05 Jul 2005 10:35:01
SuperB
Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
to replace the cushions. When I bought the table, it was set up and
tried to test the cushions by bouncing balls off of them. It was hard
to tell how much speed was lost due to the cushions because the cloth
itself was really slow.

I have taken the cloth off of one cushion and I see that the rubber
facing is falling off the end. Also, an approximately 1-inch section
of the cushion itself has come unglued at the end of the rail. Looking
at other posts, I see that one might be able to simply reglue these
parts without removing the entire cushion.

The table was made in 1967, but I'm not sure if they are the original
cushions or not. Perhaps they are original, because they say Brunswick
Monarch Superspeed and there is a little image of a pool player on
either side of the writing. I think I read somewhere that these
cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.

Can I tell from a visual inspection whether or not the cushions have
gone bad and need to be replaced? The rubber looks dirty, but not
necessarily cracked.



05 Jul 2005 17:47:29
Sorackem
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in news:1120584901.208710.293110
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
> to replace the cushions.

Here are some recent articles by Patrick Sheehan. Very good stuff;

[That's How The Ball Bounces - Part I (October 2004)]

http://www.onthebreaknews.com/SheehanIndex.htm


-Brian


05 Jul 2005 19:12:07
Roger Orsulak
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120584901.208710.293110@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
> to replace the cushions. When I bought the table, it was set up and
> tried to test the cushions by bouncing balls off of them. It was hard
> to tell how much speed was lost due to the cushions because the cloth
> itself was really slow.
>
> I have taken the cloth off of one cushion and I see that the rubber
> facing is falling off the end. Also, an approximately 1-inch section
> of the cushion itself has come unglued at the end of the rail. Looking
> at other posts, I see that one might be able to simply reglue these
> parts without removing the entire cushion.
>
> The table was made in 1967, but I'm not sure if they are the original
> cushions or not. Perhaps they are original, because they say Brunswick
> Monarch Superspeed and there is a little image of a pool player on
> either side of the writing. I think I read somewhere that these
> cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
>
> Can I tell from a visual inspection whether or not the cushions have
> gone bad and need to be replaced? The rubber looks dirty, but not
> necessarily cracked.
>

Unless you are SURE that there is a PROBLEM with the cushions, I wouldn't
replace them. I have the original (AFAIK) cushions on my Brunswick
Centennial. After 60 years, they're still in excellent shape.

Roger




05 Jul 2005 17:32:43
Aunty Dan
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Nice articles, if a little hard to read and full of typos. Shame about the
hand-drawn diagrams, this makes it hard to understand what he is trying to
show.

--
Aunty Dan
------------------------------------------
"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard."
- W. Shakespeare
------------------------------------------
"Sorackem" <flint_stoned@nodcomcast.net > wrote in message
news:Xns968AA0AB7FED4flintstonednod@216.196.97.136...
> "SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com> wrote in news:1120584901.208710.293110
> @g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
>> to replace the cushions.
>
> Here are some recent articles by Patrick Sheehan. Very good stuff;
>
> [That's How The Ball Bounces - Part I (October 2004)]
>
> http://www.onthebreaknews.com/SheehanIndex.htm
>
>
> -Brian




05 Jul 2005 18:20:58
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

That is total bull she-yit, some rubber is dead in 6 months, almost all
after 3 to 6 years in a pool hall. Replace the rubber, nothing lasts
forever.



06 Jul 2005 03:50:51
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120584901.208710.293110@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
> to replace the cushions. When I bought the table, it was set up and
> tried to test the cushions by bouncing balls off of them. It was hard
> to tell how much speed was lost due to the cushions because the cloth
> itself was really slow.
>
> I have taken the cloth off of one cushion and I see that the rubber
> facing is falling off the end. Also, an approximately 1-inch section
> of the cushion itself has come unglued at the end of the rail. Looking
> at other posts, I see that one might be able to simply reglue these
> parts without removing the entire cushion.
>
> The table was made in 1967, but I'm not sure if they are the original
> cushions or not. Perhaps they are original, because they say Brunswick
> Monarch Superspeed and there is a little image of a pool player on
> either side of the writing. I think I read somewhere that these

