Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

06 May 2008 01:43:24

Suresh K S

I read the article on Warne's inspired captaincy of the R.Royals
(thanks Cricinfo).

A question: he must surely have been a contender for the Aussie
captaincy? Was it before/after Waugh? Warne generally struck me as a
shrewd cricketer and superb cricketing brain. Somehow I never get
that feeling with Ponting (though he is a fine batsman and is perhaps
very popular).

Did the unwise discussion with bookies (weather prediction or some
such thing) cost him the captaincy? Or was it the bias against bowler
captains as usual? Or do I overrate the man's Cricketing mind?

Suresh K S

06 May 2008 09:31:15

Mango

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

"Suresh K S" <sureshkarathinnai@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:e365bbd9-c714-4f0d-80d2-955315744fa7@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>I read the article on Warne's inspired captaincy of the R.Royals
> (thanks Cricinfo).
>
> A question: he must surely have been a contender for the Aussie
> captaincy? Was it before/after Waugh? Warne generally struck me as a
> shrewd cricketer and superb cricketing brain. Somehow I never get
> that feeling with Ponting (though he is a fine batsman and is perhaps
> very popular).
>
> Did the unwise discussion with bookies (weather prediction or some
> such thing) cost him the captaincy? Or was it the bias against bowler
> captains as usual? Or do I overrate the man's Cricketing mind?
>

Warne was a contender before the appointment of Waugh and also before the
appointment of Ponting. He had a way of attracting controversy off the
field which turned those making the decision against him. IMO I would have
selected Waugh ahead of him but would have given him the test captancy after
Waugh if the off field stuff wasn't considered. I suppose he also had the
diuretic incident work against him when Ponting was appointed test captain.

> Suresh K S

06 May 2008 02:44:23

Tweedle Dee

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

On May 6, 2:31=A0pm, "Mango" <Fakem...@wherever.com > wrote:
> "Suresh K S" <sureshkarathin...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e365bbd9-c=
714-4f0d-80d2-955315744fa7@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I read the article on Warne's inspired captaincy of the R.Royals
> > (thanks Cricinfo).
>
> > A question: he must surely have been a contender for the Aussie
> > captaincy? Was it before/after Waugh? Warne generally struck me as a
> > shrewd cricketer and superb cricketing brain. Somehow I never get
> > that =A0feeling with Ponting (though he is a fine batsman and is perhaps=

> > very popular).
>
> > Did the unwise discussion with bookies (weather prediction or some
> > such thing) cost him the captaincy? Or was it the bias against bowler
> > captains as usual? Or do I overrate the man's Cricketing mind?
>
> Warne was a contender before the appointment of Waugh and also before the
> appointment of Ponting. =A0He had a way of attracting controversy off the
> field which turned those making the decision against him. =A0IMO I would h=
ave
> selected Waugh ahead of him but would have given him the test captancy aft=
er
> Waugh if the off field stuff wasn't considered. =A0I suppose he also had t=
he
> diuretic incident work against him when Ponting was appointed test captain=
.

In any case, it's not as if the Aussies have done horribly under
either Waugh or Ponting, in both tests and odis. So there's not much
to lament about.

-Cheers,

TD

06 May 2008 09:43:48

Shikari Shambhu

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

On May 6, 5:44=A0am, Tweedle Dee <k.va...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:

> In any case, it's not as if the Aussies have done horribly under
> either Waugh or Ponting, in both tests and odis. So there's not much
> to lament about.
>
> -Cheers,
>
> TD-

That depends on where you live in Australia.

06 May 2008 10:40:16

Suresh K S

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

On May 6, 2:44 am, Tweedle Dee <k.va...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:

> In any case, it's not as if the Aussies have done horribly under
> either Waugh or Ponting, in both tests and odis.

True. The Aussies do have a shining record. But keep in mind that they
are an awesome combination of talent, professional training and an
aggressive sporting culture. Ponting's contribution - as captain - at
the helm of this team might be somewhat modest. With McGrath, Lee, and
Warne bowling for him and Gilly, Hayden, Symonds, Clarke and his own
batting to fall back on, the captain might not have been pressed very
hard.

