04 Jun 2005 15:03:04
Don Doyle
Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Hi All,

I recently moved to a golf course home.

I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?

I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.

One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
a film to protect them.

But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?

I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
role.

I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?

Don




04 Jun 2005 08:37:23
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Don Doyle wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>
> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>
> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> a film to protect them.
>
> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>
> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
> Don
>
>
Don,
I think that the "law" varies from state to state. Here in CA it's not a
clear cut issue IMO. There are those that think that if your house
existed before the course was created then you are legally due
reparation. And, if you buy/build a house on a golf course you should
know up front that you might sustain some damage and are therefore
legally responsible. All of that legal beagle stuff aside, IMO one is
responsible for their actions, regardless of what the letter of the law
says. If I break someones window, I'll pay for it, because that's the
right thing to do. And, my homeowners policy would cover it although
unless it was some major damage I wouldn't turn it in to insurance.
Dave


04 Jun 2005 12:29:38
Miss Anne Thrope
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Hitting someone on the course doesn't make it more serious...........it
makes it friggin hilarious. Instead of being concerned about golfer
damage to your home, you should be worried about the damage golfers
cause to society as a whole. Where do you think the popularity of
Dockers came from?



04 Jun 2005 16:39:51
Dsybok
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

One of the golf magazines did a very in depth story on this a couple of
years ago. If I remember, the gist of it was, new houses built on a golf
course, the homeowner assumes the risk, with the course having to do some
reasonable effort to place nets, trees and brush to screen houses. Except
that many homeowners on courses do not want nets ruining the view of the
course they paid for!

New houses on courses are also supposed to be built with shatter proof
windows or screening to prevent broken windows on exposures where it could
happen. Failing to do that in my opinion indemnifies the golfer from
responsibility and is just plain stupid.

On existing construction, where the course was added after the home, it was
less clear. Ive hit peoples roofs before, but never broken a window. I didnt
worry about it, they assume the risk by living there. I might apologize if I
broke a window, but I wouldnt offer to pay for it.

D

"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com > wrote in message
news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>
> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>
> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> a film to protect them.
>
> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>
> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
> Don
>
>




04 Jun 2005 16:50:17
TooManyPutters
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

As you may have noticed at most/some courses it is posted that the golf
course is not responsible for any damaged incurred by golfers. The golfer
"incurring" the damage to someone's property is responsible for that damage.
My home owner's liability covers any damage I cause to someone else's
property on the golf course. My home owner's comprehensive covers damage
caused by the golfer, assuming the golfer escapes into the woods, or doesn't
admit guilt. Of course the deductibles probably won't cover the cost of the
damage. And since "honesty" is a part of golf there would be no "not me"
golfers out there.


"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com > wrote in message
news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>
> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>
> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> a film to protect them.
>
> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>
> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
> Don
>
>




04 Jun 2005 10:31:28
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible



long&left wrote:
> Don Doyle wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I recently moved to a golf course home.
> >
> > I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> > neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> > were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
> >
> > I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> > should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> > have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
> >
> > One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> > a film to protect them.
> >
> > But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
> >
> > I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> > role.
> >
> > I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> > serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> > the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> > to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> Don,
> I think that the "law" varies from state to state. Here in CA it's not a
> clear cut issue IMO. There are those that think that if your house
> existed before the course was created then you are legally due
> reparation. And, if you buy/build a house on a golf course you should
> know up front that you might sustain some damage and are therefore
> legally responsible. All of that legal beagle stuff aside, IMO one is
> responsible for their actions, regardless of what the letter of the law
> says. If I break someones window, I'll pay for it, because that's the
> right thing to do. And, my homeowners policy would cover it although
> unless it was some major damage I wouldn't turn it in to insurance.
> Dave

Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)

I'm sure there's a broken roof tile or two at Monterey CC in Palm
Desert with my name on 'em, but I'm not climbing onto a roof to look.
If I take out a window, I'll leave my card and cover what it costs.
Hasn't happened yet, happily enough.

Fortunately, I've never hit a pull hook on one of the par 3 holes at
Black Gold. It's on a hillside overlooking a cul de sac and one of the
homeowners down there has a glorious screaming yellow Ferrari. Last
thing I need to do is crease the hood on a Ferrari. LOL

Bob
Rancho Cucamonga, CA



04 Jun 2005 18:44:35
JJK
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Bob wrote:
> Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
> matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)
<snip >


Agreed. However, some golf communities cram too many homes much too close to
the action.




04 Jun 2005 12:56:04
Mark A
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com > wrote in message
news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>
> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>
> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> a film to protect them.
>
> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>
> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
> Don
>
If you live in a golf course community where the developer built the golf
course and the homesites (even if a different builder built your home),
check the covenants of the community (given to you at time of closing),
which probably absolve the golfer of responsibility.

However, homesites are usually considered OB, and golfers cannot come on to
your property to retrieve balls or to play where it lies.




04 Jun 2005 18:58:11
TooManyPutters
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


"JJK" <surpher@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:nEmoe.149$Kj3.111@trnddc03...
> Bob wrote:
>> Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
>> matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)
> <snip>
>
>
> Agreed. However, some golf communities cram too many homes much too close
> to
> the action.

Don't matter. You are still responsible for your mishits. Is that misshits
or mishits?




