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| 01 May 2008 20:23:38 |
| Ed McCune |
| Lining up thick |
I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin occasionally before settling into the shot. For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots and increases my make % considerably. Ed -- mccune@standardab.ca |
| 01 May 2008 22:49:51 |
| John Black |
| Re: Lining up thick |
In article <fvdtue$fjh$1@registered.motzarella.org >, mccune@telusplanet.net says... > I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to > be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I > then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin > occasionally before settling into the shot. > > For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots and > increases my make % considerably. Ok, who hijacked Ed's computer and is putting us on? I thought you were Mr. don't do special things for "certain" shots? I.e. if lining up that way on *those shots* is a good idea, it must be a good idea in general. I also thought correcting the line while down in the stance was kind of anti-orthdoxy as well? You have always been more realistic (than some) about that one though, admitting that small adjustments are necessary when down, but to delibrately line up wrong? -- that's surprising. I have two comments. First, I do the opposite. I had such a natural tendency to line up too thick, part of my PSR is to line up a tad too thin, exaggerating the openness of my lead foot a bit to do that. In the end, it gets me in the right line (or at least a better line). The other comment is that for certain shots like this one: Well, I was going to show you but cuetable.com insists that shockwave is all of a sudden not installed correctly no matter how many times I un- install and re-install it following the directions at cuetable.com. Something is broken somewhere. Anyway, for certain shots (very few) when I get down on the line that I think looks right, the little voice in the back of my head knows its thin or at least tells me I tend to overcut these shots for some reason. So I do better listening to the other voice and hitting them a little thicker than what looks right. Something like that may be going on with you for your shots. But I realize I'm saying something different. You are lining up wrong and correcting for what looks right. On these few shots, I am lining up right, and correcting for what looks a little wrong (to my conscience voice). :-) John Black ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com** |
| 02 May 2008 05:27:28 |
| Mark0 |
| Re: Lining up thick |
On May 1 2008 10:23 PM, Ed McCune wrote: > I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to > be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I > then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin > occasionally before settling into the shot. > > For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots and > increases my make % considerably. > > Ed > -- > mccune@standardab.ca IMO it's more likely to be helping because you're taking your time (not rushing, not taking the shots for granted). You'll know for sure if that trick stops helping after a while. But hey, whatever works, right? --Mark0 Author of Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job http://www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm _______________________________________________________________________ : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com |
| 02 May 2008 13:41:45 |
| lfigueroa |
| Re: Lining up thick |
There was a time I did this, but in the end, decided it was a bad thing. In my case, I'd set up thick and then use english to compensate. I started doing it on every shot and actually got pretty good at it. Then one day I finally decide that using all that english was a bad thing, so I started taking the time to set up right. Big difference. You really notice the difference when you have to stroke a shot. Lou Figueroa Ed McCune wrote: > I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to > be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I > then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin > occasionally before settling into the shot. > > For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots and > increases my make % considerably. > > Ed |
| 02 May 2008 16:40:33 |
| Ed McCune |
| Re: Lining up thick |
I'm adjusting back to the line rather than using English but on that note that is another thing I've been messing with a bit on the advice of a very strong nine ball player. On long back cuts he uses outside spin. Not to compensate for throw as many do, but simply because he can "feel" the aiming point better. I'm the same in that. A tad of outside and I can "feel" where to line up. Without it I aren't nearly so sure of myself. Ed lfigueroa wrote: > There was a time I did this, but in the end, decided it was a bad thing. > > In my case, I'd set up thick and then use english to compensate. I > started doing it on every shot and actually got pretty good at it. Then > one day I finally decide that using all that english was a bad thing, so > I started taking the time to set up right. Big difference. You really > notice the difference when you have to stroke a shot. > > Lou Figueroa > > > Ed McCune wrote: >> I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to >> be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I >> then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin >> occasionally before settling into the shot. >> >> For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots >> and increases my make % considerably. >> >> Ed -- mccune@standardab.ca |
