09 Jul 2007 08:53:45
Driving range startup costs

Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
area?

What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
buckets per person?



09 Jul 2007 10:54:38
Aodhan
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 9 2007 9:53 AM, mobydick86 wrote:

> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?

Not to be rude about it, but if you don't know enough to be able to find
these answers on your own, then you probably don't know enough to run one
successfully.

However.

Go to an existing driving range (Fiddlesticks, whatever). Sit there for a
day. Count the people, count the buckets, etc. Yes, boring, but nobody is
going to come out and tell you the data.

Then, look at where you want to build. Sit there for a few hours,
different days, different times. Count the traffic. Is there access to
your planned facility, or will you have to build? Are there any other
business draws? (Such as a kids facility. This is why places like
fiddlesticks work, they have fun stuff for the kiddies while dad or mom
whacks balls.) Any snags in access?

Now, for your planned locations, look at the average rent/purchase costs
for the land. Look at the average income in a 3-5 mile radius (90% of your
customers will come from that area.) Now look at a 5-10 mile radius, and
see what golf courses or other driving facilities are there. These are
your direct and indirect competitors.

Now, using all of the above data, figure out startup costs. Don't forget
ball collecting machines, upkeep, payroll, utilities, etc. Figure out your
breakeven point. Project 6 months worth of expenses and revenues.

Now, write a business plan that incorporates all of the above. You can get
some excellent examples off the web, look at some of the business plan
competitions to see what good ones look like. Take that business plan
around ot a bunch of banks, and see what they think.

Your best bet might be to look into a franchise opportunity, unless you
are independently wealthy.

John

______________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com




09 Jul 2007 16:08:30
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

Successful driving ranges are often a family business. Since there is no
inventory to account for, employees may steal you blind pocketing cash or
giving freebees to their friends.

<mobydick86@charter.net > wrote in message
news:1183996425.500381.295380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?
>




09 Jul 2007 15:04:56
Pickmaster
Re: Driving range startup costs

The tricky thing about the size of the piece of land you will need (at least
10 acres) if the traffic is there for business, it will be hard to get a
long term lease because of the value of it for other things potentially. You
could probably start one on the cheap for $ 50k-- also look into buying an
existing one, of course that might require relocating.

<mobydick86@charter.net > wrote in message
news:1183996425.500381.295380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?
>




09 Jul 2007 21:17:15
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 9, 5:04 pm, "Pickmaster" <hots...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> The tricky thing about the size of the piece of land you will need (at least
> 10 acres) if the traffic is there for business, it will be hard to get a
> long term lease because of the value of it for other things potentially. You
> could probably start one on the cheap for $ 50k-- also look into buying an
> existing one, of course that might require relocating.
>
> <mobydic...@charter.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1183996425.500381.295380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> > range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> > area?
>
> > What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> > buckets per person?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -




09 Jul 2007 22:20:14
Re: Driving range startup costs

Opps.

I meant to ask "Professional level advice in a newsgroup? What kind of
an MBA are you?"

The other thing the OP might do is to just pretend he has such a
driving range and start writing pretend checks to cover the costs.
Then go to a range some distance away from him, buy the owner a beer
or two and ask him what was missed.

Keep track of the balance, that's a good way to know how much real
money you HAVE to have to start one up.

There are always driving ranges for sale. Look at them, call, ask to
see the financials. How would the new range compare?

Don't guess - ask, ask more than one person, ask people who know where
the alligators are in the driving range swamp. Ask the equipment
vendors too.

Then keep revising that check book -- it's a cash flow document. When
you have one you can believe in, you have the start of a business
plan.

Oh, and another thing? Make sure (assuming you're in the northern
hemisphere) that people are driving off to the north, so the sun is
never in their eyes.

When you're done with your homework, let those who have posted
suggestions know what you found out.




09 Jul 2007 17:33:02
Copper Emeritus
Re: Driving range startup costs

No, no, no! If you want to become an American Entrepenuer, start a topless
shoeshine parlor. Low overhead, and you can re-stock your shiners every year
with more nubile shiners!

--
Copper Emeritus

Golf is not a matter of Life or Death,
it is MUCH more important than that!
<mobydick86@charter.net > wrote in message
news:1183996425.500381.295380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?
>




09 Jul 2007 19:22:03
Matt
Re: Driving range startup costs


"sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote in message
news:ceydnbAop_kiCA_bnZ2dnUVZ_ryknZ2d@comcast.com...
> Successful driving ranges are often a family business. Since there is no
> inventory to account for, employees may steal you blind pocketing cash or
> giving freebees to their friends.
>

yea because families never steal. Sons and Daughters would NEVER let their
friends hit balls for free. Please, I worked at a family owned driving
range, if anything its the complete opposite of what you are trying to say.




