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| 03 Nov 2003 13:41:12 |
| Mike Holmans |
| The original TAV |
Here's a passage from Marcus Berkmann's "Rain Men", which is mostly about his social club team, the Captain Scott Invitational XI, but also includes some reflections on cricket on a somewhat more exalted plane. This is a rhapsody to the phenomenal Chris Tavare: "As Botham brought the crowd to its feet, Tavare did his utmost to make them sit down again. Here was dullness personified, a walking, twitching anaesthetic. With his long face and little moustache, Tavare was cricketer-as-bank clerk, a batsman apparently devoid of all personality. At the other end was a man larger than life; at Tavare's end, a man so much smaller than life that electron microscopes might reasonably have been called into action. I knew instinctively that he was just as singular as Botham, and in many ways more interesting. "For Tavare never disappointed you. Others came in, flashed about, irresponsibly scored a few runs, but Tavare just stayed there, prodding. After each ball he walked a few feet to square leg, paused, amd walked back again. This became compulsive to watch. Every ball: prod, pause, walk, pause, walk, pause, prod. This was cricket for which normal states of consciousness simply did not prepare you. Botham's batting was an affirmation of life. Tavare's batting was a denial of hope. Life was to be battled through, although to what end remained uncertain. As Tavare's endless innings proceeded, and bodies fell with increasing regularity from tenth-storey windows, the sheer grinding pointlessness of his unflinching concentration took on a significance of its own. There was a stillness at the heart of a Tavare innings that was almost Nordic in its bleakness. Had Ingmar Bergman been at Old Trafford that day, I feel sure that he would have identified Tavare as a kindred spirit. Geoffrey Boycott is fond of expressing the conviction that if you stay there long enough, runs will automatically come. Not with Tavare, they didn't. If he stayed there long enough, then at the end of it, he was still there. He was the ultimate existential cricketer. "His finest hour came in Madras in January 1982. There, on a classic subcontinental featherbed, Keith Fletcher told his batsmen to 'bat as long as you like'. We can only imagine the whoops of joy that Tavare uttered on receiving such an instruction. On the other hand, perhaps we can't: even in a state of ecstasy, it's hard to imagine Tavare doing much more than raisng a thoughtful eyebrow. And so, with teeth gritted and not a single thought of crashing off-drives or square cuts on his mind, Tavare walked out with Graham Gooch to open the batting. Gooch, who obviously hadn't been paying attention, passed 50 in an hour on his way to a fluent 127. Tavare scored 35 in 5 hours and 34 minutes. That's a run every 9 minutes and 32.6 seconds. What cruelty to inflict on the eager Indian public. What joy for his fans back home. My only regret is that I was not there to see it. Trees have grown more quickly than Tavare batted that day. "But we live in a shallow, facile world whose citizens demand endless excitement to enrich their otherwise drab lives. Tavare's feats of concentration were regarded with contempt by spectators and journalists alike. He became - one dreads to mention it even now - something of a figure of fun. Eventually even the England management tired of his supreme single-mindedness. Tavare was dropped, and returned to the relative obscurity of county cricket. How casually we waste talent in this country." Ah, happy memories..... Cheers, Mike |
| 03 Nov 2003 15:04:13 |
| Toby Briggs |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk > wrote in message news:3FA65AF7.7B98CBAD@jackalope.demon.co.uk... > Here's a passage from Marcus Berkmann's "Rain Men", which is mostly > about his social club team, the Captain Scott Invitational XI, but also > includes some reflections on cricket on a somewhat more exalted plane. This is a great book - I got it for a Xmas present back in 1997, and have read it at least a dozen times! Well worth a stocking filler for Xmas, for any cricket lover! I recommend it highly. Cheers Toby -- Toby Briggs www.worldcricketacademy.com |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:04:07 |
| Robbert ter Hart |
| Re: The original TAV |
I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? Robbert -- "The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the-the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003 |
| 05 Nov 2003 00:22:48 |
| Mad Hamish |
| Re: The original TAV |
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" <rterhart@spj.nl > wrote: >I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? > Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s -- "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 Mad Hamish Hamish Laws h_laws@aardvark.net.au |
| 04 Nov 2003 13:30:54 |
| Mike Holmans |
| Re: The original TAV |