04 Jun 2005 15:36:54
Richard F. Sayage
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


"TooManyPutters" <RainyDay@TheSwamp.com > wrote in message
news:7Rmoe.22389$_z6.1456368@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>
> "JJK" <surpher@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:nEmoe.149$Kj3.111@trnddc03...
>> Bob wrote:
>>> Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
>>> matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>> Agreed. However, some golf communities cram too many homes much too close
>> to
>> the action.
>
> Don't matter. You are still responsible for your mishits. Is that
> misshits or mishits?
>

I like the former, but the latter is correct! :-)

Richard




04 Jun 2005 20:54:00
JJK
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Bob wrote:
> >> Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
> >> matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)
> > <snip>

JJK" wrote
> > Agreed. However, some golf communities cram too many homes much too
close
> > to
> > the action.


TooManyPutters wrote:
> Don't matter. You are still responsible for your mishits. Is that
misshits
> or mishits?


You misunderstood what I said.

I agreed with the previous poster that the golfer is responsible for his/her
shots.

My second statement is one of regret that some golf course communities cram
too many homes in and place many too close to the course. It would be
unreasonable for a homeowner on these tracks to expect that their home would
never get peppered (the golfer is still responsible for his/her shot). In
addition, these kinds of courses are not particularly attractive.




04 Jun 2005 18:36:39
Roger Pattee
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:56:04 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com >
wrote:

>"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com> wrote in message
>news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>>
>> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
>> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
>> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>>
>> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
>> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
>> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>>
>> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
>> a film to protect them.
>>
>> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>>
>> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
>> role.
>>
>> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
>> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
>> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
>> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>>
>> Don
>>
>If you live in a golf course community where the developer built the golf
>course and the homesites (even if a different builder built your home),
>check the covenants of the community (given to you at time of closing),
>which probably absolve the golfer of responsibility.
--------
No community covenant can absolve anyone of personal responsibility.

A covenant, in that meaning, pertains to restrictions governing the
use of real estate. It has nothing to do with absolving anyone of
responsibility.

Covenants, conditions & restrictions may tell you how big your house
can be, how you 'must' landscape your yard or whether you can have
pets, where you can park your personal water craft, etc.

No community covenant can release someone from personal
responsibility, as in the situation of a golfer's mishit causing
damage.
--------
>
>However, homesites are usually considered OB, and golfers cannot come on to
>your property to retrieve balls or to play where it lies.
>
--------
You would be amazed at the amount of people who get into pissing
contests, some of which have resulted in arrests, due to the golfer
demanding their golf ball back, trespassing and attempting to retrieve
an errant golf ball. There are some really stupid people out there.

Many posters in this thread have advised the correct answer; Personal
responsibility-the golfer who caused the damage IS responsible for it.

I am amused at some of the thoughts being posted on this.

Just like anywhere else, you have people denying responsibility for
their actions.

It's not 'their' fault they are lousey golfers..it's the fault of the
homeowner who decided to buy/build near a golf course they decided to
hack up..LOL

And the golfer's homeowners insurance will cover the damage
(deductibles applied as need be-some policys don't have deductibles in
such cases. Check your's, it may surprise you.).


05 Jun 2005 09:43:02
david s-a
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


"Roger Pattee" <motordawg1@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:lj94a1tqc21qq1751870v80mcjtjv02spv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:56:04 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com> wrote in message
> >news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I recently moved to a golf course home.


>
> And the golfer's homeowners insurance will cover the damage
> (deductibles applied as need be-some policys don't have deductibles in
> such cases. Check your's, it may surprise you.).

Golf course home owner, "Hi Mr Insurance man, I've just bought this
house close to the slice side of a short par 4 hole of a golf course. I
need general insurance against damage caused to my home by errant golf
balls struck from the course, and I would also like to include public
liability cover for any person on my property who is injured by such a
golf ball........, can you quote?"

Mr Insurance Man, "Are you kidding, why should we/you have to pay for
damage caused by idiots out there who cannot play golf
properly........that is the responsibility of the golfer and the owner
of the golf course............but, if you insist, how about you pay me a
million bucks a day.........and I'll gladly cover the damage costs...and
I won't even try and recover them from the person who caused them..,
although we could sue the course owner, and have him move his bloody par
4 to a safer place!"

I know of at least one golf club and course in Melbourne, Oz, that is
having to relocate because of increasing costs of actions against them
by adjacent home owners......they are making more money by turning it
into a housing estate anyway.....and it was originally built as a golf
course housing community!

cheers
david



04 Jun 2005 20:07:09
Roger Pattee
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:43:02 +1000, "david s-a"
<dsantwyk@bigpond.net.au > wrote:

>
>"Roger Pattee" <motordawg1@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:lj94a1tqc21qq1751870v80mcjtjv02spv@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:56:04 -0600, "Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com> wrote in message
>> >news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
>> >> Hi All,
>> >>
>> >> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
>
>>
>> And the golfer's homeowners insurance will cover the damage
>> (deductibles applied as need be-some policys don't have deductibles in
>> such cases. Check your's, it may surprise you.).
>
>Golf course home owner, "Hi Mr Insurance man, I've just bought this
>house close to the slice side of a short par 4 hole of a golf course. I
>need general insurance against damage caused to my home by errant golf
>balls struck from the course, and I would also like to include public
>liability cover for any person on my property who is injured by such a
>golf ball........, can you quote?"
>
>Mr Insurance Man, "Are you kidding, why should we/you have to pay for
>damage caused by idiots out there who cannot play golf
>properly........that is the responsibility of the golfer and the owner
>of the golf course............but, if you insist, how about you pay me a
>million bucks a day.........and I'll gladly cover the damage costs...and
>I won't even try and recover them from the person who caused them..,
>although we could sue the course owner, and have him move his bloody par
>4 to a safer place!"
>
>I know of at least one golf club and course in Melbourne, Oz, that is
>having to relocate because of increasing costs of actions against them
>by adjacent home owners......they are making more money by turning it
>into a housing estate anyway.....and it was originally built as a golf
>course housing community!
>
>cheers
>david
----------
Insurance sure is expensive in the Land of Oz.
You either have one helluva lot of mishitting hackers or very rich
insurance agents/companies.

