Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

04 May 2008 10:26:52

Tweedle Dee

Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
they have Smith, Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.

Cheers,

TD

05 May 2008 07:58:21

Mohan

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

Tweedle Dee wrote:
> Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> they have Smith, Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
> Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.

Largely because they didn't have any name that stood out - names like
Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds, Gibbs, Tendulkar, Jayasuriya, et al. Among
the Indians, the only recognised players they had were Kaif and Munaf (Y
Pathan has only played a handful of matches for India), hardly the type
to inspire awe and even among the foreigners, while Smith, Watson,
Tanvir are all decent players, they aren't quite stars like
aforementioned players. And frankly, I didn't expect Warne to be this
good a year after retirement.

Anyway, terrific showing by them so far. Incidentally, in the next three
matches coming up, teams that are placed in the top half of the table
will be taking on the teams that are in the lower half. As we approach
halfway mark of the league stage, it will be great for the tournament if
the lower half teams win all three matches.

Mohan

05 May 2008 21:12:44

Andrew Dunford

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

"Tweedle Dee" <k.vanka@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1b02e63b-8785-4174-be71-9c08705d7b4d@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> they have Smith, Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
> Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.

The most obvious reason is that Rajasthan spent comparatively little money
in the first auction - which was the one that got all the publicity - but
made a number of shrewd purchases in the second auction: Watson, Tanvir,
Morne Morkel (who subsequently was not signed because he already had a
county contract) and Mascarenhas. Take Watson and Tanvir out and the team
looks rather weaker.

They still don't look particularly strong on paper now. Watson has no great
record at international level whilst nobody is going to get excited about
Kaif. The same is true of Munaf, whose performances at international level
in recent times have been lethargic. Tanvir was a relative unknown.

So, a definite lack of obvious star quality, which was amplified when more
than half of their overseas players were not available for the start of the
tournament, leaving them to rely on older pie-eaters like Warne and Lehmann.

Andrew

05 May 2008 05:32:05

Don

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 5, 7:28=A0am, Mohan <nob...@nowhere.com > wrote:
> Tweedle Dee wrote:
> > Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> > they have Smith, =A0Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> > Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> > seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
> > Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> > thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> > carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> > about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.
>
> Largely because they didn't have any name that stood out - names like
> Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds, Gibbs, Tendulkar, Jayasuriya, et al. Among
> the Indians, the only recognised players they had were Kaif and Munaf (Y
> Pathan has only played a handful of matches for India), hardly the type
> to inspire awe and even among the foreigners, while Smith, Watson,
> Tanvir are all decent players, they aren't quite stars like
> aforementioned players. And frankly, I didn't expect Warne to be this
> good a year after retirement.
>
> Anyway, terrific showing by them so far. Incidentally, in the next three
> matches coming up, teams that are placed in the top half of the table
> will be taking on the teams that are in the lower half. As we approach
> halfway mark of the league stage, it will be great for the tournament if
> the lower half teams win all three matches.
>
> Mohan

Maybe coz 20-20 is just slam bang cricket and any team can win on its
day.
It dosen't depend on superstar players. Star bowlers cannot work on
their
5-6 over spell and work out your weaknesses. And star batsmen cannot
work
their team out of a bad situatio. Its just who can adjust quickly to
hitting
bowlers around for a quick 50 or 60.

RR just have the momentum going for them now. And don't forget they
are
a team based in Jaipur which happens to be the home city of IPL owner
Lalit
Modi. Am i hinting at something? Just figure it out for yourself.

Don

05 May 2008 09:26:29

Tweedle Dee

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 5, 5:32=A0pm, Don <don200...@rediffmail.com > wrote:
> On May 5, 7:28=A0am, Mohan <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tweedle Dee wrote:
> > > Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> > > they have Smith, =A0Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> > > Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> > > seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think=

> > > Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> > > thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> > > carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> > > about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.
>
> > Largely because they didn't have any name that stood out - names like
> > Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds, Gibbs, Tendulkar, Jayasuriya, et al. Among
> > the Indians, the only recognised players they had were Kaif and Munaf (Y=

> > Pathan has only played a handful of matches for India), hardly the type
> > to inspire awe and even among the foreigners, while Smith, Watson,
> > Tanvir are all decent players, they aren't quite stars like
> > aforementioned players. And frankly, I didn't expect Warne to be this
> > good a year after retirement.
>
> > Anyway, terrific showing by them so far. Incidentally, in the next three=

> > matches coming up, teams that are placed in the top half of the table
> > will be taking on the teams that are in the lower half. As we approach
> > halfway mark of the league stage, it will be great for the tournament if=

> > the lower half teams win all three matches.
>
> > Mohan
>
> Maybe coz 20-20 is just slam bang cricket and any team can win on its
> day.
> It dosen't depend on superstar players. Star bowlers cannot work on
> their
> 5-6 over spell and work out your weaknesses. And star batsmen cannot
> work
> their team out of a bad situatio. Its just who can adjust quickly to
> hitting
> bowlers around for a quick 50 or 60.
>
> RR just have the momentum going for them now. And don't forget they
> are
> a team based in Jaipur which happens to be the home city of IPL owner
> Lalit
> Modi. Am i hinting at something? Just figure it out for yourself.