SuperB thinks he read somewhere

> cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.


why are you unsure?
BTW they are far superior to anything available today

Otto
>
> Can I tell from a visual inspection whether or not the cushions have
> gone bad and need to be replaced? The rubber looks dirty, but not
> necessarily cracked.
>




05 Jul 2005 20:54:39
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

rubber ages and it get hard in time, or its gets so soft it fails to
work. 90% of the banks hit the same spot and in less than 10 years all
rubber has serious dead spots on it when you hit that spot the ball
goes off crazy, never the same way twice. Any rubber more than 10 year
old should be replaced period without question. Of course, I use K-55
German Artemis intercontinental, ah so, all you bozos are on K-66, poor
fookers.



05 Jul 2005 21:01:40
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

fuck this pool, what kind of rubbers do you guys use to slide over your
dicks. do you go for safety, color or ribs? Is price an issue, with
me it is as I am a volumn user.



05 Jul 2005 22:20:28
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?



>Sorackem wrote:
> Here are some recent articles by Patrick Sheehan. Very good stuff;
>
> [That's How The Ball Bounces - Part I (October 2004)]
>
> http://www.onthebreaknews.com/SheehanIndex.htm
>
>
> -Brian

Thanks for the article. Interesting stuff. If I do replace the
cushions, I will definately get K55.

How are the K55 cushions that Brunswick makes today? Shouldn't they
have the rubber quality issues down by now??

-SuperB



05 Jul 2005 22:31:44
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?



ottomatic wrote:
>
> SuperB thinks he read somewhere
>
> > cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> > course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
>
>
> why are you unsure?
> BTW they are far superior to anything available today
>
> Otto
>

Are you asking...

(1) Why am I unsure that the old ones are better?

or

(2) Why am I unsure of my cushions' current condition?



05 Jul 2005 22:49:30
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?



sanabda2050@yahoo.com wrote:
> Is price an issue, with me it is as I am a volumn user.

No, especially on a table like this, it would be worth the price if
they need to be replaced. The hesitation is because I'd rather keep
the old school ones if they are still alive and kicking and if they are
really better or longer lasting than the new stuff.

-SuperB



05 Jul 2005 23:07:58
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Bet you are still driving your 67 Edsel with 400,000 miles on it and
proud of it dude.



05 Jul 2005 23:25:37
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

ramdadingdong@yahoo.com wrote:
> Bet you are still driving your 67 Edsel with 400,000 miles on it and
> proud of it dude.

Hahahaha!! Thanks, I hadn't heard of an Edsel, but that was funny.
http://www.edsel.com/pages/special.htm

-SuperB



05 Jul 2005 23:33:30
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

The deathstar drives one to work at mickey mouse. They prove, older
cars, are better than new cars today.



06 Jul 2005 10:13:42
JoeyA
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

60 years of playing? So that's why you can play well even with a house cue.
JoeyA

"Roger Orsulak" <normorsulak@cox.net > wrote in message
news:9tEye.9414$up5.8930@lakeread02...
:
: "SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
: news:1120584901.208710.293110@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: > I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
: > to replace the cushions. When I bought the table, it was set up and
: > tried to test the cushions by bouncing balls off of them. It was hard
: > to tell how much speed was lost due to the cushions because the cloth
: > itself was really slow.
: >
: > I have taken the cloth off of one cushion and I see that the rubber
: > facing is falling off the end. Also, an approximately 1-inch section
: > of the cushion itself has come unglued at the end of the rail. Looking
: > at other posts, I see that one might be able to simply reglue these
: > parts without removing the entire cushion.
: >
: > The table was made in 1967, but I'm not sure if they are the original
: > cushions or not. Perhaps they are original, because they say Brunswick
: > Monarch Superspeed and there is a little image of a pool player on
: > either side of the writing. I think I read somewhere that these
: > cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
: > course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
: >
: > Can I tell from a visual inspection whether or not the cushions have
: > gone bad and need to be replaced? The rubber looks dirty, but not
: > necessarily cracked.
: >
:
: Unless you are SURE that there is a PROBLEM with the cushions, I wouldn't
: replace them. I have the original (AFAIK) cushions on my Brunswick
: Centennial. After 60 years, they're still in excellent shape.
:
: Roger
:
:




06 Jul 2005 15:50:04
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120627904.164940.181350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> ottomatic wrote:
> >
> > SuperB thinks he read somewhere
> >
> > > cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> > > course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
> >
> >
> > why are you unsure?
> > BTW they are far superior to anything available today
> >
> > Otto
> >
>
> Are you asking...
>
> (1) Why am I unsure that the old ones are better?
>
> or
>
> (2) Why am I unsure of my cushions' current condition?

(3) why you are unsure if you read it

FWIW - you absolutely, positively do NOT want to put K55 on your GC1
K55 was a slow 3 cushion<carom, technically > rubber, favored by Balkline
players

I don't know for sure, but I would be astounded if it is available from
Brunswick
today<or anywhere else in the USA >

I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who even
knows
what K55 is/was

Otto<who is perhaps way too sure >
>




06 Jul 2005 09:55:47
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Me:
> cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
>
Otto:
> why are you unsure?
>

Me:
> Are you asking...
>
> (1) Why am I unsure that the old ones are better?
>
> or
>
> (2) Why am I unsure of my cushions' current condition?
>

Otto:
> (3) why you are unsure if you read it
>
> FWIW - you absolutely, positively do NOT want to put K55 on your GC1
> K55 was a slow 3 cushion<carom, technically> rubber, favored by Balkline
> players
>

I'm not arguing, just pondering, but why would 3-cushion players want a
slower cushion than pool when carom involves farther ball travel and a
larger table than pool?

Otto:
>
> I don't know for sure, but I would be astounded if it is available from
> Brunswick
> today<or anywhere else in the USA>
>
> I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who even
> knows
> what K55 is/was
>

This I'd be willing to bet against. Unless the company has gone to
total crap (no), I'm sure there are pool table engineers there who know
a hell of a lot more about this subject than MOST of US combined. (Not
trying to disrespect this group, just realistic. You don't produce top
of the line pool tables for 150 years without talented individuals.)

> Otto<who is perhaps way too sure>
> >

To answer question (3), there are several reasons why reading it
wouldn't make me sure. The most important being that I didn't remember
the source, and that I can't blindly believe everything I read.

For example, here is a quote from the Pat Sheehan paper referenced
above:

"I had an interesting call from a mechanic in Southern California who
read the articles and told me his competitors were using Artimis K66 on
Gold Crown Tables without adapting the rails. The balls came off the
second rail as flat as a pancake. If you set their cushions to the top
of the rail they are 3/16" high (see drawing #1), because the Gold
Crown rail is produced to only use the Match Monarch that we now call
K55."

Here is a quote from you: "FWIW - you absolutely, positively do NOT
want to put K55 on your GC1"

So here is a timely example of a direct contradiction between two
things I read in this forum.

-SuperB <- Capable of being wrong, so figures he's not the only one.



06 Jul 2005 10:49:01
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Correct, I have been saying all along, the gold crown rails are too
high and if you bank very hard, the ball is forced under the rail and
spits out with backspin.
K55 K66 has nothing to do with the rubber, or the kind of rubber, good
or bad. This means what the profile of the rubber is, how it is
shaped. Oh, by the way, Diamond only uses K55, have a nice day....



06 Jul 2005 12:42:51
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?



I wrote:
> I just bought a Gold Crown I, and I am trying to decide whether or not
> to replace the cushions. When I bought the table, it was set up and
> tried to test the cushions by bouncing balls off of them. It was hard
> to tell how much speed was lost due to the cushions because the cloth
> itself was really slow.
>

Ideally, the cushions should be tested by hitting the cue ball and
seeing how many opposite rails it will hit. If it can go down table
and back to travel 4-5 table lengths, the cushions are in good shape.
Of course, this assumes fast cloth and an assembled table. When I
bought the table, it had very slow cloth, and currently, the table is
disassembled.