Do you have covenants in the Land of Oz?
Have a nice day.


04 Jun 2005 17:21:37
David
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

I remember that article and basically got the same message: From a legal
standpoint, if you buy a house in a golf course community and your house is
damaged, it is your responsibility to pay for repairs - not the golfers.
There may be some exceptions to that but basic idea is that the homeowner
chose to put themself in harms way and should have expected that their house
would get hit. It may be a different story if the home is outside the
boundaries of the golf course community and existed prior to the golf course
being built.

This is different from the golfer feeling like they are morally responsible.
If I broke someone's window, I would feel bad about it and offer to pay for
damages. However, I don't think the law would require me to do this.

Are there any attorneys out there who can provide some additional insight?



"Dsybok" <dsybok@nospamhotmail.com > wrote in message
news:rPkoe.1812$W77.1753@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> One of the golf magazines did a very in depth story on this a couple of
> years ago. If I remember, the gist of it was, new houses built on a golf
> course, the homeowner assumes the risk, with the course having to do some
> reasonable effort to place nets, trees and brush to screen houses. Except
> that many homeowners on courses do not want nets ruining the view of the
> course they paid for!
>
> New houses on courses are also supposed to be built with shatter proof
> windows or screening to prevent broken windows on exposures where it could
> happen. Failing to do that in my opinion indemnifies the golfer from
> responsibility and is just plain stupid.
>
> On existing construction, where the course was added after the home, it
was
> less clear. Ive hit peoples roofs before, but never broken a window. I
didnt
> worry about it, they assume the risk by living there. I might apologize if
I
> broke a window, but I wouldnt offer to pay for it.
>
> D
>
> "Don Doyle" <info@4customcreations.com> wrote in message
> news:g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I recently moved to a golf course home.
> >
> > I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> > neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> > were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
> >
> > I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> > should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> > have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
> >
> > One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> > a film to protect them.
> >
> > But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
> >
> > I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> > role.
> >
> > I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> > serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> > the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> > to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
>
>




05 Jun 2005 04:16:41
sfb
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

I'm not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

I doubt very much that a contract between a developer and a home buyer
could absolve a third party of any responsibility. If two parties can
commit a third without their knowledge, then me and the bank just signed
you up to pay my mortgage. Our contacts only say the golf club is not
responsible.

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com > wrote in message
news:jO-dnTfEMqDeZDzfRVn-sw@comcast.com...

> If you live in a golf course community where the developer built the
> golf course and the homesites (even if a different builder built your
> home), check the covenants of the community (given to you at time of
> closing), which probably absolve the golfer of responsibility.
>
> However, homesites are usually considered OB, and golfers cannot come
> on to your property to retrieve balls or to play where it lies.
>




04 Jun 2005 22:07:20
Fish
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


"TooManyPutters" <RainyDay@TheSwamp.com > wrote in message
news:dZkoe.22381$_z6.1445528@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> As you may have noticed at most/some courses it is posted that the golf
> course is not responsible for any damaged incurred by golfers.

The golf course posting this has nothing to do with the assignment of
liability by the courts. These signs are an attempt by the course to bluff
their way out of what may be their responsibility. The fact is, legally, it
may well be the course's responsibility for the damage caused by their
patrons, as it would be for a gas station or a quick mart whose design was
poorly conceived as far as the possibility of damage to their neighbors is
concerned. Posting a sign has little weight in court as to the actual
culpability of a party for negligence. They are simply an attempt to
dissuade people from suing.





05 Jun 2005 13:03:50
Don Doyle
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

To all,

Thanks for the replies.

It seems that most here would do the honest thing and accept their
responsibility. However, as we unfortunately know the golf courses
are filled with those who think otherwise.

Hell, they won't even sand a divot or repair a ball mark; so I doubt
they would pay for any damage.

One neighbor who lives at the end of the driving range - yep talk
about poor planing - kept bitching about balls in his yard. So, the
course put up a black chain link fence. It looks like shit - makes
the guys house look like a prison. The guy still gets balls in his
yard, but now he has an ugly fence to look at as well. Fortunately, I
can't see it from my house.

Don






05 Jun 2005 14:55:33
The Professor
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible



Don Doyle wrote:

> To all,
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> It seems that most here would do the honest thing and accept their
> responsibility. However, as we unfortunately know the golf courses
> are filled with those who think otherwise.
>
> Hell, they won't even sand a divot or repair a ball mark; so I doubt
> they would pay for any damage.
>

It's easy to "require" other people to be "responsible" and easy to talk
of replacing a window or something like that, but if your errant shot hits
a 20 foot X 10 foot special glass window (that mught cost say $40K to
replace) , totally shattering it, with the shards of glass landing all
over a person laying on a $10,000 antique couch, seriously injuring the
person and destroying the couch, I suspect most of us would be looking for
legal advice so as to avoid that *REAL* responsibility!

IOW, TALK IS CHEAP!!!

Rob



--
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/SEGOLF/




05 Jun 2005 11:43:40
Lee Gordon
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

<<It's easy to "require" other people to be "responsible" and easy to talk
of replacing a window or something like that, but if your errant shot hits
a 20 foot X 10 foot special glass window (that mught cost say $40K to
replace) , totally shattering it, with the shards of glass landing all
over a person laying on a $10,000 antique couch, seriously injuring the
person and destroying the couch, I suspect most of us would be looking for
legal advice so as to avoid that *REAL* responsibility!