I thought Modi had a stake in the Kolkata Franchise.

-TD

05 May 2008 11:42:17

Don

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 5, 9:26=A0pm, Tweedle Dee <k.va...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> On May 5, 5:32=A0pm, Don <don200...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 7:28=A0am, Mohan <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > > Tweedle Dee wrote:
> > > > Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> > > > they have Smith, =A0Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> > > > Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> > > > seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't thi=
nk
> > > > Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> > > > thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> > > > carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveawa=
y
> > > > about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.
>
> > > Largely because they didn't have any name that stood out - names like
> > > Ponting, Gilchrist, Symonds, Gibbs, Tendulkar, Jayasuriya, et al. Amon=
g
> > > the Indians, the only recognised players they had were Kaif and Munaf =
(Y
> > > Pathan has only played a handful of matches for India), hardly the typ=
e
> > > to inspire awe and even among the foreigners, while Smith, Watson,
> > > Tanvir are all decent players, they aren't quite stars like
> > > aforementioned players. And frankly, I didn't expect Warne to be this
> > > good a year after retirement.
>
> > > Anyway, terrific showing by them so far. Incidentally, in the next thr=
ee
> > > matches coming up, teams that are placed in the top half of the table
> > > will be taking on the teams that are in the lower half. As we approach=

> > > halfway mark of the league stage, it will be great for the tournament =
if
> > > the lower half teams win all three matches.
>
> > > Mohan
>
> > Maybe coz 20-20 is just slam bang cricket and any team can win on its
> > day.
> > It dosen't depend on superstar players. Star bowlers cannot work on
> > their
> > 5-6 over spell and work out your weaknesses. And star batsmen cannot
> > work
> > their team out of a bad situatio. Its just who can adjust quickly to
> > hitting
> > bowlers around for a quick 50 or 60.
>
> > RR just have the momentum going for them now. And don't forget they
> > are
> > a team based in Jaipur which happens to be the home city of IPL owner
> > Lalit
> > Modi. Am i hinting at something? Just figure it out for yourself.
>
> I thought Modi had a stake in the Kolkata Franchise.
>
> -TD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

have u seen him present for all RR matches and always patting the
players when they come ioff the field after a win.

Don

06 May 2008 12:45:27

Andrew Dunford

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

"Mohan" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message news:fvlrc8$thp$1@aioe.org...

<snip >

> Incidentally, in the next three matches coming up, teams that are placed
> in the top half of the table will be taking on the teams that are in the
> lower half. As we approach halfway mark of the league stage, it will be
> great for the tournament if the lower half teams win all three matches.

That's one perspective. Another is that a points table featuring a cluster
of teams all with approximately 50% records indicates either a lack of
genuine quality and/or the format produces lottery results.

Andrew

06 May 2008 06:26:16

Mohan

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

Andrew Dunford wrote:
> "Mohan" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:fvlrc8$thp$1@aioe.org...
>
> <snip>
>
>> Incidentally, in the next three matches coming up, teams that are placed
>> in the top half of the table will be taking on the teams that are in the
>> lower half. As we approach halfway mark of the league stage, it will be
>> great for the tournament if the lower half teams win all three matches.
>
> That's one perspective. Another is that a points table featuring a cluster
> of teams all with approximately 50% records indicates either a lack of
> genuine quality and/or the format produces lottery results.

Or that the teams are fairly well-balanced. Not highly unlikely,
especially given the way teams were formed.

Mohan

06 May 2008 13:16:02

Andrew Dunford

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

"Mohan" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message news:fvoabi$u4d$1@aioe.org...
> Andrew Dunford wrote:
>> "Mohan" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:fvlrc8$thp$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Incidentally, in the next three matches coming up, teams that are placed
>>> in the top half of the table will be taking on the teams that are in the
>>> lower half. As we approach halfway mark of the league stage, it will be
>>> great for the tournament if the lower half teams win all three matches.
>>
>> That's one perspective. Another is that a points table featuring a
>> cluster of teams all with approximately 50% records indicates either a
>> lack of genuine quality and/or the format produces lottery results.
>
> Or that the teams are fairly well-balanced. Not highly unlikely,
> especially given the way teams were formed.

On the contrary, I think it is highly unlikely. It is very unusual for
sporting tables to cluster in such a manner, even when measures designed to
even out the strength of the teams are employed.

I'm not suggesting that the results of the IPL are a lottery; rather that it
is unlikely that e.g. Bangalore will suddenly start beating the
higher-ranked teams regularly. The exceptions to this rule are teams whose
player roster has changed dramatically e.g. Chennai, where it can hardly be
said that Hayden and M Hussey have been adequately replaced by Fleming (who
was always useless at T20) and Sivaramakrishnan.