09 Jul 2007 18:20:59
Brian Foster
Re: Driving range startup costs


<mobydick86@charter.net > wrote in message
news:1183996425.500381.295380@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?


Go for it man. If that's what you want to do then don't let any of these
samrt asses in RSG tell you not to.
FWIW, the guys who I know that got started in this were all amazed at how
little they knew about turf, and how much they needed to learn about turf
so quickly once they got started.

Good luck, the world needs more good ranges.



09 Jul 2007 17:24:58
Birdie Bill
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 9, 10:53 am, mobydic...@charter.net wrote:
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?

Don't forget those big nets, and you may want to talk to your
insurance
agent about liability.



09 Jul 2007 22:21:37
BAR
Re: Driving range startup costs

mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> area?
>
> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> buckets per person?
>

From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and
you will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting
into the bucket.

When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?

A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting
to pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.


10 Jul 2007 08:14:30
Eric Gurney
Re: Driving range startup costs

what about an automated ball dispenser?
http://golfmachinery.com/news.htm

"BAR" <ScrewYou@Your.Place > wrote in message
news:POSdnQtkptaocA_bnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...
> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>> area?
>>
>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>> buckets per person?
>>
>
> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with owning
> a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and you will
> never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting into the
> bucket.
>
> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are watching
> the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>
> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it was
> a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting to pick
> up a golf course at a rock bottom price.




10 Jul 2007 08:31:48
BAR
Re: Driving range startup costs

Who puts the balls in the dispenser?

If you have more balls than fit in the dispenser's hopper then you have
the opportunity to loose revenue.

Eric Gurney wrote:
> what about an automated ball dispenser?
> http://golfmachinery.com/news.htm
>
> "BAR" <ScrewYou@Your.Place> wrote in message
> news:POSdnQtkptaocA_bnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>> area?
>>>
>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>> buckets per person?
>>>
>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with owning
>> a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and you will
>> never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting into the
>> bucket.
>>
>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are watching
>> the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>
>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it was
>> a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting to pick
>> up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>
>


10 Jul 2007 09:01:01
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

Murphy's Law - eventually and often they will jam. On site employees must
have the keys and access to clear jams. Imagine how pissed you would be if
you paid $5 for a bucket, the machine jams, and the guy says come back
tomorrow to get a refund from the owner.

"Eric Gurney" <egurney@yahoo.nospam.com > wrote in message
news:1396u174qgmra2@corp.supernews.com...
> what about an automated ball dispenser?
> http://golfmachinery.com/news.htm
>
> "BAR" <ScrewYou@Your.Place> wrote in message
> news:POSdnQtkptaocA_bnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>> area?
>>>
>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>> buckets per person?
>>>
>>
>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with owning
>> a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and you will
>> never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting into the
>> bucket.
>>
>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
>> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>
>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
>> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting to
>> pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>
>




10 Jul 2007 09:30:46
Eric Gurney
Re: Driving range startup costs

This can 'watch the till' while you are out picking up balls.
Not suggesting it's a perfect solution...

"sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote in message
news:mJWdnapFm4yGHg7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCsnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Murphy's Law - eventually and often they will jam. On site employees must
> have the keys and access to clear jams. Imagine how pissed you would be if
> you paid $5 for a bucket, the machine jams, and the guy says come back
> tomorrow to get a refund from the owner.
>
> "Eric Gurney" <egurney@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1396u174qgmra2@corp.supernews.com...
>> what about an automated ball dispenser?
>> http://golfmachinery.com/news.htm
>>
>> "BAR" <ScrewYou@Your.Place> wrote in message
>> news:POSdnQtkptaocA_bnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>>> area?
>>>>
>>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>>> buckets per person?
>>>>
>>>
>>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
>>> owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and
>>> you will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting
>>> into the bucket.
>>>
>>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
>>> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>>
>>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
>>> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting
>>> to pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>>
>>
>
>




10 Jul 2007 10:18:40
Joe
Re: Driving range startup costs

BAR wrote:
> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>> area?
>>
>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>> buckets per person?
>>
>
> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
> owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and
> you will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting
> into the bucket.
>
> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>
> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting
> to pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.