IOW, TALK IS CHEAP!!! >>

But golfers are an honest lot so the guy who hit the shot WOULD take a
stroke & distance penalty.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"




05 Jun 2005 08:44:49
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

The Professor wrote:
>
> Don Doyle wrote:
>
>
>>To all,
>>
>>Thanks for the replies.
>>
>>It seems that most here would do the honest thing and accept their
>>responsibility. However, as we unfortunately know the golf courses
>>are filled with those who think otherwise.
>>
>>Hell, they won't even sand a divot or repair a ball mark; so I doubt
>>they would pay for any damage.
>>
>
>
> It's easy to "require" other people to be "responsible" and easy to talk
> of replacing a window or something like that, but if your errant shot hits
> a 20 foot X 10 foot special glass window (that mught cost say $40K to
> replace) , totally shattering it, with the shards of glass landing all
> over a person laying on a $10,000 antique couch, seriously injuring the
> person and destroying the couch, I suspect most of us would be looking for
> legal advice so as to avoid that *REAL* responsibility!
>
> IOW, TALK IS CHEAP!!!
>
> Rob
>

that's one hell of a a piece of glass. The highest end residential low
emissivity, pyrolytically coated (reflective) insulated glass would cost
$3+/- per sq ft. That's $900 bucks plus labor, say 2 guys a whole day at
$45 per hour. That's another $720 or $1620 bucks total for the glass and
my homeowners would cover it no problem. As for the dumb sh*t who's
lying on a $10k couch under the window, he got what he deserved :)
Dave


05 Jun 2005 16:14:51
sfb
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Some of these big single piece windows can be very expensive as they
require very thick and strong glass to prevent sagging, especially
reinforced frames and walls to handle the weight, and a serious piece of
labor and rigging to install.

"long&left" <nospam@diespammers.com > wrote in message
news:M5Foe.2132$rt3.1962@fe03.lga...
>
> that's one hell of a a piece of glass. The highest end residential low
> emissivity, pyrolytically coated (reflective) insulated glass would
> cost $3+/- per sq ft. That's $900 bucks plus labor, say 2 guys a whole
> day at $45 per hour. That's another $720 or $1620 bucks total for the
> glass and my homeowners would cover it no problem. As for the dumb
> sh*t who's lying on a $10k couch under the window, he got what he
> deserved :)
> Dave




05 Jun 2005 09:58:18
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

dear sfb,
I've been in the residential and commercial glass business since 1969
and never have I seen anything close to a $40k piece of residential
glass. And, in reality, whom in their right mind would install an
expensive piece of glass facing a tee box anyway, not to mention be
lying on a $10k couch right underneath it. Rob's scenario was a bit over
the top don't you think?
Dave

sfb wrote:
> Some of these big single piece windows can be very expensive as they
> require very thick and strong glass to prevent sagging, especially
> reinforced frames and walls to handle the weight, and a serious piece of
> labor and rigging to install.
>
> "long&left" <nospam@diespammers.com> wrote in message
> news:M5Foe.2132$rt3.1962@fe03.lga...
>
>>that's one hell of a a piece of glass. The highest end residential low
>>emissivity, pyrolytically coated (reflective) insulated glass would
>>cost $3+/- per sq ft. That's $900 bucks plus labor, say 2 guys a whole
>>day at $45 per hour. That's another $720 or $1620 bucks total for the
>>glass and my homeowners would cover it no problem. As for the dumb
>>sh*t who's lying on a $10k couch under the window, he got what he
>>deserved :)
>>Dave
>
>
>


05 Jun 2005 17:36:24
The Professor
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

I've seen some pretty fancy homes in the firing line of golf courses, and some
pretty fancy glass (and I'm not talking about your basic see through the
window kind of clear glass, but textured and colored specially made glass).
I've also seen people pull tee shots and hit homes on the other side of the
street from those lining the fairway. I saw a guy take out a bathroom window
on a house about 240 out and maybe 60 yards to the right of the OB mark.

The example was meant to be OTT though! But you could take out their champion
Pomeranean whilst it basks in the yard! Or bop some poor turkey mowing his
lawn, and incur some serious liability!

long&left wrote:

> dear sfb,
> I've been in the residential and commercial glass business since 1969
> and never have I seen anything close to a $40k piece of residential
> glass. And, in reality, whom in their right mind would install an
> expensive piece of glass facing a tee box anyway, not to mention be
> lying on a $10k couch right underneath it. Rob's scenario was a bit over
> the top don't you think?
> Dave
>
> sfb wrote:
> > Some of these big single piece windows can be very expensive as they
> > require very thick and strong glass to prevent sagging, especially
> > reinforced frames and walls to handle the weight, and a serious piece of
> > labor and rigging to install.
> >
> > "long&left" <nospam@diespammers.com> wrote in message
> > news:M5Foe.2132$rt3.1962@fe03.lga...
> >
> >>that's one hell of a a piece of glass. The highest end residential low
> >>emissivity, pyrolytically coated (reflective) insulated glass would
> >>cost $3+/- per sq ft. That's $900 bucks plus labor, say 2 guys a whole
> >>day at $45 per hour. That's another $720 or $1620 bucks total for the
> >>glass and my homeowners would cover it no problem. As for the dumb
> >>sh*t who's lying on a $10k couch under the window, he got what he
> >>deserved :)
> >>Dave
> >
> >
> >

