More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

29 Apr 2008 00:46:47

lfigueroa

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2266579433511197986

Lou Figueroa

28 Apr 2008 19:56:51

Bob Keller

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Nibble, nibble.......munch, munch.....................
what's this - she doesn't know what break shot to shoot? Hasn't she
practiced this at all? <scoffing >

Nibble, munch................chew, chew................
well, she sure is taking her time and executing well, no showboating at all.
Very serious. <complimentary >

Swallow, bite...............nibble, chew.....................
hmmm, she missed an easy break-out in the first rack (?) then finished with
four tough shots to get on the break ball well. Nice..............I gotta
watch the rest..................

This is pretty tasty, Lou, thanks and keep'em coming.

Bob Keller

"lfigueroa" <lfigueroa@att.net > wrote in message
news:XduRj.137147$D_3.125373@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2266579433511197986
>
> Lou Figueroa

28 Apr 2008 20:46:49

Bob Keller

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
you've posted so far is startling. I also have to admit that her play is
exactly how **I** play when I'm not playing well:

- Lot's of trouble getting through a rack
- can't get clusters open or trouble balls removed until late
- struggling with the end ball pattern - shooting 9-ball type shots to get
on the break ball
- no runs over 3 racks, runs get shorter and shorter as the session goes

Personally, I think she was a little intimidated by the conditions and was
really trying to execute carefully, and ya can't get into a rythmn doing
that. It was enlightening to me because I think her misses were not caused
by "missing" by leaving herself too tough and not playing a better pattern
from a few shots earlier. That's a good lesson for me.

Also, that side pocket break shot is also poor because it tends to leave
clusters in the middle of the table and/or leave most of the balls on one
side of the table. I don't see anyone coming up with a better opening break
shot than John Schmidts.

Bob Keller

"lfigueroa" <lfigueroa@att.net > wrote in message
news:XduRj.137147$D_3.125373@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2266579433511197986
>
> Lou Figueroa

29 Apr 2008 11:10:39

JakartaDean

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

29 Apr 2008 00:09:34

John Black

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <pJCdnSz9PMnZEYvVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@comcast.com >, rjk1962
@comcast.net says...
> Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
> you've posted so far is startling.

Really? I've watched her chew through 2 racks and so far I'm more
impressed with her than with Duel.

John Black
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com**

29 Apr 2008 07:53:29

Jack Stein

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Bob Keller wrote:

> Personally, I think she was a little intimidated by the conditions and was
> really trying to execute carefully, and ya can't get into a rythmn doing
> that. It was enlightening to me because I think her misses were not caused
> by "missing" by leaving herself too tough and not playing a better pattern
> from a few shots earlier. That's a good lesson for me.

I think it was pretty obvious she doesn't play 14.1 much, if ever. Just
the opening shot shows she has never played whatever format of a
challenge match this is. She is still my favorite woman player but I
have to say thank god for the scroll bar so I could take most of the
pain out of her struggle to figure out what to do next.

I'm not a big fan of watching slow play, and these 14.1 matches are
taking their toll on me. Yesterday I watched a few Earl Strickland 9
ball matches, I think from around 1995, he beat Reyes like 8 to 3
someone else pretty good and got beat by Bustamante. Earl was the
absolute best player to watch play pool. He was flying through the
racks, just the way you would expect a PRO to play, getting perfect 3
and 4 rail shape at will. If everyone played like the Pearl, pool would
be on TV for sure.

Oh, the camera man sucked on this one. Besides the audio being totally
screwed, the ONLY thing he had to do was get all the pockets in the
video, and he only needed to do that ONCE, and he didn't manage to do it.

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

29 Apr 2008 12:34:39

lfigueroa

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

well, right off the bat, if you watch her go through the first rack, by
the time she's half way through it she got balls left all over the
table. Same with the second rack -- her last three are all over. The
end sequence of the third rack was just painful to watch. (By the way,
did you see the adjustment she makes while down in shooting position on
the break shot to get into the fourth rack? Of course, she misses.)

I agree with you that she needed to take slightly more difficult shots
earlier in the racks to reap the benefits (and avoid the problems) later on.

