly
> > > answered without specifying the temperature and pressure of the seas
> > > in question.
>
> Undaunted, Mario ssked again,
>
> > > > Anyone has it please?
> > >
> > > I doubt it. If you specify the precise temperature and pressure, someone
> > > might, but those are unlikely to be the temperature and pressure at ANY
> > > given time, at the same time. So, again, WHY are you so bent (sorry for
> > > the choice of term <g>) on the density VALUES?
> > >
> > > -- Bob.
>
> > I doubt that the density of water varies much with pressure. To a first
> > approximation, water is an incompressible fluid.
> >
> > Gordon in Austin
>
> True to a first approximation.
>
> Mario and Gordon and whoever else bent on density:
>
> http://www.ucdsb.on.ca/tiss/stretton/chem2/data19.htm

Damn. that explains it!

diving in cold water is harder because the water is thicker!
I knew there had to be a reason.


>
> -- Bob.


14 Aug 2004 10:44:23
Crownfield
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?

John Wells wrote:
>
> "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8fb7380b.0408101603.3447f5a3@posting.google.com...
> > marmagi@hotmail.com (Mario) wrote in message
> > news:<472db9ab.0408100103.2dc1ee35@posting.google.com>...
>
> [snip]
> >
> > millisiemens (mS)
> [snip]
>
> So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia?
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist!

and I though that millisiemens was mouse ejaculate.

live and learn.


14 Aug 2004 21:01:20
Cliff Coggin
Re: water density of mediterranean, red sea, black sea and dead sea?


"Crownfield" <Crownfield@cox.net > wrote in message
news:411E4F77.DD7@cox.net...
> John Wells wrote:
> >
> > "Reef Fish" <Large_Nassau_Grouper@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:8fb7380b.0408101603.3447f5a3@posting.google.com...

> >
> > So, how many millisiemens to a Nokia?

>
> and I though that millisiemens was mouse ejaculate.


You're weird.

Cliff.