How is this different than the problem that any tavern owner faces?

Joe


10 Jul 2007 14:22:14
Tina
Re: Driving range startup costs

This "watch the money" problem has been solved in a number of
industries. McDonald's comes to mind, as does a number of inventory
contol schemes. The bigger problem is trying to understand the
industry well enough to decide if the investment offers a reasonable
chance of success.



On Jul 10, 10:18 am, Joe <J...@nospamwarwickDOTnet.org > wrote:
> BAR wrote:
> > mobydic...@charter.net wrote:
> >> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> >> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> >> area?
>
> >> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> >> buckets per person?
>
> > From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
> > owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and
> > you will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting
> > into the bucket.
>
> > When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
> > watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>
> > A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
> > industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
> > was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting
> > to pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>
> How is this different than the problem that any tavern owner faces?
>
> Joe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -




10 Jul 2007 14:32:25
Bobby Knight
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:18:40 -0400, Joe <Joe@nospamwarwickDOTnet.org >
wrote:

>BAR wrote:
>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>> area?
>>>
>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>> buckets per person?
>>>
>>
>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
>> owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and
>> you will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting
>> into the bucket.
>>
>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
>> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>
>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
>> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting
>> to pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>
>How is this different than the problem that any tavern owner faces?
>
>Joe

There are more drinkers than drivers :-)

--
___,
o
|
/
.
"Someone likes every shot"!
bk


10 Jul 2007 09:15:08
Larry Bud
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 9, 1:54 pm, "Aodhan" <a...@webnntp.invalid > wrote:
> On Jul 9 2007 9:53 AM, mobydick86 wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
> > range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
> > area?
>
> > What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
> > buckets per person?
>
> Not to be rude about it, but if you don't know enough to be able to find
> these answers on your own, then you probably don't know enough to run one
> successfully.

Huh? He is trying to find those answers on his own.



10 Jul 2007 09:20:43
Larry Bud
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 9, 4:08 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net > wrote:
> Successful driving ranges are often a family business. Since there is no
> inventory to account for, employees may steal you blind pocketing cash or
> giving freebees to their friends.

That's what security cameras are for.

The more upscale range I go to has no tokens. You pay, get a receipt
with a 4 digit # on it that expires that day. You punch the # into
the dispenser, balls come out according to the bucket size.

Or you buy a card for bulk purchases, and the computer tracks all
sales and usage. It would be tough to steal from the drawer in an
operation like this or give free balls when the drawer doesn't match
the receipts at the end of the day.





10 Jul 2007 12:22:59
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

A tavern sells the inventory. A driving range rents theirs. You start the
day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no way
to reconcile the inventory and the till.

"Joe" <Joe@nospamwarwickDOTnet.org > wrote in message
news:4693943b$0$15001$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> BAR wrote:
>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>> area?
>>>
>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>> buckets per person?
>>>
>>
>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
>> owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and you
>> will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting into
>> the bucket.
>>
>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
>> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>
>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
>> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting to
>> pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>
> How is this different than the problem that any tavern owner faces?
>
> Joe




10 Jul 2007 12:26:46
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

The "watch the money" problem is more easily solved in industries which
actually sells the inventory. A driving range only rents theirs.

"Tina" <tbaker27705@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1184077334.593036.168030@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

> This "watch the money" problem has been solved in a number of
> industries. McDonald's comes to mind, as does a number of inventory
> contol schemes. The bigger problem is trying to understand the
> industry well enough to decide if the investment offers a reasonable
> chance of success.
>




10 Jul 2007 13:48:25
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

What happens when the machine jams and can't dispense balls? Does an
employee open the machine and clear the jam or do you all go home and come
back another day?

"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1184084443.187331.127180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 4:08 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
>> Successful driving ranges are often a family business. Since there is no
>> inventory to account for, employees may steal you blind pocketing cash
>> or
>> giving freebees to their friends.
>
> That's what security cameras are for.
>
> The more upscale range I go to has no tokens. You pay, get a receipt
> with a 4 digit # on it that expires that day. You punch the # into
> the dispenser, balls come out according to the bucket size.
>
> Or you buy a card for bulk purchases, and the computer tracks all
> sales and usage. It would be tough to steal from the drawer in an
> operation like this or give free balls when the drawer doesn't match
> the receipts at the end of the day.
>
>
>