Andrew

06 May 2008 07:06:09

Mohan

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

Andrew Dunford wrote:
> On the contrary, I think it is highly unlikely. It is very unusual for
> sporting tables to cluster in such a manner, even when measures designed to
> even out the strength of the teams are employed.
>
> I'm not suggesting that the results of the IPL are a lottery; rather that it
> is unlikely that e.g. Bangalore will suddenly start beating the
> higher-ranked teams regularly. The exceptions to this rule are teams whose
> player roster has changed dramatically e.g. Chennai, where it can hardly be
> said that Hayden and M Hussey have been adequately replaced by Fleming (who
> was always useless at T20) and Sivaramakrishnan.

Or in Bangalore's case, captain getting the team selection right could
make the difference. We finally played White and Misbah yesterday. Yes,
they failed, but all it needs is for them to click once and they could
provide the much needed fire power to our batting. Hyderabad - no one
knows why they are struggling and it wouldn't surprise me if they win a
few matches. Tendulkar's return could add the missing zing to Bombay.
And as has been discussed, we don't really know why Rajasthan is doing
as well as they are either.

I don't think a few "upsets" from here on necessarily mean that the
results are a lottery.

Mohan

05 May 2008 19:28:49

Uday Rajan

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 5, 9:36 pm, Mohan <nob...@nowhere.com > wrote:
>
> I don't think a few "upsets" from here on necessarily mean that the
> results are a lottery.

I don't know what you veteran 20-20 followers think, but to me the
format seems to make for more of a lottery than even an odo. It may be
an incorrect perception (I haven't watched a single T20 match yet),
but it nevertheless is a perception that a couple of lucky strikes
with ball or bat may swing a match.

The effect is no doubt compounded by the relatively short season.
Perhaps the following will be a completely irrelevant comparison, but
never mind, I seem to have a few minutes on my hands. Consider major
league baseball in the US. If a team wins 100 games out of 162, that's
considered very good. That's a winning percentage of approximately
63%. A team that wins only 70 games is considered very poor; that's a
winning percentage of 44%. If the baseball season were 14 games long
instead of 162, potentially there would be complete chaos in the team
rankings. That's a somewhat slippery argument, because of course teams
would plan completely differently for a 14 game season. Nevertheless,
the conventional wisdom in baseball is that in the playoffs, with
short series, anything can happen, and "strong" teams are often beaten
by "weak" teams.

Put the two factors together, and it's not a big surprise if a lot of
teams in the IPL find themselves clustered in the middle of the pack,
with the odd outlier at one end or the other.

06 May 2008 09:16:17

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 4, 10:26 am, Tweedle Dee <k.va...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> they have Smith, Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
> Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.

Read my posts BEFORE the IPL tournament began. I for one certainly did
not underrate them and was actually praising the team owners for their
selections. So, although I was in the minority (and in this case a
possible sole voice) at least there was one person who could see the
potential in the Rajasthan Royals.

However, I still wish they remove Kaif from the playing eleven and
bring in Niraj Patel. At least give that youngster a chance.
>
> Cheers,
>
> TD

06 May 2008 10:18:02

Macjoubert

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 4, 12:26=A0pm, Tweedle Dee <k.va...@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:
> Their bowling is far from weak, with Warne, Munaf and Tanvir , and
> they have Smith, =A0Watson, Kaif and Pathan in their batting ranks.
> Sure, Warne may be a great captain, and a couple of the youngsters
> seem to have been inspired by him to play very well, but I don't think
> Rajasthan was as much of an underdog/weak team as people had been
> thinking before the competition began. The fact that they were not
> carrying white elephant icons itself should have been a dead giveaway
> about their relative strength vis-a-vis the other teams.
>
> Cheers,
>
> TD

They were underrated simply because they didnt bid on 'high value'
players,so the assumption they would fare poorly.

06 May 2008 11:40:09

kipps

Re: Why were the Rajasthan Royals Underrated?

On May 5, 10:28 pm, Uday Rajan <udayra...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On May 5, 9:36 pm, Mohan <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I don't think a few "upsets" from here on necessarily mean that the
> > results are a lottery.
>
> I don't know what you veteran 20-20 followers think, but to me the
> format seems to make for more of a lottery than even an odo. It may be
> an incorrect perception (I haven't watched a single T20 match yet),
> but it nevertheless is a perception that a couple of lucky strikes
> with ball or bat may swing a match.
>
> The effect is no doubt compounded by the relatively short season.
> Perhaps the following will be a completely irrelevant comparison, but
> never mind, I seem to have a few minutes on my hands. Consider major
> league baseball in the US. If a team wins 100 games out of 162, that's
> considered very good. That's a winning percentage of approximately
> 63%. A team that wins only 70 games is considered very poor; that's a
> winning percentage of 44%. If the baseball season were 14 games long
> instead of 162, potentially there would be complete chaos in the team
> rankings. That's a somewhat slippery argument, because of course teams
> would plan completely differently for a 14 game season. Nevertheless,
> the conventional wisdom in baseball is that in the playoffs, with
> short series, anything can happen, and "strong" teams are often beaten
> by "weak" teams.
>
> Put the two factors together, and it's not a big surprise if a lot of
> teams in the IPL find themselves clustered in the middle of the pack,
> with the odd outlier at one end or the other.

In baseball playoffs pitching always wins [good pitching that is]