24 Feb 2006 18:55:19
Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

It just boggles my mind when those people are preparing competition for
figure skating/ice dancing competition in the winter Olympics. They
spent so much time making perfect practices, but they or their trainer
just simply do not understand that in order to get attention from the
judges and the audiences, they have to be able to relate to them.
Importantly, their trainers should understand that their selected type
of musical composition make a huge deal in helping their performance
and the competitors' feelings. The captive audiences and judges can
relate better if they use favourite kind of songs, tunes and music.
Most of them are rubbish music, in which people cannot relate and
difficult to follow. Perhaps I am being very bias, and I realize that
everyone also have different taste of music. But I cannot help to
realize how good the audiences feel when they are using "beautiful"
music, such as the theme of Romeo and Juliet, theme from "ghost", etc.
Why on earth that these trainers do not understand about this concept?
I recall the ice dancing couple from England a couple years ago ( I
forgot their names), and they hired a special and a whole orchestra to
prepare for their music for competition.
Sorry if I offend anyone who have different taste of music. But some of
the music that they use are just simply rubbish, no feeling, and they
keep changing tunes without somekind of transition music. Use music
from famous movie themes, favourite songs or oldies, and people will
clap their hands and appreciate the perfomance very quickly. This will
in turn change the mood of the skater and make them more enthusiastic
in their performance.
Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
use popular tune songs, because of copyright requirements?, so that
they have to choose the never heard tunes and songs that are awful to
the ear, and make you want to turn off the TV!
Thanks for discussion



25 Feb 2006 03:38:25
Fred Dehl
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

aniramca@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1140836119.517256.146340@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
> use popular tune songs, because of copyright requirements?

I don't know what the procedures are for using music in the Olympics, but
Johnny Weir used Frank Sinatra's "My Way" during his exhibition. The
Sinatra estate is VERY protective of Frank's recordings, so either the
estate gave Johnny permission to use it, or Italy doesn't enforce
copyright as stringently as the US :-).


25 Feb 2006 01:01:21
No
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

I thought the music was pretty poor in every event. Almost an afterthought?

I guess since they cant carry gongs and flutes and hand bangers.... well
they
get the usic they can find or that means something to them and if its the
latter
well then, I have to wonder about this word "artist" ? The skate has become

mechanics. Robots could do it! Ching-a-ling-a-ling ling. Bang Bang.



aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:

> It just boggles my mind when those people are preparing competition for
> figure skating/ice dancing competition in the winter Olympics. They
> spent so much time making perfect practices, but they or their trainer
> just simply do not understand that in order to get attention from the
> judges and the audiences, they have to be able to relate to them.
> Importantly, their trainers should understand that their selected type
> of musical composition make a huge deal in helping their performance
> and the competitors' feelings. The captive audiences and judges can
> relate better if they use favourite kind of songs, tunes and music.
> Most of them are rubbish music, in which people cannot relate and
> difficult to follow. Perhaps I am being very bias, and I realize that
> everyone also have different taste of music. But I cannot help to
> realize how good the audiences feel when they are using "beautiful"
> music, such as the theme of Romeo and Juliet, theme from "ghost", etc.
> Why on earth that these trainers do not understand about this concept?
> I recall the ice dancing couple from England a couple years ago ( I
> forgot their names), and they hired a special and a whole orchestra to
> prepare for their music for competition.
> Sorry if I offend anyone who have different taste of music. But some of
> the music that they use are just simply rubbish, no feeling, and they
> keep changing tunes without somekind of transition music. Use music
> from famous movie themes, favourite songs or oldies, and people will
> clap their hands and appreciate the perfomance very quickly. This will
> in turn change the mood of the skater and make them more enthusiastic
> in their performance.
> Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
> use popular tune songs, because of copyright requirements?, so that
> they have to choose the never heard tunes and songs that are awful to
> the ear, and make you want to turn off the TV!
> Thanks for discussion



25 Feb 2006 00:33:17
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
long program?

I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
know?



25 Feb 2006 12:39:56
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 25 Feb 2006:

>What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
>long program?
>
>I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
>know?
>
Ach, I wish you hadn't asked, because it's going to bug me now, and I
agree with you! I loved it, too.

But going back to the original question, I think we probably lose out by
watching it on television, rather than being there. I know that my
coach expects and requires his pupils (including me) to skate "out" - we
are not skating out there for ourselves, we are performing for the
judges and the audience. We must look up and smile, we must exaggerate
every gesture - "You can't be _too_ exaggerated!" (Mind you, I got into
trouble last time I did solo dance - my friends complained that I smiled
at the judges but not at them - hey, how long can you hold a grin???).
And our this year's music has been chosen because it's memorable (and we
can skate to it) - we were told that because it's us, we'll be better
with memorable music that people will enjoy than some random thing
nobody except us likes!

I'm sure the Olympic skaters do the same, but it probably is flattened
out on telly. By their level, they will have outgrown the propensity to
(a) treat the music as background Musak (dancers can't do that anyway,
so it seldom applies to them) and (b) go out there with body language
that says "Please don't notice me, I won't be long!"