Fortunately for me, there is a quantitative test that can be done on a
bare cushion to check the firmness. An instrument called a durometer
is designed to test the hardness of a material. A "Shore D" durometer
is the type used for hard rubber and plastic. Brunswick's
specification is that a cushion should measure 40 +/- 2 using a Shore D
durometer. I don't know what the units are.

Unfortunately for me, durometers are mighty expensive and it will be
difficult to find one to borrow.

-SuperB



06 Jul 2005 18:48:24
Roger Orsulak
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"JoeyA" <joey@noofficespecialties.net > wrote in message
news:dagt07$ghb$1@news.datasync.com...
> 60 years of playing? So that's why you can play well even with a house
cue.
> JoeyA
>


I only WISH I played as well as the table!




06 Jul 2005 16:49:36
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

>
> Unless you are SURE that there is a PROBLEM with the cushions, I wouldn't
> replace them. I have the original (AFAIK) cushions on my Brunswick
> Centennial. After 60 years, they're still in excellent shape.
>
> Roger

Thanks, Roger. Good advice. I will proceed with caution and won't
touch the cushions unless I'm sure.

BTW, the Centennial sounds/looks like a mighty fine table indeed.

-SuperB



08 Jul 2005 02:54:13
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120668947.827736.217830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Me:
> > cushions are better than the ones made today. Any truth to that? Of
> > course, that's assuming that they are still in good condition.
> >
> Otto:
> > why are you unsure?
> >
>
> Me:
> > Are you asking...
> >
> > (1) Why am I unsure that the old ones are better?
> >
> > or
> >
> > (2) Why am I unsure of my cushions' current condition?
> >
>
> Otto:
> > (3) why you are unsure if you read it
> >
> > FWIW - you absolutely, positively do NOT want to put K55 on your GC1
> > K55 was a slow 3 cushion<carom, technically> rubber, favored by Balkline
> > players
> >
>
> I'm not arguing, just pondering, but why would 3-cushion players want a
> slower cushion than pool when carom involves farther ball travel and a
> larger table than pool?

3C didn't, it was Balkline, in which a typical shot moves abour 2 inches
>
> Otto:
> >
> > I don't know for sure, but I would be astounded if it is available from
> > Brunswick
> > today<or anywhere else in the USA>
> >
> > I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who
even
> > knows
> > what K55 is/was
> >
>
> This I'd be willing to bet against.

how about your house against my house

Unless the company has gone to
> total crap (no), I'm sure

sure again eh?

there are pool table engineers there who know
> a hell of a lot more about this subject than MOST of US combined.

not too familar with Brunswick of the past 3 or 4 decades are you?
<they haven't actuall built a table since 1975-ish >


(Not
> trying to disrespect this group, just realistic. You don't produce top
> of the line pool tables for 150 years without talented individuals.)
>
> > Otto<who is perhaps way too sure>
> > >
>
> To answer question (3), there are several reasons why reading it
> wouldn't make me sure. The most important being that I didn't remember
> the source, and that I can't blindly believe everything I read.
>
> For example, here is a quote from the Pat Sheehan paper referenced
> above:
>
> "I had an interesting call from a mechanic in Southern California who
> read the articles and told me his competitors were using Artimis K66 on
> Gold Crown Tables without adapting the rails. The balls came off the
> second rail as flat as a pancake. If you set their cushions to the top
> of the rail they are 3/16" high (see drawing #1), because the Gold
> Crown rail is produced to only use the Match Monarch that we now call
> K55."
>
> Here is a quote from you: "FWIW - you absolutely, positively do NOT
> want to put K55 on your GC1"
>
> So here is a timely example of a direct contradiction between two
> things I read in this forum.
>
> -SuperB <- Capable of being wrong, so figures he's not the only one.

no cause I figured you actuall ment U55, which is what my comments
were directed to and yes the old GC rubbber was a diferent
profile from K66 but the new rubber is Taiwan TOTAL crap<to quote a previous
opinion >