10 Jul 2007 14:11:08
Joe
Re: Driving range startup costs


>
> "Joe" <Joe@nospamwarwickDOTnet.org> wrote in message
> news:4693943b$0$15001$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> BAR wrote:
>>> mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
>>>> Does anyone have guesstimates of how much it costs to start a driving
>>>> range? What are typical lease costs? etc. What about the st louis
>>>> area?
>>>>
>>>> What about traffic? How many customers per day on average? how many
>>>> buckets per person?
>>>>
>>> From what I have been told and understand the biggest problem with
>>> owning a driving range is that your employees will steal from you and you
>>> will never no it. You have almost zero control of the balls getting into
>>> the bucket.
>>>
>>> When you are picking balls who is watching the till? When you are
>>> watching the till who is picking balls and giving some to their firends?
>>>
>>> A local range near me was bulldozed, for a 2,000,000 sq.ft. commericial
>>> industrial addition. It seems the land was the valuable asset. But, it
>>> was a great range, lighted at nigh and the owner was a PGA pro waiting to
>>> pick up a golf course at a rock bottom price.
>> How is this different than the problem that any tavern owner faces?
>>
>> Joe
>
> sfb wrote:
> A tavern sells the inventory. A driving range rents theirs. You start the
> day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no way
> to reconcile the inventory and the till.

So what?

A good tavern owner recognizes that you can NOT stop shrink, loss or
whatever you choose to call it. They can only manage the amount.

The same holds true for the driving range.

Hire the right people, motivate them, treat them right and prosecute a
thief. Understand the "comp or freebies" range needs in your business.
Net Net, take care of them, they will treat you right. Be a good manger.

Joe


10 Jul 2007 18:30:38
Larry Bud
Re: Driving range startup costs


>
> "Larry Bud" <larrybud2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1184084443.187331.127180@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 9, 4:08 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
> >> Successful driving ranges are often a family business. Since there is no
> >> inventory to account for, employees may steal you blind pocketing cash
> >> or
> >> giving freebees to their friends.
>
> > That's what security cameras are for.
>
> > The more upscale range I go to has no tokens. You pay, get a receipt
> > with a 4 digit # on it that expires that day. You punch the # into
> > the dispenser, balls come out according to the bucket size.
>
> > Or you buy a card for bulk purchases, and the computer tracks all
> > sales and usage. It would be tough to steal from the drawer in an
> > operation like this or give free balls when the drawer doesn't match
> > the receipts at the end of the day.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Jul 10, 1:48 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net > wrote:
> What happens when the machine jams and can't dispense balls? Does an
> employee open the machine and clear the jam or do you all go home and come
> back another day?

It's never happened to me, nor anyone I've ever seen. Top quality
equipment there. On top of that, this range always has 3 or 4 people
working at it (at least), including at least one of 5 pros that work
there. It's constantly busy.



10 Jul 2007 18:32:50
Larry Bud
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 10, 12:22 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net > wrote:
> A tavern sells the inventory. A driving range rents theirs. You start the
> day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no way
> to reconcile the inventory and the till.

You can apply that same situation to a number of mom and pop stores.
Small automotive shops, tire balancers, etc.



11 Jul 2007 00:11:48
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

Any store regardless of form, ownership, etc. that sells the inventory has
the ability to reconcile inventory and the till.

A driving range is a unique type of business renting inventory that never
leaves the premises.

"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1184117570.426226.168880@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 10, 12:22 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
>> A tavern sells the inventory. A driving range rents theirs. You start
>> the
>> day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no
>> way
>> to reconcile the inventory and the till.
>
> You can apply that same situation to a number of mom and pop stores.
> Small automotive shops, tire balancers, etc.
>




10 Jul 2007 21:21:49
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Jul 10, 8:32 pm, Larry Bud <larrybud2...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Jul 10, 12:22 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > A tavern sells the inventory. Adrivingrangerents theirs. You start the
> > day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no way
> > to reconcile the inventory and the till.
>
> You can apply that same situation to a number of mom and pop stores.
> Small automotive shops, tire balancers, etc.

WOW!! I am surprised at all of the replies! Thanks for all the
helpful advice.

While it seems that I could whip up a quick financial statement online
and do extensive primary market research, golf courses and driving
ranges are mostly private and are not required to file information
publicly and it would be a huge waste of my time to sit at driving
ranges, intersections, etc and observe all this data before getting
secondary research (i.e. google groups). I wanted to get an idea of
the industry before I performed more time intensive work. Maybe I'm
too risk averse to make the investment that the land would cost?
Hearing some averages would give me an idea that would give me reason
to move forward to some more concrete numbers. Sorry to everyone else
for complaining, I just dont like being told that I am too incompetant
to do something. I appreciate the other advice though.