All of us need to go out there with body-language that says "Hey, look,
this is me - you're so going to have fun watching me!" It's something
that I think American skaters are taught more than we British skaters
are, but we all need to learn it!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


25 Feb 2006 14:56:15
Ancalime
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


<foaatfm@yahoo.com > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1140856397.103776.194750@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
> long program?
>
> I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
> know?
>

Shizuka Arakawa used "Tosca" from Giacomo Puccini in her exhibition program.

Ancalime



25 Feb 2006 05:58:26
Goro
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> It just boggles my mind when those people are preparing competition for
> figure skating/ice dancing competition in the winter Olympics. They
> spent so much time making perfect practices, but they or their trainer
> just simply do not understand that in order to get attention from the
> judges and the audiences, they have to be able to relate to them.
> Importantly, their trainers should understand that their selected type
> of musical composition make a huge deal in helping their performance
> and the competitors' feelings. The captive audiences and judges can
> relate better if they use favourite kind of songs, tunes and music.
> Most of them are rubbish music, in which people cannot relate and
> difficult to follow. Perhaps I am being very bias, and I realize that
> everyone also have different taste of music. But I cannot help to
> realize how good the audiences feel when they are using "beautiful"
> music, such as the theme of Romeo and Juliet, theme from "ghost", etc.
> Why on earth that these trainers do not understand about this concept?
> I recall the ice dancing couple from England a couple years ago ( I
> forgot their names), and they hired a special and a whole orchestra to
> prepare for their music for competition.
> Sorry if I offend anyone who have different taste of music. But some of
> the music that they use are just simply rubbish, no feeling, and they
> keep changing tunes without somekind of transition music. Use music
> from famous movie themes, favourite songs or oldies, and people will
> clap their hands and appreciate the perfomance very quickly. This will
> in turn change the mood of the skater and make them more enthusiastic
> in their performance.
> Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
> use popular tune songs, because of copyright requirements?, so that
> they have to choose the never heard tunes and songs that are awful to
> the ear, and make you want to turn off the TV!
> Thanks for discussion

why stop there? Why not use N-Sync or Brit?

-goro-



25 Feb 2006 07:05:51
houself12@gmail.com
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

The absolute worst music in this whole competiton (that I saw) was
Joannie Rochette's short program music. I don't mind Madonna per se,
but that screeching violin crap grated on my last nerve (and I only
have one left). That would have gotten a deduction for something right
there. Ugh. My dh thinks it would be better if they just piped the
music straight into the broadcast sound rather than miking it.

Nyoka



25 Feb 2006 07:20:17
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

> What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
> long program?
>
> I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
> know?

She skated to music based on Puccini's Turandot.



25 Feb 2006 07:35:09
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

> She skated to music based on Puccini's Turandot.

Should have added that Pavarotti sang form Turandot in the opening
ceremony. The climax of the aria is "vincero," Italian for "I will win".



25 Feb 2006 11:45:01
Irulan
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music



<foaatfm@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140856397.103776.194750@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
> long program?
>
> I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
> know?

The music was from Puccini's opera TURANDOT.


--

Irulan
from the stars we come
to the stars we return
from now until the end of time




25 Feb 2006 12:00:06
Shillelagh
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


<salmoneous@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1140881709.367247.244810@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> > She skated to music based on Puccini's Turandot.
>
> Should have added that Pavarotti sang form Turandot in the opening
> ceremony. The climax of the aria is "vincero," Italian for "I will win".

Name of the aria is Nessun Dorma

S.




25 Feb 2006 10:56:19
Gonna Skate
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote:
> This is one of the reasons that the Olympic judging is such a joke. They
> have done so much in recent years to hype the 'artistry' and have turned the
> competition into a bunch of USA biased crap. 'Smile' at all times? That
> may be fine for the faking popularity of western society, but not every
> culture believes that fake smiling is graceful, dignified, or proper.

An interesting point, really. Did the USA invent smiling? What other
cultures value smiles? What are the cultures that don't think smiling
is proper? How many of them participate in international figure
skating? What would be the proper way of ladies of those cultures to
perform for a large audience? How should such culture clashes be
resolved for international competitions where performance is a judged
criteria?



25 Feb 2006 19:51:52
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 25 Feb 2006:

>
>Mrs Redboots wrote:
>>We must look up and smile, we must exaggerate
>>every gesture - "You can't be _too_ exaggerated!" (Mind you, I got into
>>trouble last time I did solo dance - my friends complained that I smiled
>>at the judges but not at them - hey, how long can you hold a grin???).
>
>This is one of the reasons that the Olympic judging is such a joke. They
>have done so much in recent years to hype the 'artistry' and have turned the
>competition into a bunch of USA biased crap. 'Smile' at all times? That
>may be fine for the faking popularity of western society, but not every
>culture believes that fake smiling is graceful, dignified, or proper.

True, but that is not just USA. And whether you smile or don't, you
still need to _sell_ your programme to the judges and the audience.

> It is
>very sad that some of these women get lower scores because they fail to
>conform to the cultural bias of the judges (yeah, I know, the judges come
>from around the world...but most of them spend the majority of the year in
>the USA and most of the Olympic funding for these judges and events comes
>from USA money sources).
>
That's not actually the case - most of the judges are _extremely_ busy
judging and testing in their own countries. I have tested - and passed
- a Level 1 Bronze (the most basic test in this country) test in front
of a _very_ senior judge indeed! And other judges go from a national
championship one day to a club's festival the next, from the best in
their country to beginners doing their first-ever baby competitions.

