14 Apr 2008 00:44:24

white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

Hi, following Kuzmin thesis and assumptions about "hairs" on ski bases, I decided to give it a late season try. I ordered a "Kuzmin sickel", picked up that old pair of race ski of mine known for showing grey spots quickly. I thoroughly scraped them (rendering the base flat, BTW). After ~80kms *WITHOUT ANY* base wax, bases are still plain black... First glide tests against my "fast" skis showed very good results. The major factor influencing glide being grind, nothing else. Tests to be continued. Thanks Dr Kuzmin. Now we need to know more : - Can we scrap tail to tip as well as tip to tail ? ( I did it lightly to presumably bring hairs up) - Is it relevant to polish with some sort of "SctochBright" and brush to get the shine ? - Is a Final layer of pure fluoro product still usefull ? Laurent.

14 Apr 2008 03:39:27

ADK Skier

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

On Apr 14, 3:44=A0am, lo....@free.fr wrote: > Hi, > > following Kuzmin thesis and assumptions about "hairs" on ski bases, I > decided to give it a late season try. > I ordered a "Kuzmin sickel", picked up that old pair of race ski of > mine known for showing grey spots quickly. > > I thoroughly scraped them (rendering the base flat, BTW). > > After ~80kms *WITHOUT ANY* base wax, bases are still plain black... > > First glide tests against my "fast" skis showed very good results. The > major factor influencing glide being grind, nothing else. Tests to be > continued. > > Thanks Dr Kuzmin. > > Now we need to know more : > > - Can we scrap tail to tip as well as tip to tail ? ( I did it lightly > to presumably bring hairs up) > - Is it relevant to polish with some sort of "SctochBright" and brush > to get the shine ? > - Is a Final layer of pure fluoro product still usefull ? > > Laurent. Where do you get a Kuzmin sickle? Ive attempted to hone a perfectly square edge on on a meatal scraper and than put a hook on it. It never comes out right and it cuts strings of P-tex instead of a peel from the base. I can see if it peeled it would make the base flat. Otherwise it destroys the base.

14 Apr 2008 05:02:49

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

I ordered it by email (shipping to France) and managed a Bank Transfer with a Swedish colleague. (International Bank transfer was possible but still subject to extra charge) A replacement for that sickle could be a cut tool used in wood machines.

14 Apr 2008 15:20:14

ADK Skier

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

On Apr 14, 8:02=A0am, lo....@free.fr wrote: > I ordered it by email (shipping to France) and managed a Bank Transfer > with a Swedish colleague. > (International Bank transfer was possible but still subject to extra > charge) > > A replacement for that sickle could be a cut tool used in wood > machines. Could you give a little info than that. Is it a metal scraper or different kind of tool. Also what the source in Europe?

14 Apr 2008 22:47:40

Anders

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

On 14 huhti, 13:39, ADK Skier <lgs...@yahoo.com > wrote: > Where do you get a Kuzmin sickle? Skistart.com accepts payment by credit card; e-mail info@skistart com You can also buy a "Kuzminsickel" - or a set: beside the "Original", there is now a "Plus" and a "Minus" - from the man himself; e-mail kundtjanst@kuzmin.se Anders

15 Apr 2008 00:01:57

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

http://www.kuzmin.nu/ This is a very sharp metal scraper.The 4 angles are the same and can do the job. I have the "original" only.

15 Apr 2008 09:59:56

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

What do you mean by grind being the major factor? I ask because Kuzmin argues that grind makes the ski slower and reduces hydrophobicity, which then makes wax necessary. See his answer to Ian Harvey at the bottom of page 2: http://www.kuzmin.nu/files/doc/AnswerTo%20Ivan%20Harvey%20XCitation_3%20Sep.pdf lo.dup@free.fr wrote: > First glide tests against my "fast" skis showed very good results. The > major factor influencing glide being grind, nothing else. Tests to be > continued. > > Thanks Dr Kuzmin.

15 Apr 2008 09:07:28

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

I mean manual grind. Swix + toko I had three pairs of skis. 1 - Vandel L101C medium flex, CH + Nanowax Pro 4, minimal (old) manual grind. 2 - Vandel L101 soft flex, not waxed, kuzmin-scraped, medium Swix grind + Toko coarse grind. 3 - Rossignol Xium F3, factory grind, CH + Nanowax Warm temp and soft snow. (note that Nanowax Pro4 gives splendid results on that snow). I always have some quite soft skis as I weight ~65 Kgs. The 2 was the fastest, at first.(No doubt). That was a kind of surprise given their soft flex. I expected some high suction. Then, I manually grind the 1 and 1 and 2 became comparable. (no doubt either). with perhaps still a slight advantage for 2. I didn't feel it myself but my friend did. The Rossi were the slowest.

15 Apr 2008 09:20:45

Re: white or grey areas on ski bases. Solved.

Note that the point of this post is not if waxing is relevant or not. Although it leads to... The thing I'm now sure of is that Grey areas on the base are hairs and that they can be quite easily removed with a proper tool. They have obviously a major impact on glide, when they're not agglomerated by some "base" wax. Now, can we get rid of the final layer is another point to be investigated. As mentioned above I've always felt a good impact of High fluoro (Nanowas Pro4) on high temp...

17 Apr 2008 11:58:02

Re: WHITE = WAX

On Apr 17, 1:55 am, "Jeff and Stephanie Kalember" <kalem...@chartermi.net > wrote: > wait, NO WAX on skis resulting in NO WHITE spots means the white spots are > due to WAX !! > ?? > > right?? > White spots are due to an hairy base. Hairs being hiden for a while by waxing. No Hair, no white spot, regardless of wax or no wax. No Hair, better glide in the long run. Note that I've seen stone grinded bases staying (visualy) plain black as well. (Ski prepared by "il maestro" Taschler in Antholz/Anterselva for the Olympics in Turin and then sold back to an Italian friend (the serial number on them attest the "Fischer world cup team service") Now, no-wax giving a better glide than wax is another story that need to be investigated. Kuzmin reports the "entire industry" doesn't use any wax nor lubricant with UHMWPE. The thing is that the entire industry doesn't play at worldcup races, where 10s over 15kms can be a huge ranking gap. Kuzmin says that the future is better bases. Saying that, he almost agrees that current bases are not that optimal in all conditions... Yet, the enthousiats skier can own 2 or three pairs of skis with dedicated bases and have a lower overall cost because of wax savings . I'm very enthousiast about Kuzmin conclusion. Yet, I want to see by myself I'm fortunate enough to leave near the Vandel ski factory (France) who let you choose among 6 types of base. I'll ask them if a tranparent base could be an option.