Otto<who is sure that he is sure, more or less >
>




08 Jul 2005 02:57:51
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120693776.260873.193220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Unless you are SURE that there is a PROBLEM with the cushions, I
wouldn't
> > replace them. I have the original (AFAIK) cushions on my Brunswick
> > Centennial. After 60 years, they're still in excellent shape.
> >
> > Roger
>
> Thanks, Roger. Good advice. I will proceed with caution and won't
> touch the cushions unless I'm sure.
>


> BTW, the Centennial sounds/looks like a mighty fine table indeed.

this is just one person's opinion, but as someone who has owned a few of
both,
several GCs, actually, the Centenial is FAR superior to the GC, as is the
Aniversary

Otto

>
> -SuperB
>




07 Jul 2005 21:44:11
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Otto:
>
> sure again eh?
>

> not too familar with Brunswick of the past 3 or 4 decades are you?
> <they haven't actuall built a table since 1975-ish>
>
>

Well, I knew they outsourced the Gold Crown III when it came out in
1976 (and one would assume their other tables were too). The quality
went down in the GCIII, but I thought that the problems were fixed when
they built the IV in 1997. Anyway, I PERSONALLY would not assume that
they fired every one of their pool table experts just because the
manufactering went overseas. However, if you know otherwise, please,
enlighten me.

-SuperB <- here to learn, not to bicker



07 Jul 2005 21:54:15
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Roger:
> Unless you are SURE that there is a PROBLEM with the cushions, I
> wouldn't replace them. I have the original (AFAIK) cushions on my
> Brunswick Centennial. After 60 years, they're still in excellent shape.
>

Me:
> Thanks, Roger. Good advice. I will proceed with caution and won't
> touch the cushions unless I'm sure.
>
> BTW, the Centennial sounds/looks like a mighty fine table indeed.
>

Otto:
> this is just one person's opinion, but as someone who has owned a few of
> both,
> several GCs, actually, the Centenial is FAR superior to the GC, as is the
> Aniversary
>
> Otto
>

Yeah, those old tables look like they are built like brick sh!t-houses.
I'd love to own one or even play on one someday. Maybe I'm lucky I
haven't so I can be happy on a measly Gold Crown.

-SuperB



08 Jul 2005 08:37:26
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Ottomatic:
> I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who
> even knows what K55 is/was

Me:
> This I'd be willing to bet against.
>

Otto:
> how about your house against my house
>

By the way, why don't you read the paper referenced above, find the
name of the chief engineer at Brunswick who the author referenced
numerous times, and then see if HE still works there? Then you can
also ask Brunswick if they know what K55 is. After that, please send
me the deed to your house without delay. I'd like to start airing it
out ASAP.

-SuperB



08 Jul 2005 16:14:34
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120797851.626010.104410@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Otto:
> >
> > sure again eh?
> >
>
> > not too familar with Brunswick of the past 3 or 4 decades are you?
> > <they haven't actuall built a table since 1975-ish>
> >
> >
>
> Well, I knew they outsourced the Gold Crown III when it came out in
> 1976 (and one would assume their other tables were too). The quality
> went down in the GCIII, but I thought that the problems were fixed when
> they built the IV in 1997. Anyway, I PERSONALLY would not assume that
> they fired every one of their pool table experts just because the
> manufactering went overseas. However, if you know otherwise, please,
> enlighten me.

the manufacturing didn't go overseas, it went to Whirlitser(sp?)
and they didn't fire evrybody who kinew tables, more like they died of old
age,
but, it is widely known and understood that Bruns hasen't given
a tinkers damn about billiards for decades

Otto the historian
>
> -SuperB <- here to learn, not to bicker
>




08 Jul 2005 16:17:05
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


<brendan.crooks@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120837046.070506.44310@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ottomatic:
> > I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who
> > even knows what K55 is/was
>
> Me:
> > This I'd be willing to bet against.
> >
>
> Otto:
> > how about your house against my house

previously on RSB,
as I said comments were about U55

seen any balkline players lately?
didn't think so
> >
>
> By the way, why don't you read the paper referenced above, find the
> name of the chief engineer at Brunswick who the author referenced
> numerous times, and then see if HE still works there? Then you can
> also ask Brunswick if they know what K55 is. After that, please send
> me the deed to your house without delay. I'd like to start airing it
> out ASAP.
>
> -SuperB
>




08 Jul 2005 09:27:52
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

ottomatic wrote:
>
> previously on RSB,
> as I said comments were about U55
>

So you meant U55. No biggie, I won't hold it against you as we all
make mistakes. Just don't blame me for yours.