Judges are not paid, other than expenses. They are _very_
highly-trained, and have (in this country at any rate) to have been
extremely accomplished skaters themselves before they're even allowed to
think about training.

>>And our this year's music has been chosen because it's memorable (and we
>>can skate to it)
>
>I think it sucks when someone from Japan or Europe takes the ice and music
>from the USA is playing.

Why? Are we not allowed to enjoy American music - as, indeed, many
Americans enjoy European music (I can't speak to Japanese music!).

>I'd much rather see them skating to music
>culturally significant to their country than having to suck up to the USA
>bias.

It's not sucking up - you dance to music you love enough to be able to
bear hearing zillions and zillions of times!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


25 Feb 2006 11:57:26
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

I don't know what singer was singing it.
I know it better by Josh Groban. Was it "you lift me up"? or
Might have been another one of his. I've forgotten already.



25 Feb 2006 12:00:53
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

I don't know about the judges, but all night I kept hearing "trains in
New Jersey, butskates for (somewhere else)." does anyone train in
the home country?

I sure hope the little girl from Turkey gets to skate professionally.
What sacrifices her parents made. Not that all the skater's parents
didn't sacrifice, but those folks gave up everything. Welcome to
Western Capitalism



25 Feb 2006 19:55:25
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

houself12@gmail.com wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat,
25 Feb 2006:

>The absolute worst music in this whole competiton (that I saw) was
>Joannie Rochette's short program music. I don't mind Madonna per se,
>but that screeching violin crap grated on my last nerve (and I only
>have one left). That would have gotten a deduction for something right
>there. Ugh. My dh thinks it would be better if they just piped the
>music straight into the broadcast sound rather than miking it.
>
Er - if it was piped into the broadcast sound, the skater wouldn't be
able to hear it. The idea is to interpret the music, which you couldn't
do unless the music was played loudly enough that the skater could hear
it.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


25 Feb 2006 20:18:32
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 25 Feb 2006:

>I don't know about the judges, but all night I kept hearing "trains in
>New Jersey, butskates for (somewhere else)." does anyone train in
>the home country?
>
A lot of them do, but one of the main reasons to go to the USA is to
train alongside others who are either at your level or slightly better
than you. When you are the best in your country, you haven't anybody to
look up to and to show you by example what you're aiming for.

Also, the USA can often offer more ice time - many European and other
rinks close in the summer, although that's not true here in the UK.

>I sure hope the little girl from Turkey gets to skate professionally.
>What sacrifices her parents made. Not that all the skater's parents
>didn't sacrifice, but those folks gave up everything. Welcome to
>Western Capitalism
>
She did very well, didn't she?
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


25 Feb 2006 16:18:37
Rick
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

ladysbytes@yahoo.com wrote in message
<1140897446.488105.323970@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com >...
> I don't know what singer was singing it.
>I know it better by Josh Groban. Was it "you lift me up"? or
>Might have been another one of his. I've forgotten already.

It was the latest and greatest Opera Prodigy/Marketing Phenom - Haley or
somebody from New Zealand or somewhere like that, I think. She actually has
a better voice than Charlotte Church. I do like that arrangement, and
vaguely remember hearing another skater use it within the last year or so.
Didn't Michelle use the Groban version recently? Arakawa's choreography was
a lot like what I think Michelle would do with that music.

- Rick




25 Feb 2006 14:42:25
Amy
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

>I don't know about the judges, but all night I kept hearing "trains in
>New Jersey, butskates for (somewhere else)." does anyone train in
>the home country?

There are two possibilities for this scenario. Some skaters from other
countries come to the US because a lot of the best coaches (not judges,
COACHES, Lyle Walsh!) are located in the US. And they're not all
necessarily American coaches, they just coach in the US because they
can earn more money/get more students here. (Examples: John Nicks,
Carlo Fassi, Tatiana Tarasova, Tamara Moskvina-- although she's moved
back to Russia I believe, Nikolai Morozov, etc.) Yagudin trained in
Connecticut with a Russian coach and a Russian choreographer; the only
non-Russian thing about his skating was where he trained. And it works
both ways: Kristi Yamaguchi lived and trained in Alberta leading up to
the 92 Olympics, but she represented the US, not Canada!

The other situation leading to "trains in NJ, skates for..." is when
Americans of whatever descent decide to skate for the ancestral
country. New ISU rules do require them to sit out a year and spend
that year in residence of the other country, but then I suppose they
could return to the US and train. In the past, even this wasn't
required. Skaters do this usually if there's no way they could make
the US World or Olympic team but are among the top 24-30 in the world
and thus have a shot at earning the ancestral country an Olympic berth,
which they then take. Examples of American skaters taking advantage of
liberal citizenship/residency requirements in an ancestral country
include Trifun Zovanovich (Yugoslavia), Sydne Vogel (Germany), and Lily
Lee (South Korea). Lee represented Korea at the 94 Olympics while
living in Colorado and training with Kathy Casey.