Mad Hamish wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" > <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: > > >I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? > > > > Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your comparative religion classes. > Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s Why "borderline"? Cheers, Mike |
| 05 Nov 2003 03:10:13 |
| Aditya Basrur |
| Re: The original TAV |
Mike Holmans wrote: > Mad Hamish wrote: >> >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" >> <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: >> >>> I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? >>> >> >> Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu > > Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your > comparative religion classes. Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious company. This is, by the way, a nickname given to him by certain fanatics on the newsgroup. I don't think too many Hindus worship him, and as far as I know, the only temples to him in India are called Wankhede and Chepauk. >> Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s > > Why "borderline"? > Because he seldom hit sixes. The ball always *just* crossed the line on the boundary, rather than sailing over it. Hamish probably associates him with the ball crossing the borderline. -- Aditya |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:15:31 |
| Ferine Boncer |
| Re: The original TAV |
Aditya Basrur <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com > wrote: > Mike Holmans wrote: > > Mad Hamish wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" > >> <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: > >> > >>> I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? > >>> > >> > >> Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu > > > > Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your > > comparative religion classes. > > Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious company. Er, not by all accounts... In fact, it's only micky-mouse publications (such as A.C.Katha) that have propogated this, IMO... In fact, if you include Buddha, there's no place for SRT :) > > This is, by the way, a nickname given to him by certain fanatics on the > newsgroup. I don't think too many Hindus worship him, and as far as I know, > the only temples to him in India are called Wankhede and Chepauk. Cheers |
| 05 Nov 2003 03:29:15 |
| Aditya Basrur |
| Re: The original TAV |
Ferine Boncer wrote: <snip > >> Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious company. > > Er, not by all accounts... > > In fact, it's only micky-mouse publications (such as A.C.Katha) that > have propogated this, IMO... > > In fact, if you include Buddha, there's no place for SRT :) My apologies. I am an Amar Chitra Katha kid; I do rely on it for much of my knowledge. (Happens when you grow up abroad, I guess.) I've read several versions of the Mahabharat when much younger, though much of it escapes me. Which one would you say is the 9th avatar, then? My listing is something like: 1. Matsya (big fish) 2. Kurma (tortoise) 3. Varaha (boar) 4. Narasimha (man-lion - Prahlad's saviuor) 5. Vamana (Dwarf who took three steps) 6. Parshuram 7. Ram 8. Krishna 9. Buddha 10. Kaliki My issues on this theory are outlined at http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=1a2685e3 .0303020503.eb4847c%40posting.google.com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26ie%3DISO-8859-1%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Daditya%252Btendulkar%2Bauthor%253Ade vdas%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch. Apologies for the profanity there, but it's not mine. -- Aditya |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:39:52 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
<SNIP > > "But we live in a shallow, facile world whose citizens > demand endless excitement to enrich their otherwise drab > lives. Tavare's feats of concentration were regarded with > contempt by spectators and journalists alike. He became - > one dreads to mention it even now - something of a figure > of fun. Eventually even the England management tired of > his supreme single-mindedness. Tavare was dropped, and > returned to the relative obscurity of county cricket. How > casually we waste talent in this country." Marvellous. I suppose there were jokes about that new species of curry The Tavare: It gives you the runs but very, very slowly. |
| 04 Nov 2003 20:12:48 |
| Cricketislife! |
| Re: The original TAV |