Lou Figueroa

Bob Keller wrote:
> Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
> you've posted so far is startling. I also have to admit that her play is
> exactly how **I** play when I'm not playing well:
>
> - Lot's of trouble getting through a rack
> - can't get clusters open or trouble balls removed until late
> - struggling with the end ball pattern - shooting 9-ball type shots to get
> on the break ball
> - no runs over 3 racks, runs get shorter and shorter as the session goes
>
> Personally, I think she was a little intimidated by the conditions and was
> really trying to execute carefully, and ya can't get into a rythmn doing
> that. It was enlightening to me because I think her misses were not caused
> by "missing" by leaving herself too tough and not playing a better pattern
> from a few shots earlier. That's a good lesson for me.
>
> Also, that side pocket break shot is also poor because it tends to leave
> clusters in the middle of the table and/or leave most of the balls on one
> side of the table. I don't see anyone coming up with a better opening break
> shot than John Schmidts.
>
> Bob Keller
>
>
>
> "lfigueroa" <lfigueroa@att.net> wrote in message
> news:XduRj.137147$D_3.125373@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2266579433511197986
>>
>> Lou Figueroa
>
>

29 Apr 2008 12:36:08

lfigueroa

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Yeah, there's a certain drama queen element when she shoots. Same with
having to take time tying up the ponytail. I mean, if you know your
hair is going to be a problem, you show up with it tied up.

Lou Figueroa

JakartaDean wrote:
> Bob Keller wrote:
>> Personally, I think she was a little intimidated by the conditions and
>> was really trying to execute carefully, and ya can't get into a rythmn
>> doing that. It was enlightening to me because I think her misses were
>> not caused by "missing" by leaving herself too tough and not playing a
>> better pattern from a few shots earlier. That's a good lesson for me.
>>
> I'm gonna guess you're right, Bob, after watching 1:42 of the video
> before she breaks. With ball and one object ball in hand.
>
> I mean, wouldn't you have some idea of how you wanted to break *before*
> you approached the table?
>
> Dean <-- still couldn't beat her, by a long shot

29 Apr 2008 12:38:37

lfigueroa

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

It's a fixed camera up on a scaffold for all these videos. Bob was a
one-man band for all these, watching the computer hook up to the camera
and keeping score for most of this.

Lou Figueroa

Jack Stein wrote:
> Bob Keller wrote:
>
>> Personally, I think she was a little intimidated by the conditions and
>> was really trying to execute carefully, and ya can't get into a rythmn
>> doing that. It was enlightening to me because I think her misses were
>> not caused by "missing" by leaving herself too tough and not playing a
>> better pattern from a few shots earlier. That's a good lesson for me.
>
> I think it was pretty obvious she doesn't play 14.1 much, if ever. Just
> the opening shot shows she has never played whatever format of a
> challenge match this is. She is still my favorite woman player but I
> have to say thank god for the scroll bar so I could take most of the
> pain out of her struggle to figure out what to do next.
>
> I'm not a big fan of watching slow play, and these 14.1 matches are
> taking their toll on me. Yesterday I watched a few Earl Strickland 9
> ball matches, I think from around 1995, he beat Reyes like 8 to 3
> someone else pretty good and got beat by Bustamante. Earl was the
> absolute best player to watch play pool. He was flying through the
> racks, just the way you would expect a PRO to play, getting perfect 3
> and 4 rail shape at will. If everyone played like the Pearl, pool would
> be on TV for sure.
>
> Oh, the camera man sucked on this one. Besides the audio being totally
> screwed, the ONLY thing he had to do was get all the pockets in the
> video, and he only needed to do that ONCE, and he didn't manage to do it.
>

29 Apr 2008 09:54:40

Ron Shepard

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <MPG.2280698abc37403a989a2f@free.teranews.com >,
John Black <jblack@texas.net > wrote:

> In article <pJCdnSz9PMnZEYvVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, rjk1962
> @comcast.net says...
> > Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
> > you've posted so far is startling.
>
> Really? I've watched her chew through 2 racks and so far I'm more
> impressed with her than with Duel.

I agree. It is clear that she has at least played 14.1 before.
Corey plays 14.1 just about the way I do, although he makes the
all-too-often difficult shots more consistently than I do and
therefore sustains longer runs. But he plays breakouts the wrong
way (the same that I do), he missed several easy patterns due to
poor position play (the same that I do), and his break shots were
too difficult because he played the wrong pattern on the last few
balls (the same way that I screw them up). Anyone know what their
high runs are? I have read that Jeanette has run 100 many times,
but I don't know anything about Corey.

In any case, it is clear even to a 14.1 dufus like me that Niels
Feijen plays the game much better than either Corey or Jeanette.