-Amy



26 Feb 2006 12:33:34
Kong King
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


<ladysbytes@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140897446.488105.323970@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> I don't know what singer was singing it.
> I know it better by Josh Groban. Was it "you lift me up"? or
> Might have been another one of his. I've forgotten already.
>

You Raise Me Up




26 Feb 2006 12:34:13
Kong King
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com > wrote in message
news:dfudncIqvoRWSp3ZRVn-qg@giganews.com...
> ladysbytes@yahoo.com wrote in message
> <1140897446.488105.323970@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>...
>> I don't know what singer was singing it.
>>I know it better by Josh Groban. Was it "you lift me up"? or
>>Might have been another one of his. I've forgotten already.
>
> It was the latest and greatest Opera Prodigy/Marketing Phenom - Haley or
> somebody from New Zealand or somewhere like that, I think. She actually
> has
> a better voice than Charlotte Church. I do like that arrangement, and
> vaguely remember hearing another skater use it within the last year or so.
> Didn't Michelle use the Groban version recently? Arakawa's choreography
> was
> a lot like what I think Michelle would do with that music.
>

Haley Westenra from New Zealand




25 Feb 2006 19:02:49
Ed Stasiak
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

> Obveeus wrote
>
> I think it sucks when someone from Japan or Europe takes the ice and
> music from the USA is playing. I'd much rather see them skating to
> music culturally significant to their country than having to suck up to
> the USA bias.

Ack! The last thing I'd want to listen to as a judge, fan
or especially a skater are the screeches, wails, bongs
and clicks of traditional Asian music.



25 Feb 2006 21:48:32
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

>Nessun Dorma

>Puccini's Turandot


Thanks for the info.

I just went and listened to different versions at BarnesandNoble.com.

Anyone here recommend a specific version of this?

I guess the most popular is Pavarotti. I listened to Sarah Brightman
sing it -- kind of nice hearing a female voice but she's a little too
high for my taste.



26 Feb 2006 12:39:13
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sun, 26 Feb 2006:

>
>Mrs Redboots wrote:
>>Judges are not paid, other than expenses.
>
>Is that like saying that the athletes aren't paid?

No, it's not. Judges are not athletes. Athletes may or may not be paid
- these days, thankfully, eligible skaters may, and do, earn money from
teaching and from exhibition skating - but judges ARE NOT PAID. They do
receive expenses, and usually a "Thank you" from the club who hosted the
competition (a bottle of wine or some chocolates), but that is all.

> During one of the nights
>of the Olympics they were talking about some female competitor with two
>kids. They commented that the family wanted to spend time together so the
>husband became her couch...now all four of them can go on the road to all
>the different competitions. I wonder how they afford to live with four
>mouths to feed and no income? ;-) I never did like all those 'western
>bias' claims against communist countries having 'paid athletes' when our own
>athletes are 'paid' much more by sponsors and donations and such (sources of
>'income' that aren't/weren't available in communist countries.
>
I think you're confusing judges and skaters here. Judges have all been
skaters, but are seldom eligible skaters these days. Some are - I do
know a couple who are still competing at Adult Masters level - but the
vast majority are either retired, or have a day job. They get up at
05:00 to go and take tests before they go to work, with no payment
whatsoever.

>>>I think it sucks when someone from Japan or Europe takes the ice and music
>>>from the USA is playing.
>>
>>Why? Are we not allowed to enjoy American music
>
>Sure, they are allowed to enjoy whatever music they want. However, when the
>music is chosen so that it will fit the USA audience (or so it will fit the
>host regions music) I think it does a disservice. And yes, I do think the
>choice of music can do a lot to raise a skaters 'artistic' scores.
>
Indeed it can, because if you choose music that you can't skate to, you
will be marked down - nothing, for instance, looks worse than slow
skaters skating to slow music.... dreary drone.....

>>It's not sucking up - you dance to music you love enough to be able to
>>bear hearing zillions and zillions of times!
>
>Nope...they dance to music that will identify quickly and pleasurably with
>the audinece and judges.
>
Excuse me, but are you a skater? I am, and I can assure that while
that is _one_ of the factors involved in the choice of music, it is very
far from the only one.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


26 Feb 2006 11:43:32
Lyle Walsh
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Sorry Amy, I didn't clip that quote propery, I mean no disrespect to the
judges and I wasn't agreeing with Obveeus about that part. IMHO the
evolution of judging worldwide has made just as big a contribution to the
advancement of skating as any other facet of the sport.

The point I was trying to make was that there is a homogenization of
cultures worldwide with all of our mass communication. In many ways this is
wonderful but I also appreciate some of the unique cultural differences that
make other peoples' dance, music and other art just as interesting and fun
to try as their food. You have to be very strong to put that out on the
International stage and buck the prevailing trends. I hope that with the
success of the Japanese and Chinese skaters the rest of the world will now
be gifted with new and unusual programs of uniquely Asian character.

Sorry if this sounds more like a fan post
Lyle
(who hates those slack-jawed open mouth smiles of some of our best skaters.)




26 Feb 2006 19:12:49
Ancalime
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


<foaatfm@yahoo.com > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1140932912.729468.283180@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >Nessun Dorma
>
> >Puccini's Turandot
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I just went and listened to different versions at BarnesandNoble.com.
>
> Anyone here recommend a specific version of this?
>
> I guess the most popular is Pavarotti. I listened to Sarah Brightman
> sing it -- kind of nice hearing a female voice but she's a little too
> high for my taste.

Sorry that I said "Tosca" instead of "Turandot";-((((

Well, as Nessun Dorma is a tenor voice aria.......the best would be to go for an
older recording of Pavarotti because Pavarotti is a genius in singing this
Belcanto stuff when he was younger!