--
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/SEGOLF/




05 Jun 2005 11:40:53
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

The Professor wrote:
> I've seen some pretty fancy homes in the firing line of golf courses, and some
> pretty fancy glass (and I'm not talking about your basic see through the
> window kind of clear glass, but textured and colored specially made glass).
> I've also seen people pull tee shots and hit homes on the other side of the
> street from those lining the fairway. I saw a guy take out a bathroom window
> on a house about 240 out and maybe 60 yards to the right of the OB mark.
>
> The example was meant to be OTT though! But you could take out their champion
> Pomeranean whilst it basks in the yard! Or bop some poor turkey mowing his
> lawn, and incur some serious liability!
>

given all of the golf courses in the world and all of the golfers that
play those golf courses, I wonder how many $40k windows have been
broken? How many Pomeraneans have been taken out? How many people have
been killed? Not enough to even be having this conversation. There are a
lot of situations where a person could incur a lot more liablilty than
you could on a golf course and no one thinks much about it. I worry more
about getting hit head on by a drunk driver than being bonked by a golf
ball!
Dave


05 Jun 2005 18:46:48
TooManyPutters
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

. > given all of the golf courses in the world and all of the golfers that
> play those golf courses, I wonder how many $40k windows have been broken?
> How many Pomeraneans have been taken out? How many people have been
> killed? Not enough to even be having this conversation. There are a lot of
> situations where a person could incur a lot more liablilty than you could
> on a golf course and no one thinks much about it. I worry more about
> getting hit head on by a drunk driver than being bonked by a golf ball!
> Dave

Then you need to discuss drunk driving in another news group. A friend of
mine does live on a golf course, and has a 20 foot mesh screen to block
errant shots. That was after 3 windows got broken out. In each case the
golfer hitting the shot paid for the window. What I despise is someone
taking a leak against a tree off the tee box in a community where it's
visible for all to see.




05 Jun 2005 11:59:14
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

TooManyPutters wrote:
> .> given all of the golf courses in the world and all of the golfers that
>
>>play those golf courses, I wonder how many $40k windows have been broken?
>>How many Pomeraneans have been taken out? How many people have been
>>killed? Not enough to even be having this conversation. There are a lot of
>>situations where a person could incur a lot more liablilty than you could
>>on a golf course and no one thinks much about it. I worry more about
>>getting hit head on by a drunk driver than being bonked by a golf ball!
>>Dave
>
>
> Then you need to discuss drunk driving in another news group. A friend of
> mine does live on a golf course, and has a 20 foot mesh screen to block
> errant shots. That was after 3 windows got broken out. In each case the
> golfer hitting the shot paid for the window. What I despise is someone
> taking a leak against a tree off the tee box in a community where it's
> visible for all to see.
>
>
doesn't everyone live at the golf course? :) We have homes that have
screens here, but not many. And in the 1 1/2 years that I've been here
I've only heard about two instances of damage: one a car hood was
dented, assailant unknown, and the other a window broken but the person
who did it left their name and number and took care of it. I know pretty
much everyone who lives here and play golf most every day so it's not
like property damage is a big deal here. We have 350+ homes with most
all of them having some exposure to the golf course.

and, I'll discuss drunk driving here if I like thank you very much
Dave


06 Jun 2005 00:14:34
Don Doyle
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Hopefully, I won't have to deal with any of the situations. but the
view is well worth the consequences.

However, one hole on the course has an OB about 30 yards off of I-75 -
a very busy freeway. There are tall pine trees blocking it and I
haven't heard of anybody hitting a ball into an oncoming car - but I
wouldn't want to see that happen. Definitely not a hole for a banana
ball.

What does surprise me is that I have not heard a single swear word
from anyone playing. Perhaps it is because I overlook the first green
and they haven't had enough time to get pissed off. :-)

Don

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:59:14 -0700, long&left <nospam@diespammers.com >
wrote:




06 Jun 2005 13:35:11
Howard Brazee
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


On 4-Jun-2005, "TooManyPutters" <RainyDay@TheSwamp.com > wrote:

> As you may have noticed at most/some courses it is posted that the golf
> course is not responsible for any damaged incurred by golfers.

And locker rooms have "not responsible for lost or stolen items" signs. I
figure these signs mean "please don't sue us".


06 Jun 2005 13:49:09
sfb
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

My friend the real estate agent told a great story at dinner last night.
She has been working on a deal with a couple from up north to build
their dream retirement house on the golf course. Friday, she picked them
up at the airport and took them to the lawyer's office where they signed
the contracts and wrote the first of what will be an endless stream of
big checks. From there, it was off the country club for lunch and
another big check to finalize joining the club. The last stop was at the
lot for photos for the folks back home. Lo and behold, there were four
guys walking around what will be the swimming pool looking for a golf
ball.

She said that every realtor has a story about golf balls hitting a house
while they were showing it to perspective buyers.

Her suggestion to see how vulnerable a house might be is looking at the
metal like downspouts and window frames for golf ball dimples.




06 Jun 2005 10:40:18
Mark Loy
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

In article <g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com >,
info@4customcreations.com wrote:

> I recently moved to a golf course home.

<snip errant shots a doin' damage >

> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?


Last year, during my very first round of the season, I hit my third shot
on the par 5 first hole at Indian Lake CC, here in Indianapolis, and
sliced it beyond the capacity of rational thought out of bounds onto the
street next to the course, and nailed the hood of a passing BMW.

Oh, the humanity.

The driver stopped and came back...I owned up (I did, after all, hit the
horrific shot)...and I awaited the results of an estimate on the costs to
remove a very small dent.

$1000.00

Yes, you heard me right. I would have paid, out of pocket, up to a couple
of hundred dollars but for this...I turned it in to my insurance.