$.02 -Ron Shepard

29 Apr 2008 08:55:51

Bob Keller

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

"lfigueroa" <lfigueroa@att.net > wrote in message
news:zBERj.138490$D_3.77497@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> well, right off the bat, if you watch her go through the first rack, by
> the time she's half way through it she got balls left all over the table.
> Same with the second rack -- her last three are all over. The end
> sequence of the third rack was just painful to watch. (By the way, did
> you see the adjustment she makes while down in shooting position on the
> break shot to get into the fourth rack? Of course, she misses.)
>
> I agree with you that she needed to take slightly more difficult shots
> earlier in the racks to reap the benefits (and avoid the problems) later
> on.
>

Oh! That's a very astute observation. Same thing happens to me (and I
assume everyone) and during other games too. You get kinda nervous and so
you choose the easy shot over the slightly harder "correct" shot. It always
leads to having to shoot an even tougher shot a few shots later. You have
to play with confidence to take on the "correct" shot at all times.

Bob Keller

29 Apr 2008 15:05:16

John Black

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <ron-shepard-B523AF.09544029042008@comcast.dca.giganews.com >,
ron-shepard@NOSPAM.comcast.net says...
> Anyone know what their
> high runs are? I have read that Jeanette has run 100 many times,
> but I don't know anything about Corey.

No but after watching her run 3 racks on her first try and getting a
decent break shot on the 4th rack which she unfortunately missed, I can
see her running 100. Its clear she doesn't have as much 14.1 knowledge
as some people, but she seems to have more than Corey and the knowledge
she does have coupled with a strong general game can produce results.

John Black
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com**

29 Apr 2008 15:08:37

John Black

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <hFERj.138501$D_3.34116@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
lfigueroa@att.net says...
> It's a fixed camera up on a scaffold for all these videos. Bob was a
> one-man band for all these, watching the computer hook up to the camera
> and keeping score for most of this.

Actually I love this fixed camera. I always see what I want to see.
One of my biggest complaints about ESPN and other coverage is they often
break the camera away from what I really want to see. I want to see the
path of the cueball more than anything, and I often can't in other
formats. The worst offender and the dumbest idea in all of pool is the
Simmonis Pocket Cam. Ug.

John Black
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com**

29 Apr 2008 13:39:22

cuetable

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Well, let's make it into something MORE PEOPLE can nibble on in the
future... We need to work together :)

Check out http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=1692

As I have mentioned in other places, I hope people should give some
thoughts to the followings:

0, support Bob's event by signing up or helping with videos (thx again to
elvicash)

1, study the video carefully,
2, pause at every key point during the run,
3, ask questions,
4, draw the layout on CueTable,
5, have a public discussion,
6, share all the knowledge together.
7, archive 1-6 for the future generation.

A lot of these have already happened on different places. All straight
pool fans should help organize them together. We have worked hard to make
CueTable Library the archival place for people.

1, It is not necessary a chat room
2, It has a system for cataloging and searching
3, It utilize current technologies

Here are 30+ Youtube / Google 14.1 videos we found online, made by kind
people..

http://library.cuetable.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85

We should take full advantage of the technology when it is readily here,
the whole WeiTable idea has been already 10 years old. There are many more
things I plan on creating to help the pool world... Your involvement is
crucial here :)

Cheers
Wei

[ CueTable.com ] - Line Up Your Best Shot!

*Want to get quality advice from professional instructors? Please post
your questions in http://poolcoach.cuetable.com

---�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

29 Apr 2008 13:56:17

Thyme3421

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

My favorite part is in the first rack (maybe 2nd, I forget) where she
developed the 8 ball from a B ball... into a break ball. I could see
myself attempting that shot, but over shooting it and not having enough
english and end up putting the 8 near the side pocket...err somethin' like
that

I like what someone said (lou, I think...) about how she worked easy in
the start of the rack and made it so she had to work hard at the end of
the rack.
If she worked harder at the start of the rack... and then give herself a
little bit of relief towards the end of the rack... it's possible she
wouldn't have lost the intense concentration that she had at the start of
the video.