Don't take Sarah Brightman please..she is so crap LOL....

Ancalime



26 Feb 2006 17:54:18
Lyle Walsh
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

I heard a "Three Tenors" version a couple of years ago that I liked. Also
liked Pavarotti, has Bocelli done this?
Lyle


<foaatfm@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1140932912.729468.283180@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >Nessun Dorma
>
>>Puccini's Turandot
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I just went and listened to different versions at BarnesandNoble.com.
>
> Anyone here recommend a specific version of this?
>
> I guess the most popular is Pavarotti. I listened to Sarah Brightman
> sing it -- kind of nice hearing a female voice but she's a little too
> high for my taste.
>




26 Feb 2006 17:15:36
Shillelagh
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


"Lyle Walsh" <walshlgNOSPAM@knologyNOSPAM.net > wrote in message
news:d161b$44023199$18d6b322$11459@KNOLOGY.NET...
> I heard a "Three Tenors" version a couple of years ago that I liked.
Also
> liked Pavarotti, has Bocelli done this?
> Lyle

Yes.





26 Feb 2006 17:03:17
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

> I hope that with the
> success of the Japanese and Chinese skaters the rest of the world will now
> be gifted with new and unusual programs of uniquely Asian character.

Just to be clear, the gold medalist from JAPAN skated to a piece of
music by a woman from SINGAPORE who grew up with THAI culture, but
wanted to explore her CHINESE ethnicity, so she wrote a pices of music
based on an ITALIAN opera set in Peiking.

It's a wonderful cross-cultural world we live in.



27 Feb 2006 02:41:47
Obveeus
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Ed Stasiak wrote:
>Ack! The last thing I'd want to listen to as a judge, fan
>or especially a skater are the screeches, wails, bongs
>and clicks of traditional Asian music.

Well, I'd rather hear that than some bland Celine Dion musak.




27 Feb 2006 13:37:14
Lionel F. Stevenson
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Try Aretha Franklin!!!!
-- Lionel

> From: foaatfm@yahoo.com
> Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Newsgroups:
> rec.sport.skating.ice.figure,rec.sport.olympics,rec.arts.tv,rec.sport.skating.
> ice.recreational
> Date: 25 Feb 2006 21:48:32 -0800
> Subject: Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music
>
>> Nessun Dorma
>
>> Puccini's Turandot
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I just went and listened to different versions at BarnesandNoble.com.
>
> Anyone here recommend a specific version of this?
>
> I guess the most popular is Pavarotti. I listened to Sarah Brightman
> sing it -- kind of nice hearing a female voice but she's a little too
> high for my taste.
>



27 Feb 2006 15:24:11
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb 2006:

>I know someone that was an Olympic judge (not skating). He 'owed his
>livelyhood' to teaching...teaching people to do the same event in which he
>judged.

Which is not allowed in figure skating - you can either be a qualified
coach or a qualified judge, but not both (although they do go to the
same seminars, and some judges will give critiques to promising skaters,
saying what they liked and didn't like about their programme, and where
the skaters would have lost marks - things that coaches might have
missed).

> He was well aware that his income would be nowhere near as high if
>'Olympic judge' wasn't on his teaching resume. He was also paid 'only
>expenses'...but that allowed him to travel internationally, see the world,
>stay in nice hotels, etc... Being a judge is not a 'thankless job' by any
>means.
>
All the same, you get to go the Olympics once every four years if you're
a _very_ highly-qualified judge. For most judges, and even for
Olympic-level judges, 99% of the time is spent watching small children -
or overweight adults - doing very basic skating rather badly.

>You're missing the point. If you pick a fantastic piece of music that no
>one has ever heard before (but goes perfectly with your routine) you won't
>do nearly as well as if you pick a good piece of music that the judges and
>audience have heard before (and goes well with your routine). Thus, the
>music itself effects the scores, not the actual skating and not the
>'artistic' choreography.

What, exactly, causes you to say this? Do give detailed examples,
please.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


27 Feb 2006 16:27:25
Gregg Cattanach
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Amy wrote:
Examples of American skaters taking
> advantage of liberal citizenship/residency requirements in an
> ancestral country include Trifun Zovanovich (Yugoslavia),

Yugoslavia isn't a country any more. Serbia and Montenegro, perhaps?

--
Gregg C.




27 Feb 2006 17:13:44
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

karl wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb 2006:

>I thought it had been conclusively demonstrated at the Salt Lake City
>Olympics that judging is based solely on the deals made by judges for their
>respective nations. Neither skating nor music matters a whit.
>
That is why we now have a very different judging system. Not perfect -
what system that employs human beings can be? - but a very great deal
better than the former system, and one that skaters themselves find a
great deal more helpful.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


27 Feb 2006 17:12:49
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb 2006:

>
>Mrs Redboots wrote:
>>Obveeus wrote:
>>>Thus, the music itself effects the scores, not the actual skating
>>>and not the 'artistic' choreography.
>>
>>What, exactly, causes you to say this? Do give detailed examples,
>>please.
>
>Examples? Since what music is more pleasureable to the judges is a
>subjective belief and since which skating routine is more 'artistic' is a
>subjective belief, asking for examples is silly.
>
No, you made an unsubstantiated claim that has not proved true in my
experience - and you then call me "silly" for asking for proof.