They asked me if I had been negligent, ie, fooling around, knocking balls
toward the street on purpose, otherwise acting irresponsibly, were
intoxicated or otherwise under the influence and I said, "not in any way,
that it was simply a case of early season rustiness"--I don't ever
remember before or since slicing a five iron in my life--to which they
replied that they were, for the sake of legal precedent, not going to pay
a dime to the BMW owner.

I was quite surprised. There argument was that I was not acting
recklessly or illegally or irresponsibly and they were therefore not
liable to any damages incurred. The BMW owner was pissed--I really can't
blame him and I did offer to take the dent to another body shop, of which
I am confident in their honesty, for another estimate that I would pay for
out-of-pocket, leaving the insurance guys out of the equation...a thousand
dollars to "pull" a dent that had no paint dislodged etc. seems quite
excessive, possibly even meant to replace the entire hood...but the owner
declined. I offered him $250 which he also declined, rather huffily, it
seemed to me.

I then told him that it was out of my hands and he would have to deal with
State Farm.

That was the last I heard about it. State Farm never paid, I never had to
go to small claims court. Nothing.

I still wonder what happened. I wonder if the guy didn't inflate his
damages to get more than it would have cost to repair the dent and that is
why he didn't pursue further litigation with either State Farm or yours
truly.

<shrug >

I still feel bad that I hit the worst shot of my life and damaged an
innocent person's property, though.










ML


06 Jun 2005 17:59:08
Rick Rider
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:40:18 -0600, mloy@iupui.edu (Mark Loy) wrote:

>In article <g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com>,
>info@4customcreations.com wrote:
>
>> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
><snip errant shots a doin' damage>
>
>> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
>> role.
>>
>> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
>> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
>> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
>> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
>
>Last year, during my very first round of the season, I hit my third shot
>on the par 5 first hole at Indian Lake CC, here in Indianapolis, and
>sliced it beyond the capacity of rational thought out of bounds onto the
>street next to the course, and nailed the hood of a passing BMW.
>
>Oh, the humanity.
>
>The driver stopped and came back...I owned up (I did, after all, hit the
>horrific shot)...and I awaited the results of an estimate on the costs to
>remove a very small dent.
>
>$1000.00
>
>Yes, you heard me right. I would have paid, out of pocket, up to a couple
>of hundred dollars but for this...I turned it in to my insurance.
>
>They asked me if I had been negligent, ie, fooling around, knocking balls
>toward the street on purpose, otherwise acting irresponsibly, were
>intoxicated or otherwise under the influence and I said, "not in any way,
>that it was simply a case of early season rustiness"--I don't ever
>remember before or since slicing a five iron in my life--to which they
>replied that they were, for the sake of legal precedent, not going to pay
>a dime to the BMW owner.
>
>I was quite surprised. There argument was that I was not acting
>recklessly or illegally or irresponsibly and they were therefore not
>liable to any damages incurred. The BMW owner was pissed--I really can't
>blame him and I did offer to take the dent to another body shop, of which
>I am confident in their honesty, for another estimate that I would pay for
>out-of-pocket, leaving the insurance guys out of the equation...a thousand
>dollars to "pull" a dent that had no paint dislodged etc. seems quite
>excessive, possibly even meant to replace the entire hood...but the owner
>declined. I offered him $250 which he also declined, rather huffily, it
>seemed to me.
>
>I then told him that it was out of my hands and he would have to deal with
>State Farm.
>
>That was the last I heard about it. State Farm never paid, I never had to
>go to small claims court. Nothing.
>
>I still wonder what happened. I wonder if the guy didn't inflate his
>damages to get more than it would have cost to repair the dent and that is
>why he didn't pursue further litigation with either State Farm or yours
>truly.
>
><shrug>
>
>I still feel bad that I hit the worst shot of my life and damaged an
>innocent person's property, though.
>
>
State Farm never pays for anything.








06 Jun 2005 11:11:58
p4o2@webtv.net
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

If the course was there when you built/bought the house, suck it up.

If the golf hole was built/changed after you built/bought, then your
complaint(s) are valid.



06 Jun 2005 20:34:41
sfb
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Too simplistic. If the course and homes are part of one big development
with some sort of governing rules, then it doesn't matter which was
built first.

<p4o2@webtv.net > wrote in message
news:1118081518.538276.245190@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> If the course was there when you built/bought the house, suck it up.
>
> If the golf hole was built/changed after you built/bought, then your
> complaint(s) are valid.
>




06 Jun 2005 13:58:31
long&left
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

sfb wrote:
> Too simplistic. If the course and homes are part of one big development
> with some sort of governing rules, then it doesn't matter which was
> built first.
>

in CA it does...at my course the course and houses were all a part of
the original development plan, then the course was built first, then the
houses. Anyone who bought a house here knew that they were on a golf
course and subject to being hit by golf balls. I'm wondering what
"governing rules" could be included in a development that would relieve
homeowners from responsibility.

I will note again that I firmly believe in taking responsibility for my
actions including damaging someones property while playing golf so I'm
not discussing morality, I'm discussing legality.
Dave


06 Jun 2005 20:53:09
Howard Brazee
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


On 6-Jun-2005, "sfb" <sfb@spam.net > wrote:

> > If the course was there when you built/bought the house, suck it up.
> >
> > If the golf hole was built/changed after you built/bought, then your
> > complaint(s) are valid.

> Too simplistic. If the course and homes are part of one big development
> with some sort of governing rules, then it doesn't matter which was
> built first.

Why? My home course has 3 houses that were there before the development as
started. They happen to be pretty well protected from golfers, and have
probably appreciated considerably in price since the development started.