> seen any balkline players lately?
> didn't think so

Ouch, I'm so hurt.



08 Jul 2005 16:11:53
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?



ottomatic wrote:
>
> the manufacturing didn't go overseas, it went to Whirlitser(sp?)
> and they didn't fire evrybody who kinew tables, more like they died of old
> age,
> but, it is widely known and understood that Bruns hasen't given
> a tinkers damn about billiards for decades
>
> Otto the historian

My mistake, overseas, is incorrect. Wurlitzer did their manufacturing
outside of the states though, no? Manufacturing went to... Brazil, was
it? Must have somehow gotten translated in my mind to overseas.
Perhaps over canals, or across borders at least. Well it is far away
from here, anyhow.

Anyway, the experts at Brunswick are not all dead, but perhaps
powerless if the company, for business/cost reasons, has long since
given up on improving their equipment. So...

Is the GCIV not as good as the GCI due to the outsourcing? I thought
the problems with the GCIII were fixed in the GCIV. If some problems
remain, what are they? (aside from cushions)

Side question, does anyone know what changes were made going from the
GCI to the GCII (other than color, trim options, score-counter size,
etc. I'm talkin' quality/construction/performance)?

And now the question for the ages, what makes the Centennial far
superior, or better in some way, to the GCI, in terms of performance?

As far as I can tell (now this being the speculation of an admitted
non-expert on pool equipment), I see only a few things:

1. Mass: The Centennial looks like one solid hefty table. However, at
about 1270 lbs., the GCI is not going anywhere either, is it?

2. Construction: weight is not everything to the construction. If it
were, we can all buy Sears tables and strap a bunch of sandbags onto
the legs. However, is the GCI not solidly constructed? What are the
weak points?

Other? ... So what exactly is it that makes, for example, a Centennial
a BETTER PLAYING and LONGER LASTING table than a GCI or GCIV? (Not to
mention its a beautiful, harder to obtain antique with a great classic
style.)

-SB



08 Jul 2005 19:30:33
Roger Orsulak
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120864313.768342.202650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> ottomatic wrote:
> >
> > the manufacturing didn't go overseas, it went to Whirlitser(sp?)
> > and they didn't fire evrybody who kinew tables, more like they died of
old
> > age,
> > but, it is widely known and understood that Bruns hasen't given
> > a tinkers damn about billiards for decades
> >
> > Otto the historian
>
> My mistake, overseas, is incorrect. Wurlitzer did their manufacturing
> outside of the states though, no? Manufacturing went to... Brazil, was
> it? Must have somehow gotten translated in my mind to overseas.
> Perhaps over canals, or across borders at least. Well it is far away
> from here, anyhow.
>
> Anyway, the experts at Brunswick are not all dead, but perhaps
> powerless if the company, for business/cost reasons, has long since
> given up on improving their equipment. So...
>
> Is the GCIV not as good as the GCI due to the outsourcing? I thought
> the problems with the GCIII were fixed in the GCIV. If some problems
> remain, what are they? (aside from cushions)
>
> Side question, does anyone know what changes were made going from the
> GCI to the GCII (other than color, trim options, score-counter size,
> etc. I'm talkin' quality/construction/performance)?
>
> And now the question for the ages, what makes the Centennial far
> superior, or better in some way, to the GCI, in terms of performance?
>
> As far as I can tell (now this being the speculation of an admitted
> non-expert on pool equipment), I see only a few things:
>
> 1. Mass: The Centennial looks like one solid hefty table. However, at
> about 1270 lbs., the GCI is not going anywhere either, is it?
>
> 2. Construction: weight is not everything to the construction. If it
> were, we can all buy Sears tables and strap a bunch of sandbags onto
> the legs. However, is the GCI not solidly constructed? What are the
> weak points?
>
> Other? ... So what exactly is it that makes, for example, a Centennial
> a BETTER PLAYING and LONGER LASTING table than a GCI or GCIV? (Not to
> mention its a beautiful, harder to obtain antique with a great classic
> style.)
>
> -SB
>

OK, you won't hear me saying that the Centennial is superior to the Gold
Crown. For me, the purchase was one of nostalgia. It's the model that I
grew up playing on. I love the styling. When a local room went out of
business 20 yrs ago, I was able to buy one inexpensively - for far less than
I would have to pay for a GC.