>If you wish to believe that the enjoyment of the music by the judges does
>not effect the scores, that is your choice, but you are wrong.

How do you know? Which skaters are you thinking of? Which performance?

>If you wish to believe that the crowd reaction does not effect the scores,
>that is your choice, but you are wrong.

Hmph - I only wish that _were_ true! Alas, in my experience, it's very
far from true - the crowd loves it and the judges give me 1.5!

>If you wish to believe that the flag the skater is skating under does not
>effect the scores, that is your choice, but you are wrong.

How can it, when at the highest levels the judging is anonymous, and two
or three of the scores are randomly dropped, plus the highest and lowest
of those remaining? And what has that to do with a skater's choice of
music, which is the issue under discussion?

>If you wish to believe that the judge's knowledge of where a skater has
>ranked in the past does not effect the scores, that is your choice, but you
>are wrong.

This may be true, but as the older judges retire and new judges come
into the sport who have trained solely under the new judging system,
this will be less apparent. However, you do have to remember that
judges are human, and with any sport that has human judges, 100%
objectivity cannot be guaranteed. Gymnastics suffers from the same
thing.

And what has this to do with a skater's choice of music, which is the
issue under discussion?

>If you wish to believe that Sasha Cohen fell twice during her routine but
>deserved the silver medal, that is your choice, but you are wrong...and even
>Sasha Cohen thinks you are wrong.
>
The marks she got, for what she did, put her in 2nd place. Maybe the
programme component scores were higher than another skater might have
got, but the technical element scores are no longer subjective.

And what has this to do with a skater's choice of music, which is the
issue under discussion?

>...and since it is all subjective, there is nothing more to be said.

That would have been true in Salt Lake City, but it must have escaped
your notice that skating is now judged very differently at the highest
levels.

And what has this to do with a skater's choice of music, which is the
issue under discussion?

By the way, the word you are searching for is "affect", not "effect".
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


27 Feb 2006 12:53:20
Chelsea Christenson
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

"Lionel F. Stevenson" <sumer@cameraart.ca > wrote in message
news:C02878CA.F68A%sumer@cameraart.ca...
> Try Aretha Franklin!!!!

No, don't. She's a marvelous singer, but she hasn't the range to handle the
ending. (I thoroughly enjoyed her Grammy performance up to that point,
though.) Your best bet is Pavarotti, sometime in the 80s or 90s.




27 Feb 2006 10:55:47
grievousangel190
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Johnny Weir also used "My Way" in St. Louis for the 2006 US Nationals
exhibition. I don't know the procedures, either. But at sanctioned
events, I'd be suprised if the sanctioning body allowed performances
that could get them dragged into court as a party to the violation.
Copyright violation is as common as dirt, but not at high-publicity
national or interventional events run by a well trained bureaucracy ;)

Susan



27 Feb 2006 11:10:45
Nancy1
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Gonna Skate wrote:
> Obveeus wrote:
> > This is one of the reasons that the Olympic judging is such a joke. They
> > have done so much in recent years to hype the 'artistry' and have turned the
> > competition into a bunch of USA biased crap. 'Smile' at all times? That
> > may be fine for the faking popularity of western society, but not every
> > culture believes that fake smiling is graceful, dignified, or proper.
>
> An interesting point, really. Did the USA invent smiling? What other
> cultures value smiles? What are the cultures that don't think smiling
> is proper? How many of them participate in international figure
> skating? What would be the proper way of ladies of those cultures to
> perform for a large audience? How should such culture clashes be
> resolved for international competitions where performance is a judged
> criteria?

Smiling all the time is not the rule, by any means. That "cloud" piece
that Kwan won a medal with a while ago was lyrical and pensive, not
requiring smiles. (BTW, it was Yuka Sato that skated to the
"butterfly" piece, wasn't it?)

N.



27 Feb 2006 11:11:34
Nancy1
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Fred Dehl wrote:
> aniramca@yahoo.com wrote in
> news:1140836119.517256.146340@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
> > use popular tune songs, because of copyright requirements?
>
> I don't know what the procedures are for using music in the Olympics, but
> Johnny Weir used Frank Sinatra's "My Way" during his exhibition. The
> Sinatra estate is VERY protective of Frank's recordings, so either the
> estate gave Johnny permission to use it, or Italy doesn't enforce
> copyright as stringently as the US :-).

They must have permission and in most cases, get it, without having to
pay fees. Especially for something like amateur skating competitions.

N.



27 Feb 2006 11:15:33
Nancy1
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Obveeus wrote:
If you wish to believe that Sasha Cohen fell twice during her routine
but
> deserved the silver medal, that is your choice, but you are wrong...and even
> Sasha Cohen thinks you are wrong.
>
Nitpicking here, but she didn't fall twice. She fell once, and put her
hands on the ice on another jump. That isn't a fall, and wasn't scored
as one.

Since you have a problem with her medal, how do you feel about the
Chinese pair who fell, stopped the music, decided they could go on, and
went on, and then got a silver medal?

N.



27 Feb 2006 11:17:09
Nancy1
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Mrs Redboots wrote:
> wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 25 Feb 2006:
>
> >What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
> >long program?
> >
> >I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
> >know?
> >
> Ach, I wish you hadn't asked, because it's going to bug me now, and I
> agree with you! I loved it, too.