-Duane Edwards << saw her adjust her aim when she missed that break ball
"Good enough to win money, not good enough to make it."
http://diamondstopockets.blogspot.com

On Apr 28 2008 6:46 PM, lfigueroa wrote:

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2266579433511197986
>
> Lou Figueroa

-----�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com

30 Apr 2008 07:19:52

Jack Stein

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

I know it's a fixed camera, thats why I kept saying the "camera man" did
a great job, better than ESPN guys. Just in this particular case, the
fixed camera sort of missed one of the pockets and all the camera man
had to do was get all the pockets in view, and only had to do it once.
My camera comments are mostly humor, with the side value that points out
filming a pool match requires almost ZERO camera work, just set up two
camera's at each end of the table and thats it, one camera for 14.1 and
I guess 1 pocket matches. Compare this to golf, where 10 Million in
camera equipment and personnel is needed, probably a lot more, just to
get one lousy match on tape.

Who is Bob?

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

lfigueroa wrote:
> It's a fixed camera up on a scaffold for all these videos. Bob was a
> one-man band for all these, watching the computer hook up to the camera
> and keeping score for most of this.

> Jack Stein wrote:

>> Oh, the camera man sucked on this one. Besides the audio being
>> totally screwed, the ONLY thing he had to do was get all the pockets
>> in the video, and he only needed to do that ONCE, and he didn't manage
>> to do it.
>>

30 Apr 2008 07:44:57

Jack Stein

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

Ron Shepard wrote:

> John Black <jblack@texas.net> wrote:

>>> Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
>>> you've posted so far is startling.

>> Really? I've watched her chew through 2 racks and so far I'm more
>> impressed with her than with Duel.

I thought Duel ran a 100 at least once, possibly twice or was that
someone else?

> I agree. It is clear that she has at least played 14.1 before.
> Corey plays 14.1 just about the way I do, although he makes the
> all-too-often difficult shots more consistently than I do and
> therefore sustains longer runs.

That's how I felt about Lee. She took forever to decide what to do, and
that's because she doesn't know and has to think about everything
forever. Lee is not normally a slow player, but she sure was slow in
this thing.

> In any case, it is clear even to a 14.1 dufus like me that Niels
> Feijen plays the game much better than either Corey or Jeanette.

I like the way Thomas Engert and John Schmidt played in the PPV 14.1
match. Even though I know almost ZIP about 14.1, I know they played the
game as it should be played. The commentary is great as well.

http://propoolvideo.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/limit,21/limitstart,21/

Only problem is they both played so perfect it is hard to critique
anything they did, other than the lousy safety play of Engert. I was
able to watch the entire match, and I watched all of Duels "match". I
was not able to watch all of Lees and I was fast forwarding past much of
her indecision...

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

30 Apr 2008 11:57:30

lfigueroa

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

To me, Corey was a much better 14.1 player. He was definitely more
comfortable manipulating the CB. JL, basically just went straight
forward or backward with her CB and I think that's why she was having so
much trouble.

Lou Figueroa

Ron Shepard wrote:
> In article <MPG.2280698abc37403a989a2f@free.teranews.com>,
> John Black <jblack@texas.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <pJCdnSz9PMnZEYvVnZ2dnUVZ_uGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, rjk1962
>> @comcast.net says...
>>> Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
>>> you've posted so far is startling.
>> Really? I've watched her chew through 2 racks and so far I'm more
>> impressed with her than with Duel.
>
> I agree. It is clear that she has at least played 14.1 before.
> Corey plays 14.1 just about the way I do, although he makes the
> all-too-often difficult shots more consistently than I do and
> therefore sustains longer runs. But he plays breakouts the wrong
> way (the same that I do), he missed several easy patterns due to
> poor position play (the same that I do), and his break shots were
> too difficult because he played the wrong pattern on the last few
> balls (the same way that I screw them up). Anyone know what their
> high runs are? I have read that Jeanette has run 100 many times,
> but I don't know anything about Corey.
>
> In any case, it is clear even to a 14.1 dufus like me that Niels
> Feijen plays the game much better than either Corey or Jeanette.
>
> $.02 -Ron Shepard

30 Apr 2008 09:36:31

John Black

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <RrGdnZSiSMQqxoXVnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@comcast.com >, jbstein2
@comcast.net says...
> Ron Shepard wrote:
>
> > John Black <jblack@texas.net> wrote:
>
> >>> Well, I gotta say that the difference between Jeanette and the men players
> >>> you've posted so far is startling.
>
> >> Really? I've watched her chew through 2 racks and so far I'm more
> >> impressed with her than with Duel.
>
> I thought Duel ran a 100 at least once, possibly twice or was that
> someone else?

That was the Niels Feijen video. If Deuel (I was spelling his name
wrong) ran 100 also, I stand corrected but I don't remember that.