As to weight, the centennial weighs in at just around 1200 lb as measured by
me from the sum of its parts.

Let the debates begin.

Roger "The Mayor"




09 Jul 2005 09:07:13
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


<brendan.crooks@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120837046.070506.44310@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ottomatic:
> > I'd even be mildly suprised if there is still anyone at Brunswick who
> > even knows what K55 is/was
>
> Me:
> > This I'd be willing to bet against.
> >
>
> Otto:
> > how about your house against my house
> >
>
> By the way, why don't you read the paper referenced above, find the
> name of the chief engineer at Brunswick who the author referenced
> numerous times, and then see if HE still works there? Then you can
> also ask Brunswick if they know what K55 is. After that, please send
> me the deed to your house without delay.


>I'd like to start airing it out ASAP.

that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour

Otto
>
> -SuperB
>




09 Jul 2005 03:46:51
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


ottomatic wrote:
>
> that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
>
nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.

-SuperB



09 Jul 2005 10:13:04
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

SuperB wrote:
> ottomatic wrote:
> >
> > that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
> >
> nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
> sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.
>
> -SuperB

This is unproductive and unfulfilling. I'm sorry I was a part of it.
Lets try to avoid this nonsense in the future.



09 Jul 2005 10:13:19
SuperB
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

SuperB wrote:
> ottomatic wrote:
> >
> > that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
> >
> nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
> sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.
>
> -SuperB

This is unproductive and unfulfilling. I'm sorry I was a part of it.
Lets try to avoid this nonsense in the future.



09 Jul 2005 12:23:46
Patrick Johnson
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Otto's volley:
>>>that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour

SuperB's smash return:
>>nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
>>sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.

SuperB realizes he hit his return out of bounds:
> This is unproductive and unfulfilling. I'm sorry I was a part of it.
> Lets try to avoid this nonsense in the future.

Does that mean his sister's available?

(Just kidding, Otto...)
pj <-- WAY out of bounds
chgo


10 Jul 2005 19:04:17
Mark0
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?

Yep. That Sheldon makes more sense every day....

TTSB

Mark0


===
"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120906011.859199.249790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> ottomatic wrote:
> >
> > that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
> >
> nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
> sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.
>
> -SuperB
>




11 Jul 2005 19:12:09
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"SuperB" <snapthe9@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1120929184.656727.47230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> SuperB wrote:
> > ottomatic wrote:
> > >
> > > that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
> > >
> > nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
> > sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.
> >
> > -SuperB
>
> This is unproductive and unfulfilling. I'm sorry I was a part of it.

you were the initiating part of it, actually

Otto<but who's counting >


> Lets try to avoid this nonsense in the future.
>




11 Jul 2005 19:14:03
ottomatic
Re: Brunswick Monarch Superspeed Cushions - repair or replace?


"Patrick Johnson" <patrick.johnsonREMOVE@THIScomcast.net > wrote in message
news:POSdnUaS84q_lU3fRVn-pg@comcast.com...
> Otto's volley:
> >>>that won't be necessary, your mother was only there for about an hour
>
> SuperB's smash return:
> >>nice to know you're a necrophiliac. that makes sense. you see, your
> >>sister's been over for a lot longer than an hour; she's a nymphomaniac.
>
> SuperB realizes he hit his return out of bounds:
> > This is unproductive and unfulfilling. I'm sorry I was a part of it.
> > Lets try to avoid this nonsense in the future.
>
> Does that mean his sister's available?
Take my sister, PLEASE - ( with apologies to Henny Youngman)

Otto<who's wife left long ago >
>
> (Just kidding, Otto...)
> pj <-- WAY out of bounds
> chgo