I'm sick of that piece - every single skater has used it in some
competition or another in the past year, I swear. It's an opera tune,
but I can't remember what.

N.



27 Feb 2006 19:25:33
Fred Dehl
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

"Nancy1" <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu > wrote in
news:1141067733.267176.101500@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Since you have a problem with her medal, how do you feel about the
> Chinese pair who fell, stopped the music, decided they could go on, and
> went on, and then got a silver medal?

It's like the NBA slam-dunk contest, where they let the eventual winner
attempt his final dunk FOURTEEN times in the final round: the rules
apparently permit it, but it's something that should be reviewed the next
time the appropriate rulesmaking board meets.

Anyone know why the rules permit the stop'n'start that the Chinese couple
took advantage of? Is it unique to pairs? Seems like any competitor who
took a splat could stop the music, regather his composure, and restart, if
the rules allow it.


27 Feb 2006 19:18:13
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb 2006:

>
>Mrs Redboots wrote:
>>The marks she got, for what she did, put her in 2nd place. Maybe the
>>programme component scores were higher than another skater might have
>>got, but the technical element scores are no longer subjective.
>
>The technical element is still subjective...judges 'decide' if the full
>rotation was completed or not...lots of leeway still exists. Then, there is
>the 'artistic' component...
>
Correction: The judges don't decide, the technical specialist does. All
the judges can do is mark the element below, at, or above standard. A
skater might have entered, on their PCS, that they planned to do a loop
jump, a flip jump and a lutz, but if what the technical specialist sees
is 3 loop jumps (this really happened to a friend of mine!), that is
what will be marked.

>>And what has this to do with a skater's choice of music, which is the
>>issue under discussion?
>
>Well, since you can't see that the audience, the flag, the past,
>etc...affect the scores, it all goes to the same common theme as the music:
>namely, you think the judging exists in a utopian vacuum and that is simply
>not the case.
>
No, but you seem to be denying that we have a new system since last time
which, while not perfect, is preferable. As the older judges retire, I
think you'll see some improvements. Certainly skaters I know - even, or
perhaps especially at the lower levels - who have been judged according
to this system find it preferable.

However, you appear not to know anything about the sport, so I feel I am
wasting my time discussing it with you, and will take no further part in
any debate.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


27 Feb 2006 19:34:53
Fred Dehl
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

"Nancy1" <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu > wrote in
news:1141067829.555305.109650@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

>
> Mrs Redboots wrote:
>> wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 25 Feb 2006:
>>
>> >What did the female Gold winner use in the actual competition for her
>> >long program?
>> >
>> >I love it and know it's famous - but I just can't remember it. Anyone
>> >know?
>> >
>> Ach, I wish you hadn't asked, because it's going to bug me now, and I
>> agree with you! I loved it, too.
>
> I'm sick of that piece - every single skater has used it in some
> competition or another in the past year, I swear. It's an opera tune,
> but I can't remember what.

"Nessun Dorma" ("Noone is sleeping") from Turandot by Puccini. It's the
aria Pavarotti sang in the opening ceremony.


27 Feb 2006 19:38:54
Fred Dehl
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Mrs Redboots <Annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote in
news:SjOfT4I1B1AEFwag@amsmyth.demon.co.uk:

> No, but you seem to be denying that we have a new system since last time
> which, while not perfect, is preferable. As the older judges retire, I
> think you'll see some improvements. Certainly skaters I know - even, or
> perhaps especially at the lower levels - who have been judged according
> to this system find it preferable.

The new system certainly makes for a more well-rounded program with more
"stuff" in it... nbcolympics.com has the video from S. Hughes' SLC free,
and it's almost all jumps plus a couple of spirals and a combo spin.


27 Feb 2006 11:39:45
Nancy1
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> I recall the ice dancing couple from England a couple years ago ( I
> forgot their names), and they hired a special and a whole orchestra to

Torvill and Dean.

> Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to

You wouldn't be able to find that word in the dictionary, with that
spelling ;-) It's "exhorbitant."

N.



27 Feb 2006 20:50:22
Gregg Cattanach
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Fred Dehl wrote:
>
> Anyone know why the rules permit the stop'n'start that the Chinese
> couple took advantage of? Is it unique to pairs? Seems like any
> competitor who took a splat could stop the music, regather his
> composure, and restart, if the rules allow it.

They don't get to restart, just continue from where they left off. The only
debatable thing is whether they should be allowed to stop the music, not
whether they can continue to skate after a fall.

--
Gregg C.




27 Feb 2006 22:27:18
Obveeus
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


Nancy1 wrote:
>Nitpicking here, but she didn't fall twice. She fell once, and put her
>hands on the ice on another jump.

Fair enough, she put both hands flat on the ice in order to avoid falling.

>Since you have a problem with her medal, how do you feel about the
>Chinese pair who fell, stopped the music, decided they could go on, and
>went on, and then got a silver medal?

I don't think that the music should stop, once started. It wasn't as bad as
when whack-a-leg skater (what was that nutjobs name?) got to restart a
couple of Olympics ago, but I still think that once a routine is underway
they should be obligated to complete it as best as possible without
timeouts.