| 02 May 2008 16:48:23 |
| Ed McCune |
| Re: Lining up thick |
John Black wrote: > In article <fvdtue$fjh$1@registered.motzarella.org>, > mccune@telusplanet.net says... >> I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult to >> be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. I >> then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin >> occasionally before settling into the shot. >> >> For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots and >> increases my make % considerably. > > Ok, who hijacked Ed's computer and is putting us on? I thought you were > Mr. don't do special things for "certain" shots? I.e. if lining up that > way on *those shots* is a good idea, it must be a good idea in general. > I also thought correcting the line while down in the stance was kind of > anti-orthdoxy as well? You have always been more realistic (than some) > about that one though, admitting that small adjustments are necessary > when down, but to delibrately line up wrong? -- that's surprising. I don't think it was me who was a big proponent of no special things but as a general rule I'm sure it is a good idea. However I've always believed pool is more psychological than mechanical (or at least as much so) and thus have always believed that you do what you must to visualize the shot properly. This is what it is all about really. Visualization. When you "see" the shot you make it. When you don't quite "see" it as well your make % goes down. That's visualization. As for adjustments...I've always believed we all make them even when we don't realize we are. Not only that but I think we continually adjust...minutely...even while in the midst of stroking. Any sort of human motion involving consistency behaves this way. Golfers don't swing in a true arc. The adjust even while swinging. Same as driving, cycling or any other motion. I realize this is all very anti-establishment but that's me....a rebel to the core... I still don't believe in object ball curve though. That's where I draw the line. Ed |
| 03 May 2008 00:08:51 |
| Ron Shepard |
| Re: Lining up thick |
In article <fvg5mq$vjv$1@registered.motzarella.org >, Ed McCune <mccune@telusplanet.net > wrote: > As for adjustments...I've always believed we all make them even when we > don't realize we are. Not only that but I think we continually > adjust...minutely...even while in the midst of stroking. I'm not sure this is good thing, but I certainly know that I adjust after getting into stance for a shot. On the other than, I have watched Jerry Briesath and Tom Rossman get in stance for a shot, look away from the ball, move their stick out of their bridge hand and point off in the distance somewhere to the side of the shot line, then (without looking) move the stick back to their bridge hand and successfully execute the shot. They can make even table-length shots this way. In order to do this, they must have a very good feel for a "standard" alignment. I've tried this, and I can't do it (at least I can't do it for anything other than a trivial shot). I can do pretty well if I line up the shot, look away (or shut my eyes), and then execute the stroke. But if I try the extra movement with the stick and arm, then I don't naturally get back in line for the shot. I think this means that I must adjust after getting into my stance, and I need the visual cues to make that adjustment correct. $.02 -Ron Shepard |
| 02 May 2008 23:37:25 |
| Ed McCune |
| Re: Lining up thick |
Ron Shepard wrote: > In article <fvg5mq$vjv$1@registered.motzarella.org>, > Ed McCune <mccune@telusplanet.net> wrote: > >> As for adjustments...I've always believed we all make them even when we >> don't realize we are. Not only that but I think we continually >> adjust...minutely...even while in the midst of stroking. > > I'm not sure this is good thing, but I certainly know that I adjust > after getting into stance for a shot. > > On the other than, I have watched Jerry Briesath and Tom Rossman get > in stance for a shot, look away from the ball, move their stick out > of their bridge hand and point off in the distance somewhere to the > side of the shot line, then (without looking) move the stick back to > their bridge hand and successfully execute the shot. They can make > even table-length shots this way. In order to do this, they must > have a very good feel for a "standard" alignment. I've tried this, > and I can't do it (at least I can't do it for anything other than a > trivial shot). > > I can do pretty well if I line up the shot, look away (or shut my > eyes), and then execute the stroke. But if I try the extra movement > with the stick and arm, then I don't naturally get back in line for > the shot. I think this means that I must adjust after getting into > my stance, and I need the visual cues to make that adjustment > correct. > > $.02 -Ron Shepard Interesting Ron but this doesn't mean these guys don't adjust minutely. Only that their adjustments are so ingrained and automatic that even after moving their cue they can feel, perhaps unconsciously, the adjustments that they must make. Of course without an exceptionally consistent setup they couldn't do this but it doesn't mean they don't adjust at all. I suspect even Tiger Woods makes unconscious adjustments as he is swinging. I'd like to see rotoscoping and a computer plot done on these types of motions from various angles and see the patterns traced on a computer screen by a spot on the tip of the cue/club head.. Better players would likely be much more consistent than others but I would wager their would still be a significant variation in the pattern formed by a dot on the cue tip or golf club head. The biggest difference with a pro would be that the tip/club head would end up at precisely the same spot on the cueball/golf ball regardless of the path it took to get there but with the rest of us the end contact position would vary quite a bit. Ed -- mccune@standardab.ca |
| 03 May 2008 13:08:59 |
| lfigueroa |
| Re: Lining up thick |
I will also confess to using english on these shots. But you have to factor in the speed of the shot too to gauge how much effect the english is going to have. Lou Figueroa Ed McCune wrote: > I'm adjusting back to the line rather than using English but on that > note that is another thing I've been messing with a bit on the advice of > a very strong nine ball player. On long back cuts he uses outside spin. > Not to compensate for throw as many do, but simply because he can "feel" > the aiming point better. I'm the same in that. A tad of outside and I > can "feel" where to line up. Without it I aren't nearly so sure of myself. > > Ed > > lfigueroa wrote: >> There was a time I did this, but in the end, decided it was a bad thing. >> >> In my case, I'd set up thick and then use english to compensate. I >> started doing it on every shot and actually got pretty good at it. >> Then one day I finally decide that using all that english was a bad >> thing, so I started taking the time to set up right. Big difference. >> You really notice the difference when you have to stroke a shot. >> >> Lou Figueroa >> >> >> Ed McCune wrote: >>> I've been experimenting a little lately, just for certain difficult >>> to be certain of shots, with deliberately lining up just a tad thick. >>> I then correct when into my stance and even over correct to too thin >>> occasionally before settling into the shot. >>> >>> For some reason this helps me clarify my visualization of some shots >>> and increases my make % considerably. >>> >>> Ed > |
| 03 May 2008 13:13:05 |
| lfigueroa |
| Re: Lining up thick |
Oh yeah. Little things like just tightening or relaxing your bridge; adding or eliminating a touch of downward cue stick angle; maybe a slight adjustment to your grip hand. And then of course, your trying to get a feel for your final stroke speed and even the type of delivery you want to use, like long and smooth vs popping the stroke. Lou Figueroa Ed McCune wrote: > > As for adjustments...I've always believed we all make them even when we > don't realize we are. Not only that but I think we continually > adjust...minutely...even while in the midst of stroking. Any sort of > human motion involving consistency behaves this way. Golfers don't swing > in a true arc. The adjust even while swinging. Same as driving, cycling > or any other motion. > > I realize this is all very anti-establishment but that's me....a rebel > to the core... > > I still don't believe in object ball curve though. That's where I draw > the line. > > Ed |
| 03 May 2008 13:16:28 |
| lfigueroa |
| Re: Lining up thick |
It's just a trick shot that anyone can do with a little practice. I think I once posted here that as an experiment I popped a rack open and then proceeded to run the rack, closing my eyes before pulling the trigger for each shot. (I think this was in one of those aiming system threads :-) Lou Figueroa Ron Shepard wrote: > > On the other than, I have watched Jerry Briesath and Tom Rossman get > in stance for a shot, look away from the ball, move their stick out > of their bridge hand and point off in the distance somewhere to the > side of the shot line, then (without looking) move the stick back to > their bridge hand and successfully execute the shot. They can make > even table-length shots this way. In order to do this, they must > have a very good feel for a "standard" alignment. I've tried this, > and I can't do it (at least I can't do it for anything other than a > trivial shot). > > I can do pretty well if I line up the shot, look away (or shut my > eyes), and then execute the stroke. But if I try the extra movement > with the stick and arm, then I don't naturally get back in line for > the shot. I think this means that I must adjust after getting into > my stance, and I need the visual cues to make that adjustment > correct. > > $.02 -Ron Shepard |
| 03 May 2008 09:26:01 |
| Ron Shepard |
| Re: Lining up thick |