Brandon




11 Jul 2007 07:38:55
sfb
Re: Driving range startup costs

Comments about land cost which is the big ticket item. Beware of comparing
your potential costs to existing ranges as they might actually be in the
land business not the range business.

Driving ranges are often property tax dodges. In some states, statutes
require taxing at current use not future or best possible use. Land owners
run driving ranges minimizing property taxes awaiting an opportunity to sell
the land to developers.

In other cases, the land is the owner's retirement fund. They bought the
land cheaply miles from anywhere decades ago awaiting an opportunity to sell
at a big profit as the city or town grows towards them.

<mobydick86@charter.net > wrote in message
news:1184127709.097398.162320@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 10, 8:32 pm, Larry Bud <larrybud2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 10, 12:22 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
>>
>> > A tavern sells the inventory. Adrivingrangerents theirs. You start the
>> > day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no
>> > way
>> > to reconcile the inventory and the till.
>>
>> You can apply that same situation to a number of mom and pop stores.
>> Small automotive shops, tire balancers, etc.
>
> WOW!! I am surprised at all of the replies! Thanks for all the
> helpful advice.
>
> While it seems that I could whip up a quick financial statement online
> and do extensive primary market research, golf courses and driving
> ranges are mostly private and are not required to file information
> publicly and it would be a huge waste of my time to sit at driving
> ranges, intersections, etc and observe all this data before getting
> secondary research (i.e. google groups). I wanted to get an idea of
> the industry before I performed more time intensive work. Maybe I'm
> too risk averse to make the investment that the land would cost?
> Hearing some averages would give me an idea that would give me reason
> to move forward to some more concrete numbers. Sorry to everyone else
> for complaining, I just dont like being told that I am too incompetant
> to do something. I appreciate the other advice though.
>
> Brandon
>
>




11 Jul 2007 14:33:35
Graham Waiffers
Re: Driving range startup costs

Driving ranges are primarly used to warehouse land and provide a small
stream of income to offset property taxes while awaiting future
development. Mini storage is another such land warehousing business.
Several decades drive-in movies filled this demand.

--
Graham Waiffers

The poster formerly known as Roger Thaat, Watson deMeneux or Jack Skwaht.


11 Jul 2007 14:54:36
Bobby Knight
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:33:35 GMT, Graham Waiffers
<Nevermind@some.e.mail.org > wrote:

>Driving ranges are primarly used to warehouse land and provide a small
>stream of income to offset property taxes while awaiting future
>development. Mini storage is another such land warehousing business.
>Several decades drive-in movies filled this demand.

Another is Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, TX.
--
___,
o
|
/
.
"Someone likes every shot"!
bk


14 Jul 2007 05:33:03
Bob Lambeau
Re: Driving range startup costs

mobydick86@charter.net wrote:
> On Jul 10, 8:32 pm, Larry Bud <larrybud2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 10, 12:22 pm, "sfb" <s...@spam.net> wrote:
>>
>>> A tavern sells the inventory. Adrivingrangerents theirs. You start the
>>> day with 10,000 balls and finish the day with 10,000 balls. There's no way
>>> to reconcile the inventory and the till.

snip
according to my local range he starts the year with 12,000 balls
at the end of the year roughly half of them are gone,
disappeared...mostly people take half the bucket home.
>
> WOW!! I am surprised at all of the replies! Thanks for all the
> helpful advice.
>
> While it seems that I could
snip
loose my shirt...yes
the owner of the range confided to me that if his wife didn't have her
good paying teaching job (with health insurance) the range that I go to
"would not exist" after he paid everybody his taxable income last year
was $20,000


I appreciate the other advice though.
>
> Brandon
>
>


14 Jul 2007 12:29:19
Howard Brazee
Re: Driving range startup costs

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:33:03 GMT, Bob Lambeau <bob@chaos.home.org >
wrote:

>> While it seems that I could
>snip
>loose my shirt...yes
>the owner of the range confided to me that if his wife didn't have her
>good paying teaching job (with health insurance) the range that I go to
>"would not exist" after he paid everybody his taxable income last year
>was $20,000

I believe that stand alone ranges tend to be designed to be cheaper
than empty lots - when the true investment is the land, waiting for a
developer to offer enough money to retire.