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:29:15 +1300, "Aditya Basrur" <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com > wrote: > >My apologies. I am an Amar Chitra Katha kid; I do rely on it for much of my >knowledge. (Happens when you grow up abroad, I guess.) I've read several >versions of the Mahabharat when much younger, though much of it escapes me. >Which one would you say is the 9th avatar, then? > >My listing is something like: >1. Matsya (big fish) >2. Kurma (tortoise) >3. Varaha (boar) >4. Narasimha (man-lion - Prahlad's saviuor) >5. Vamana (Dwarf who took three steps) >6. Parshuram >7. Ram >8. Krishna >9. Buddha >10. Kaliki IT depends . In south India, it is Balrama, in Northern tradition it is at places Buddha . they say Balarama is just the avatar of the Serpent that Vishnu reclines in, shesh nag. Some say Buddha and some say there are more avatars! +++ Vishnu is generally held to have ten incarnations, but the number ten is much less ‘traditional’ than is commonly believed. The Matsya Purana (47.32-52), for instance, enumerates twelve avatars, while the Garuda Purana (1.12-35) mentions twenty-two. The Bhagavata Purana likewise mentions twenty-two incarnations, but after enumerating them, it adds: "The incarnations of Vishnu are innumerable, like the rivulets flowing from an inexhaustible lake. Rishis, Manus, gods, sons of Manus, Prajapatis, are all portions of him." The ten incarnations of Vishnu take us from lower forms of evolution to divinities that appear in the guise of men. Though some might read in the narrative of the avatars a strict linear progression, the numerous texts belie such a mechanical interpretation http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Religions/Avatars/Vishnu.html .... }Krishna, the eighth avatara, was similarly most likely a hero or minor king at first, and in the Mahabharata he is described as a prince of the Yadava clan. He was eventually absorbed into the pantheon of Vishnu’s avatars, but assumed such importance that he was taken to be the Supreme Being himself. The Buddha appears as the ninth avatar, according to the puranas, and some scholars have pointed to this as an illustration of the tendency within Hinduism to absorb its rivals. Finally, the tenth avatar is yet to appear at the end of the present or kali-yuga: it is represented as Kalki, a figure seated on a white horse, with a drawn sword flashing away, cutting at the forces of evil." ++++ ++++ btw Ram Guha wrote that Sachin is the avatar of the Don. +++ Sachin is to Bradman as Krishna was to Vishnu, as close to the real thing as exists in this imperfect world. But those who will never see the Lord can do worse than follow his avatar. http://sachintendulkar.hypermart.net/newsarticles/compare.htm +++ CiL Sachin is Kalki. |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:52:57 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
> > Why "borderline"? > > > > Because he seldom hit sixes. The ball always *just* > crossed the line on the boundary, rather than sailing over > it. Hamish probably associates him with the ball crossing > the borderline. Not true. Tav is so famous that Ry Cooder wrote a song about him and other players who have eschewed the temptation of the big, rash shot and the aerial route: "There's a land so i've been told Every street is paved with gold And it's just across the borderline. And when it's time to take your turn Here's a lesson you must learn You could lose more than you ever hoped to find. And you reach the broken promised land Every dream slips through your hand And you know it's too late to change your mind. 'Cause you paid the price to come this far Just to wind up where you are And you're still just across the borderline." |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:53:10 |
| Ferine Boncer |
| Re: The original TAV |
Aditya Basrur <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com > wrote: > Ferine Boncer wrote: > <snip> > >> Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious company. > > > > Er, not by all accounts... > > > > In fact, it's only micky-mouse publications (such as A.C.Katha) that > > have propogated this, IMO... > > > > In fact, if you include Buddha, there's no place for SRT :) > > My apologies. I am an Amar Chitra Katha kid; I do rely on it for much of my > knowledge. (Happens when you grow up abroad, I guess.) I've read several > versions of the Mahabharat when much younger, though much of it escapes me. > Which one would you say is the 9th avatar, then? CIL has already explained far better than I can... All I can add is that Buddha, being an agnostic or at least having preched agnotism, wouldn't be too pleased being called NAV :) Let's respect the great *man* ... Cheers |
| 04 Nov 2003 14:58:06 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
> > Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying > > attention in your comparative religion classes. > > Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious > company. Beeeep! You get the bucket of green slime. Buddha was not the avatar previous to Tendulkar. Buddha re-manifested himself as David Boon who, as we know, consumed only one tinny a day. |
| 04 Nov 2003 16:48:37 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