> I like the way Thomas Engert and John Schmidt played in the PPV 14.1
> match. Even though I know almost ZIP about 14.1, I know they played the
> game as it should be played. The commentary is great as well.
>
> http://propoolvideo.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/limit,21/limitstart,21/

Great match! Thanks for the link. I really like how someone took the
time to edit out the pauses in the action (racking, walking around the
table, thinking). Very nice touch.

John Black
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com**

30 Apr 2008 10:27:58

Bob Keller

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

"Jack Stein" <jbstein2@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:kb2dneLIVoZLyIXVnZ2dnUVZ_ramnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I know it's a fixed camera, thats why I kept saying the "camera man" did a
>great job, better than ESPN guys. Just in this particular case, the fixed
>camera sort of missed one of the pockets and all the camera man had to do
>was get all the pockets in view, and only had to do it once. My camera
>comments are mostly humor, with the side value that points out filming a
>pool match requires almost ZERO camera work, just set up two camera's at
>each end of the table and thats it, one camera for 14.1 and I guess 1
>pocket matches. Compare this to golf, where 10 Million in camera equipment
>and personnel is needed, probably a lot more, just to get one lousy match
>on tape.
>
> Who is Bob?
>

The 14.1 challenge at Derby City is all due to and run by Bob Jewett. I tip
my hat to him MANY times over.

Bob Keller

01 May 2008 07:11:48

Jack Stein

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

John Black wrote:

>> I thought Duel ran a 100 at least once, possibly twice or was that
>> someone else?
>
> That was the Niels Feijen video. If Deuel (I was spelling his name
> wrong) ran 100 also, I stand corrected but I don't remember that.

I don't recall either. I think he may have missed after 76 balls?
Someone did anyway:-) I thought I spelled his name wrong and went back
and looked at how you spelled it... Ooops.

>> I like the way Thomas Engert and John Schmidt played in the PPV 14.1
>> match. Even though I know almost ZIP about 14.1, I know they played the
>> game as it should be played. The commentary is great as well.
>>
>> http://propoolvideo.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/limit,21/limitstart,21/
>
> Great match! Thanks for the link. I really like how someone took the
> time to edit out the pauses in the action (racking, walking around the
> table, thinking). Very nice touch.

All the PPV video's are edited like this. About my only complaint with
Jorge is sometimes he, or someone, gets carried away with the zoom. If
I get to noticing all the zooming in and out, it really starts to bug
me. Very little zooming is needed in a pool match, as the 14.1 challenge
match videos prove. Jorge is ok though, he rarely misses showing
whities path to victory, unlike the geniuses at ESPN. If ESPN fired
their pool camera guys and editors and hired Jorge they would do a lot
better, and hire some good commentators as well.

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

01 May 2008 08:39:05

John Black

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

In article <4qGdnfh1kLzuOITVnZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@comcast.com >, jbstein2
@comcast.net says...
> I thought I spelled his name wrong and went back
> and looked at how you spelled it... Ooops.

I've seen more variations on how his name is spelled than probably any
other player. Corey and Cory. And probably 5 or more variations Deuel.
You can search for all of them and find those variations on google
(including in tournaments and online magazines) making you think you
guessed right when really you are just finding other people who are
spelling it wrong...

John Black
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com**

02 May 2008 13:50:02

lfigueroa

Re: More Stuff to ... um, well, Nibble On.

oh yeah. These vids are all thanks to Bob and also Dennis Walsh (I
think) who is putting them up.

Lou Figueroa

Bob Keller wrote:
> "Jack Stein" <jbstein2@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:kb2dneLIVoZLyIXVnZ2dnUVZ_ramnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> I know it's a fixed camera, thats why I kept saying the "camera man" did a
>> great job, better than ESPN guys. Just in this particular case, the fixed
>> camera sort of missed one of the pockets and all the camera man had to do
>> was get all the pockets in view, and only had to do it once. My camera
>> comments are mostly humor, with the side value that points out filming a
>> pool match requires almost ZERO camera work, just set up two camera's at
>> each end of the table and thats it, one camera for 14.1 and I guess 1
>> pocket matches. Compare this to golf, where 10 Million in camera equipment
>> and personnel is needed, probably a lot more, just to get one lousy match
>> on tape.
>>
>> Who is Bob?
>>
>
> The 14.1 challenge at Derby City is all due to and run by Bob Jewett. I tip
> my hat to him MANY times over.
>
> Bob Keller
>
>