I don't get the feeling of seeing a fine captain at work with Ponting
(for instance Border, Waugh and Vaughn seemed to be such fine
captains). I sort of see Ponting as I used to see Clive Lloyd. A
captain with a stellar record leading one of the great sides of his
times. Both Lloyd and Ponting were/are superb batsmen that commanded a
place in the side but were fortunate in leading in great teams.

Lloyd's team never really faced an equal for 4/5 years and when they
did face a pivotal situation in the World Cup (# 3) they lost to
India by 40 some runs in a panic-induced collapse chasing the slimmest
of totals. I sort of think that a Border or Waugh in that situation
would have calmly batted through the 180 some runs to get for a few
wickets loss and taken home trophy number 3.

Next stop Clarke or Symonds for the Aussie train?

Suresh K S

06 May 2008 22:13:16

Mike Holmans

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

On Tue, 6 May 2008 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT), Suresh K S
<sureshkarathinnai@gmail.com > wrote:

>I don't get the feeling of seeing a fine captain at work with Ponting
>(for instance Border, Waugh and Vaughn seemed to be such fine
>captains). I sort of see Ponting as I used to see Clive Lloyd. A
>captain with a stellar record leading one of the great sides of his
>times. Both Lloyd and Ponting were/are superb batsmen that commanded a
>place in the side but were fortunate in leading in great teams.

This underestimates Lloyd's value as a captain of a West Indies side
in the mid-1970s and onwards.

You're right that he was no tactical genius, but the fact that he was
leading a *team* was the achievement.

When Lloyd took over, a West Indies cricket side consisted of eleven
individuals playing for themselves. In the wider world, the dream of a
Caribbean Federation to unite the newly-independent islands was fading
away as the local politicians squabbled.

With that background, fashioning a cricket team of the all for one and
one for all persuasion was a Herculean task, but Lloyd managed it. He
became their father and their rock, the man everyone in the dressing
room looked up to and looked to for leadership.

Lloyd still believed in the Federation ideal, and it is in a sense his
achievement that the one aspect of it which survived the political
debacle was the West Indies cricket team. In Lloyd's team, Bajans,
Trinis, Jamaicans, Guyanese and those from the smaller islands hung
out together rather than in separate gangs. They were the West Indies,
nothing else.

Lloyd's captaincy was all about what happened off the field. By
getting that right, what happened on the field became rather a
formality.

Cheers,

Mike

07 May 2008 09:23:22

will_s

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

06 May 2008 16:34:02

R. Spanditt

Re: Was Warne ever a contender for Aussie Captaincy?

On May 6, 7:31=A0pm, "Mango" <Fakem...@wherever.com > wrote:
> "Suresh K S" <sureshkarathin...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:e365bbd9-c=
714-4f0d-80d2-955315744fa7@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> >I read the article on Warne's inspired captaincy of the R.Royals
> > (thanks Cricinfo).
>
> > A question: he must surely have been a contender for the Aussie
> > captaincy? Was it before/after Waugh? Warne generally struck me as a
> > shrewd cricketer and superb cricketing brain. Somehow I never get
> > that =A0feeling with Ponting (though he is a fine batsman and is perhaps=

> > very popular).
>
> > Did the unwise discussion with bookies (weather prediction or some
> > such thing) cost him the captaincy? Or was it the bias against bowler
> > captains as usual? Or do I overrate the man's Cricketing mind?
>
> Warne was a contender before the appointment of Waugh and also before the
> appointment of Ponting. =A0He had a way of attracting controversy off the
> field which turned those making the decision against him. =A0IMO I would h=
ave
> selected Waugh ahead of him but would have given him the test captancy aft=
er
> Waugh if the off field stuff wasn't considered. =A0I suppose he also had t=
he
> diuretic incident work against him when Ponting was appointed test captain=
.
>

Waugh was always going to be captain after Taylor, but from memory the
main incident that had occurred just before Ponting's appointment was
another text messaging fiasco in England, where he was harrassing some
bird. Though he's obviously a better cricket mind than Ponting, the
off-field stature of the side would have been demeaned by having him
annointed the leader, though I doubt it has made any such difference
to the way the public perceives the moral values of the players.