> "As Botham brought the crowd to its feet, Tavare did his > utmost to make them sit down again. Here was dullness > personified, a walking, twitching anaesthetic. With his > long face and little moustache, Tavare was > cricketer-as-bank clerk, a batsman apparently devoid of > all personality. At the other end was a man larger than > life; at Tavare's end, a man so much smaller than life > that electron microscopes might reasonably have been > called into action. I knew instinctively that he was just > as singular as Botham, and in many ways more interesting. To further the amusement, let me quote some snippets from Brearley's book Phoenix From The Ashes. These from Brearley's recounting of the run up to the 5th Test of some series that never actually happened. Like a Tavare innings they take a while, but there's a particular joy to be found if you persist. "There was, I thought, only one way of getting Underwood into the twelve, and that was pick Knott in place of Taylor. These ideas were forming in my mind while I was in Wales. I thought that I should more about the form of the two Kent players, and also Chris Tavare. so I phoned their captain... He told me all three were playing well... Asif said that he [Knott] continued to 'keep superbly. Tavare, too, Asif reckoned would serve us well... "I was convinced that we needed a specialist No. 3... Tavare himself had shaped competently there in two tests against the West Indies but ... had been sacrificed on the altar of all-out attack against their fast bowling. He had, moreover, gradually improved in the last year. It was time to give him a chance... (here comes the good bit) "Larkins had been the reserve opening batsman for the last test; and Tavare had covered for Gower, Gooch or Gatting (if any of them had withdrawn, it was he who would have batted at 3)." |
| 05 Nov 2003 01:04:49 |
| R. Bharat Rao |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Aditya Basrur" <sandaas_rocks@yahoo.com > wrote in message news:bo8bno$rd4$1@lust.ihug.co.nz... > Yes. The previous Avatar was Buddha, so he has illustrious company. > > This is, by the way, a nickname given to him by certain fanatics on the > newsgroup. I don't think too many Hindus worship him, and as far as I know, > the only temples to him in India are called Wankhede and Chepauk. TAV because the Tenth Avatar is (will be) Kalki, the destroyer, who will destroy the entire universe for the cycle to begin again... A reference to Tendulkar's destruction of bowlers in the late 90s... Bharat |
| 04 Nov 2003 23:06:21 |
| Shatadal |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au > wrote in message news:fv9fqvg9ot75nlsknslburki1s7bni2mku@4ax.com... > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" > <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: > > >I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? > > > > Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu Tenth Avatar of Vishnu. The Tenth Avatar of Vishnu is supposed to be Kalki who will come in the future and free the earth from all evils. Shatadal. > > Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s > -- > "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." > Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 > > Mad Hamish > Hamish Laws > h_laws@aardvark.net.au |
| 05 Nov 2003 05:12:57 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
> Tenth Avatar of Vishnu. The Tenth Avatar of Vishnu is > supposed to be Kalki who will come in the future and free > the earth from all evils. Sounds like Clive Lloyd is it. |
| 05 Nov 2003 10:51:12 |
| Cricketislife! |
| Re: The original TAV |
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:12:57 GMT, "Bob Dubery" <megapode@hotmail.com > wrote: >> Tenth Avatar of Vishnu. The Tenth Avatar of Vishnu is >> supposed to be Kalki who will come in the future and free >> the earth from all evils. > >Sounds like Clive Lloyd is it. Dont u dare rubbish our religion. Uff! These southafricans think they can do anything n then weasel away. |
| 05 Nov 2003 18:27:25 |
| Andrew Dunford |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk > wrote in message news:3FA7AA03.55962AB7@jackalope.demon.co.uk... > Mad Hamish wrote: > > > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" > > <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: > > > > >I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? > > > > > > > Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu > > Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your > comparative religion classes. > > > Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s > > Why "borderline"? Perhaps he was also qualified to represent France. Andrew |
| 05 Nov 2003 18:35:11 |
| Aditya Basrur |
| Re: The original TAV |
Andrew Dunford wrote: > "Mike Holmans" <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > news:3FA7AA03.55962AB7@jackalope.demon.co.uk... >> Mad Hamish wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" >>> <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: >>> >>>> I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? >>>> >>> >>> Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu >> >> Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your >> comparative religion classes. >> >>> Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s >> >> Why "borderline"? > > Perhaps he was also qualified to represent France. > > Andrew Or Wales. If Wales is, indeed a country, and remains attached to the rest of England. -- Aditya |
| 05 Nov 2003 23:11:50 |
| Mad Hamish |
| Re: The original TAV |