But assume they were closer by. Someone bought a house as a place to raise
kids. He built a swing set in the back yard. Someone else came in and built
a golf course, right where my slice goes into his back yard. This is the case
you're quoting above. The homeowner has a valid complaint.

All the houses that were built on the golf course were sold to people who know
there's a golf course going there. Usually (if not always) such developments
*start* with the golf course being built - because the golf course sells houses,
and the layout is designed in conjunction with the community design - to get the
most houses against the golf course as possible.


06 Jun 2005 14:14:08
Scooter
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

<snip >

They asked me if I had been negligent, ie, fooling around, knocking
balls
toward the street on purpose, otherwise acting irresponsibly, were
intoxicated or otherwise under the influence and I said, "not in any
way,
that it was simply a case of early season rustiness"--I don't ever
remember before or since slicing a five iron in my life--to which they
replied that they were, for the sake of legal precedent, not going to
pay
a dime to the BMW owner.

<snip >

That is the logic I always thought made sense. If you're not acting
irresponsibly then I believe either the course or the homeowner should
be responsible- depending on whether the homeowner or golf course was
there first. Afterall it IS a golf course. You're supposed to be there
playing golf and part of playing golf, even for the best in the world,
is that your shots don't always go where you want them to go.

On the other hand, if you're drunk, or trying to cut corners over
houses, or otherwise acting irresponsibly then of course the golfer
should be liable.



06 Jun 2005 15:30:53
Roald Oines
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Mark Loy <mloy@iupui.edu > typed:
: In article <g4g3a19a9b0d1357e68d674cl5v6oq4pi1@4ax.com >,
: info@4customcreations.com wrote:
:
<snip >
:
:
: Last year, during my very first round of the season, I hit my third
: shot on the par 5 first hole at Indian Lake CC, here in Indianapolis,
: and sliced it beyond the capacity of rational thought out of bounds
: onto the street next to the course, and nailed the hood of a passing
: BMW.
:
: Oh, the humanity.
:
: The driver stopped and came back...I owned up (I did, after all, hit
: the horrific shot)...and I awaited the results of an estimate on the
: costs to remove a very small dent.
:
: $1000.00
:
: Yes, you heard me right. I would have paid, out of pocket, up to a
: couple of hundred dollars but for this...I turned it in to my
: insurance.
:
: They asked me if I had been negligent, ie, fooling around, knocking
: balls toward the street on purpose, otherwise acting irresponsibly,
: were intoxicated or otherwise under the influence and I said, "not in
: any way, that it was simply a case of early season rustiness"--I
: don't ever remember before or since slicing a five iron in my
: life--to which they replied that they were, for the sake of legal
: precedent, not going to pay a dime to the BMW owner.
:
: I was quite surprised. There argument was that I was not acting
: recklessly or illegally or irresponsibly and they were therefore not
: liable to any damages incurred. The BMW owner was pissed--I really
: can't blame him and I did offer to take the dent to another body
: shop, of which I am confident in their honesty, for another estimate
: that I would pay for out-of-pocket, leaving the insurance guys out of
: the equation...a thousand dollars to "pull" a dent that had no paint
: dislodged etc. seems quite excessive, possibly even meant to replace
: the entire hood...but the owner declined. I offered him $250 which
: he also declined, rather huffily, it seemed to me.
:
: I then told him that it was out of my hands and he would have to deal
: with State Farm.
:
: That was the last I heard about it. State Farm never paid, I never
: had to go to small claims court. Nothing.
:
: I still wonder what happened. I wonder if the guy didn't inflate his
: damages to get more than it would have cost to repair the dent and
: that is why he didn't pursue further litigation with either State
: Farm or yours truly.
:
: <shrug >
:
: I still feel bad that I hit the worst shot of my life and damaged an
: innocent person's property, though.
:
<snip >
:
: ML

That's the difference between liability and responsibility. While you
(and I would) feel "responsible," legally absent negligence we're not
"liable." Here's an article on Colorado's law on golfer-cause damage:
http://www.9news.com/issue/golfballs.htm.
--
Please remove the under_scores if replying by mail.




06 Jun 2005 14:53:47
Scooter
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

<snip >

They asked me if I had been negligent, ie, fooling around, knocking
balls
toward the street on purpose, otherwise acting irresponsibly, were
intoxicated or otherwise under the influence and I said, "not in any
way,
that it was simply a case of early season rustiness"--I don't ever
remember before or since slicing a five iron in my life--to which they
replied that they were, for the sake of legal precedent, not going to
pay
a dime to the BMW owner

<snip >


That is the logic I always thought made sense. If you're not acting
irresponsibly then I believe either the course or the homeowner should
be responsible- depending on whether the homeowner or golf course was
there first. Afterall it IS a golf course. You're supposed to be there
playing golf and part of playing golf, even for the best in the world,
is that your shots don't always go where you want them to go.


On the other hand, if you're drunk, or trying to cut corners over
houses, or otherwise acting irresponsibly then of course the golfer
should be liable.



06 Jun 2005 23:36:03
Gary DeWaay
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Don Doyle's at info@4customcreations.com wisdom:


>
> Hi All,
>
> I recently moved to a golf course home.
>
> I was talking with my neighbors the other day about our expanding
> neighborhood. The course will have more and more homes on it and we
> were wondering what is the "law" about damage caused by a stray shot?
>
> I have mixed feelings as I realize that living on a golf course one
> should expect an errant shot to land by ones house. Fortunately, I
> have only had a couple balls in my yard and none have hit the house.
>
> One neighbor who is in the line of fire, had his window's covered with
> a film to protect them.
>
> But, what would you do if you hit someone's house and did some damage?
>
> I think many would probably drop another ball and play the "not me"
> role.
>
> I know that laws vary from location to location, but what if some
> serious damage was done and it was witnessed by someone that you hit
> the ball? Does your home owner's insurance cover the damage? Or even
> to make it more serious, what if you hit someone on the course?
>
>


If you purposely built (or bought) a fancy-ass house right next to a
shooting range, would you expect damages if some pellets accidently hit
your house?