In article <MAZSj.154652$D_3.53949@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >, lfigueroa <lfigueroa@att.net > wrote: > It's just a trick shot that anyone can do with a little practice. I > think I once posted here that as an experiment I popped a rack open and > then proceeded to run the rack, closing my eyes before pulling the > trigger for each shot. (I think this was in one of those aiming system > threads :-) As I said before, I can do this pretty well too if I don't add the middle part about moving the stick. I can even do table length draw shots this way when I'm generally playing well (although not when I'm playing poorly, so this is a good thermometer for me). But if I add the stick movement part in the middle, then I just don't have a good feel for getting the stick back in line exactly the way it was before. The fact that some players can do this consistently I think means that they have more of an ingrained reference point than I do. Try running a rack with and without the stick movement and see how much of a difference there is for you. If you can do this, especially with little or no practice, then maybe that is why you are shooting for the goal of running 100 on two consecutive days, and I'm still trying for my first 100 run. $.02 -Ron Shepard |
| 03 May 2008 10:46:34 |
| George |
| Re: Lining up thick |
> > On the other than, I have watched Jerry Briesath and Tom Rossman get > in stance for a shot, look away from the ball, move their stick out > of their bridge hand and point off in the distance somewhere to the > side of the shot line, then (without looking) move the stick back to > their bridge hand and successfully execute the shot. They can make > even table-length shots this way. In order to do this, they must > have a very good feel for a "standard" alignment. I've tried this, > and I can't do it (at least I can't do it for anything other than a > trivial shot). > Ron, The ability to make this trick shot (line up, look away from shot, swing stick tip out and tap something, replace in bridge and shoot without ever looking back at the table) is not that hard to develop, even for a just-decent player. In college I saw somebody, maybe Mizerak, do it in an exhibition, so I tried it. It wasn't too hard. I got to where I could make spot shots pretty reliably this way. I will admit to using it as a shark technique; warming up before a tournament, I waited until the main competition was watching me practice, then I'd say "Check this out!" and set up a normal spot shot, line up, then look over at him, tap him on the knee with the cue, then keep looking at him as I made the shot. I haven't practiced it in a long time so I probably can't do it well now. But I wasn't a particularly good player even then (probably similar to now: two 9- ball runouts in a row is an unusual night). So I don't think the ability to do longish shots this way is evidence of Briesath-level stroke technique. -George. |
| 05 May 2008 13:00:22 |
| lfigueroa |
| Re: Lining up thick |
oh yeah. The moving the stick part makes it tougher, no doubt. But I've done it. I use to be able to run balls, shooting with the cue between my legs, too. But I'm not quite as limber anymore :-) Lou Figueroa so many lost talents Ron Shepard wrote: > In article > <MAZSj.154652$D_3.53949@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > lfigueroa <lfigueroa@att.net> wrote: > >> It's just a trick shot that anyone can do with a little practice. I >> think I once posted here that as an experiment I popped a rack open and >> then proceeded to run the rack, closing my eyes before pulling the >> trigger for each shot. (I think this was in one of those aiming system >> threads :-) > > As I said before, I can do this pretty well too if I don't add the > middle part about moving the stick. I can even do table length draw > shots this way when I'm generally playing well (although not when > I'm playing poorly, so this is a good thermometer for me). But if I > add the stick movement part in the middle, then I just don't have a > good feel for getting the stick back in line exactly the way it was > before. The fact that some players can do this consistently I think > means that they have more of an ingrained reference point than I do. > > Try running a rack with and without the stick movement and see how > much of a difference there is for you. If you can do this, > especially with little or no practice, then maybe that is why you > are shooting for the goal of running 100 on two consecutive days, > and I'm still trying for my first 100 run. > > $.02 -Ron Shepard |
| 05 May 2008 10:12:19 |
| pltrgyst |
| Re: Lining up thick |
On Mon, 05 May 2008 13:00:22 GMT, lfigueroa <lfigueroa@att.net > wrote: >I use to be able to run balls, shooting with the cue between my legs, >too. But I'm not quite as limber anymore :-) Or as tall? -- Larry |
| 05 May 2008 07:19:59 |
| David The Hamster Malone |
| Re: Lining up thick |
On May 5, 9:00=A0am, lfigueroa <lfigue...@att.net > wrote: > I use to be able to run balls, shooting with the cue between my legs, That's not a cue... didn't your Mom tell you you can go blind? David "The Hamster" Malone |
| 06 May 2008 09:04:26 |
| JakartaDean |
| Re: Lining up thick |
David "The Hamster" Malone wrote: > That's not a cue... didn't your Mom tell you you can go blind? ^^^ ^^^ Or repeat yourself without knowing it? Dean (he he he) |