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC), Mike Holmans <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk > wrote: >Mad Hamish wrote: >> >> On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:04:07 +0100, "Robbert ter Hart" >> <rterhart@spj.nl> wrote: >> >> >I am so sorry to have to ask this, but who's TAV, and why? >> > >> >> Tendulkar, it's something like third (?) avatar of Vishnu > >Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your >comparative religion classes. Comparative religion wasn't exactly an emphasised course in St Johns or Cardign College, which are the schools I attended where I did any religious courses Mind you I thought third sounded wrong but 10 is clearly excessive. > >> Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s > >Why "borderline"? > average 32, only 2 100s. -- "Hope is replaced by fear and dreams by survival, most of us get by." Stuart Adamson 1958-2001 Mad Hamish Hamish Laws h_laws@aardvark.net.au |
| 05 Nov 2003 17:51:19 |
| dp |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Mad Hamish" <h_laws@aardvark.net.au > wrote in message news:13qhqvsnanvqaq6hbqmo03ategobhbbpse@4ax.com... > >Tenth Avatar, please. You clearly weren't paying attention in your > >comparative religion classes. > > Comparative religion wasn't exactly an emphasised course in St Johns > or Cardign College, which are the schools I attended where I did any > religious courses > > Mind you I thought third sounded wrong but 10 is clearly excessive. Excessive? Considering that those 10 avataars are supposed to have been spread across millions of years and each avataar probably lasted no more than 60-70 years, I would say 10 is way too less. After all, taking avataars is his only job. He does nothing rest of the time, apart from lying on his snake-bed and romancing with Lakshmi, that is. dp [More frequent avataars please, Vishnu-ji!] |
| 05 Nov 2003 12:36:48 |
| Mike Holmans |
| Re: The original TAV |
Mad Hamish wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:30:54 +0000 (UTC), Mike Holmans > <mike@jackalope.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >Mad Hamish wrote: > >> Chris Tavare was a borderline test player for England in the 80s > > > >Why "borderline"? > > > average 32, only 2 100s. I'm vaguely surprised his stats are that good, actually. I suppose "borderline" is as good a term as any, but I wasn't entirely keen on its normal connotations. I rather take "borderline" to mean someone who might or might not be picked depending on the balance of the side, whether everyone else is fit, whether there is anything specific about the conditions or the opposition which makes him a horse (or not) for this particular course, that sort of thing. I wouldn't have put Tavare in that category: he was picked consistently for a period to do a certain job, which he did with relentless tedium, and his Test career ended when England decided that his job was one which they no longer wanted done. Cheers, Mike |
| 05 Nov 2003 13:25:10 |
| Bob Dubery |
| Re: The original TAV |
> Dont u dare rubbish our religion. Uff! These southafricans > think they can do anything n then weasel away. I resent that! We DO NOT weasel away. We simply stick our heads in the sand. |
| 07 Nov 2003 17:39:16 |
| Amol Cricketwallah |
| Re: The original TAV |
"Bob Dubery" <megapode@hotmail.com > wrote in message news:<3fa7bd48.3bb4.16838@opus.randori.com>... > > > Why "borderline"? > > > > > > > Because he seldom hit sixes. The ball always *just* > > crossed the line on the boundary, rather than sailing over > > it. Hamish probably associates him with the ball crossing > > the borderline. > > Not true. Tav is so famous that Ry Cooder wrote a song about > him and other players who have eschewed the temptation of > the big, rash shot and the aerial route: > And I thought he merely inspired poems! You know, that old one that goes: "Why should I give a hoot, mum, because some 'ooligans boos? An Englishman's crease is his castle, I shall stay 'ere as long as I choose" Excellent poem it was, the above is ony one of about 4 or 5 verses. Had a copy of the whole thing laying around, but canna seem to find it nomore. Help, DP, if youve still got a copy? Sadiq [ who cant even remember the poet's name ] Yusuf |
| 08 Nov 2003 07:17:45 |
| Cricketislife! |
| Re: The original TAV |
On 7 Nov 2003 17:39:16 -0800, cricketwallah@hotmail.com (Amol Cricketwallah) wrote: >And I thought he merely inspired poems! You know, that old one >that goes: > >"Why should I give a hoot, mum, >because some 'ooligans boos? >An Englishman's crease is his castle, >I shall stay 'ere as long as I choose" > >Excellent poem it was, the above is ony one of about 4 or 5 verses. >Had a copy of the whole thing laying around, but canna seem to >find it nomore. Help, DP, if youve still got a copy? > >Sadiq [ who cant even remember the poet's name ] Yusuf Hubert Phillips |
| 08 Nov 2003 18:24:27 |
| dp |
| Re: The original TAV |
cricketwallah@hotmail.com (Amol Cricketwallah) wrote in message news:<a374a779.0311071739.fcdbe80@posting.google.com >... Had a copy of the whole thing laying around, but canna seem to > find it nomore. Help, DP, if youve still got a copy? Me can't find it either. dp |