Would you try and sue motorists because they make so much noise at your
house purposely built right next to an interstate?

Rediculous.

I have a friend that broke a window on a house while golfing, and he paid
for it... I thought he was nuts.

If I were you though, it would be worth asking if it happened. Obviously
there are Good Samaritans that will pay up.

I'd tell you to take a flying fucking leap into a load of horse dung.

Houses like yours fuck up my game by forcing me to worry about them.




--
Gary



06 Jun 2005 23:41:43
Gary DeWaay
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Mark Loy's at mloy@iupui.edu wisdom:


>
> That was the last I heard about it. State Farm never paid, I never had to
> go to small claims court. Nothing.
>
> I still wonder what happened. I wonder if the guy didn't inflate his
> damages to get more than it would have cost to repair the dent and that is
> why he didn't pursue further litigation with either State Farm or yours
> truly.
>
> <shrug>
>
> I still feel bad that I hit the worst shot of my life and damaged an
> innocent person's property, though.
>
>


I would too... he was an innocent person on a public highway not expecting
damage to his property.

People that build fancy-ass houses 15 yards from OB can go fuck themselves
if damage happens, OTOH.



--
Gary



06 Jun 2005 23:49:24
Gary DeWaay
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

long&left's at nospam@diespammers.com wisdom:


> sfb wrote:
> > Too simplistic. If the course and homes are part of one big development
> > with some sort of governing rules, then it doesn't matter which was
> > built first.
> >
>
> in CA it does...at my course the course and houses were all a part of
> the original development plan, then the course was built first, then the
> houses. Anyone who bought a house here knew that they were on a golf
> course and subject to being hit by golf balls. I'm wondering what
> "governing rules" could be included in a development that would relieve
> homeowners from responsibility.
>
> I will note again that I firmly believe in taking responsibility for my
> actions including damaging someones property while playing golf so I'm
> not discussing morality, I'm discussing legality.
> Dave
>


I think it is immoral to build a house so close to a golf course that
golfers have to worry about such things.

Maybe it's just me.

I once golfed at a course where the asshole homeowner parked his brand new
Suburban not 50 yards off the tee box on number ONE.

I almost felt like aiming at it for principles sake.


--
Gary



07 Jun 2005 05:51:56
dsc
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible



TooManyPutters wrote:
> "JJK" <surpher@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:nEmoe.149$Kj3.111@trnddc03...
> > Bob wrote:
> >> Ditto. I hit the shot, I'm responsible. What the law says doesn't
> >> matter to me--in this and many other cases, come to think of it. ;-)
> > <snip>
> >
> >
> > Agreed. However, some golf communities cram too many homes much too close
> > to
> > the action.
>
> Don't matter. You are still responsible for your mishits. Is that misshits
> or mishits?

I can't agree *completely* with this line of reasoning. If you know
your house is only 20 yards right and 15 yards short of the number 12
par three (180 yards long)... you have to know it's going to get hit. A
lot! :) You *should* assume *some* of the the risk when you make the
*bad* decision to purchase it. :) You are responsible for where you
live... :) If your house is that vulnerable... you *should* take
*responsibility* for it and put up a net. It's the right thing to do. :)



07 Jun 2005 13:30:14
Howard Brazee
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

The same thing happens with people moving close to the airport and then
complaining about the noise.


08 Jun 2005 01:59:59
Don Doyle
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible

Mark,

Re: The cost to fix the dent in the hood of the BMW.

First, you are an honest guy and owned up to it - for that I
compliment you

My neighbor has a new BMW and it got a very minor scratch on the right
rear wheel well - by a guy in the parking lot while they were in the
vehicle. I honestly know that I could have fixed it with rubbing
compound. The cost to fix it was over $1K. They said they had to
paint the whole quarter panel. Must be some BMW thing! :-)

Don





08 Jun 2005 02:14:38
Don Doyle
Re: Golfer Damage - Who's responsible


>
>
>If you purposely built (or bought) a fancy-ass house right next to a
>shooting range, would you expect damages if some pellets accidently hit
>your house?

What does the type of house have to do with it? I never said I was
complaining about anything - just asking a question. Although I bet
you would be pissed if someone put a golf ball through your tent!
>
>Would you try and sue motorists because they make so much noise at your
>house purposely built right next to an interstate?
I wouldn't know what it is like living under an overpass - care to
tell us?

>
>Rediculous.
Yes, you are!
>
>I have a friend that broke a window on a house while golfing, and he paid
>for it... I thought he was nuts.
He must be nuts for having a friend like you.
>
>If I were you though, it would be worth asking if it happened. Obviously
>there are Good Samaritans that will pay up.
Never asked anyone to pay up as I never have had any damage. Doubt
you would have the money anyhow!
>
>I'd tell you to take a flying fucking leap into a load of horse dung.
NAH! I wouldn't want to leap into your kitchen.

>
>Houses like yours fuck up my game by forcing me to worry about them.
Something tells me that your game is fucked up just by being yours!

You wouldn't have to worry about my house because my course has a
requirement that your IQ has to be above par for the course (72) - so
they wouldn't even let you play!