27 Feb 2006 21:40:59
Phoenix
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

In article <44036dcc_1@x-privat.org >, Obveeus@aol.com says...
>
> Mrs Redboots wrote:
> >Correction: The judges don't decide, the technical specialist does.
>
> Ok...but that doesn't change anything. The technical score is still
> subjective. Someone decides if a rotation was completed enough for it to
> count as a certain element.

AND they decide damn quickly.



>
> >All the judges can do is mark the element below, at, or above standard.
>
> Which is, of course, subjective.
>
> >No, but you seem to be denying that we have a new system since last time
> >which, while not perfect, is preferable.
>
> I have not in any way stated that the new system is not perferable to the
> old system. What I have said is that it is still subjective, so ultimately,
> it is fallable. I don't see any way around it since humans will always make
> biased decisions (whether they are aware of it or not).

Exactly. The new system is about building confidence in skating
competitions again, and keeping judges anonymous. However, it doesn't
add objectivity to the sport, only obscures the subjectivity of the
judging.

Otherwise, Zhang and Zhang would have been out of medal contention.

bel


>
>
>


27 Feb 2006 13:43:47
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

> It wasn't as bad as
> when whack-a-leg skater (what was that nutjobs name?)

Actually, I belive her legal name was changed to Ms Wack-a-leg Skater.
Go figure.



27 Feb 2006 17:23:22
Chelsea Christenson
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

"Nancy1" <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu > wrote in message
news:1141067445.477290.80350@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> (BTW, it was Yuka Sato that skated to the
> "butterfly" piece, wasn't it?)

Lu Chen (or Chen Lu, depending on where you are).




28 Feb 2006 11:43:04
Kong King
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


"Mrs Redboots" <Annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:SjOfT4I1B1AEFwag@amsmyth.demon.co.uk...
> Obveeus wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb 2006:
>
>
> However, you appear not to know anything about the sport, so I feel I am
> wasting my time discussing it with you, and will take no further part in
> any debate.
> --

You lose.




27 Feb 2006 23:53:38
Obveeus
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


salmoneous@aol.com wrote:
>Actually, I belive her legal name was changed to Ms Wack-a-leg Skater.
>Go figure.

Legally changed it when she started her boxing career, no doubt.




27 Feb 2006 15:51:41
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

They also skate to a lot of Broadway...I think I heard Les Miz this
year.



27 Feb 2006 19:56:58
Rick
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Chelsea Christenson wrote in message ...
>"Lionel F. Stevenson" <sumer@cameraart.ca> wrote in message
>news:C02878CA.F68A%sumer@cameraart.ca...
>> Try Aretha Franklin!!!!
>
>No, don't. She's a marvelous singer, but she hasn't the range to handle
the
>ending. (I thoroughly enjoyed her Grammy performance up to that point,
>though.) Your best bet is Pavarotti, sometime in the 80s or 90s.

That period was more like Petrenko's pro career. His peak was much earlier
than that. But people should at least avoid the blasphemous blechery like
Aretha Franklin, Sara Brightman, Andrea Bocelli, Charlotte Church,
VanessaMae, and probably a few others I'm forgetting because they should not
be remembered.

- Rick




27 Feb 2006 22:02:51
Lyle Walsh
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Wow, that is very cool! Please post the details, I'd be interested in
learning more.
Lyle


> Just to be clear, the gold medalist from JAPAN skated to a piece of
> music by a woman from SINGAPORE who grew up with THAI culture, but
> wanted to explore her CHINESE ethnicity, so she wrote a pices of music
> based on an ITALIAN opera set in Peiking.
>
> It's a wonderful cross-cultural world we live in.
>




28 Feb 2006 03:59:09
Little T
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:56:58 -0600, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com >
wrote:

>Chelsea Christenson wrote in message ...
>>"Lionel F. Stevenson" <sumer@cameraart.ca> wrote in message
>>news:C02878CA.F68A%sumer@cameraart.ca...
>>> Try Aretha Franklin!!!!
>>
>>No, don't. She's a marvelous singer, but she hasn't the range to handle
>the
>>ending. (I thoroughly enjoyed her Grammy performance up to that point,
>>though.) Your best bet is Pavarotti, sometime in the 80s or 90s.
>
>That period was more like Petrenko's pro career. His peak was much earlier
>than that. But people should at least avoid the blasphemous blechery like
>Aretha Franklin, Sara Brightman, Andrea Bocelli, Charlotte Church,
>VanessaMae, and probably a few others I'm forgetting because they should not
>be remembered.
>
>- Rick
>
>
How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman! She is marvelous, and
my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed at
her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church (I personally can't stand
her), and he loves Andrea Bocelli.

Having said all that, he does feel, as I do, that Luciano Pavarotti, even
not in his prime, puts them all away!

Toni


28 Feb 2006 00:17:47
Chelsea Christenson
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

"Little T" <allenclan@charter.net > wrote in message
news:4403c970.29173399@nntp.charter.net...
> How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman! She is marvelous, and
> my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed at
> her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church (I personally can't stand
> her), and he loves Andrea Bocelli.

A nice voice, even a marvelous voice, is not sufficient to make one an opera
singer. Technique counts.




28 Feb 2006 00:19:34
Rick
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Little T wrote in message <4403c970.29173399@nntp.charter.net >...
>On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:56:58 -0600, "Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Chelsea Christenson wrote in message ...
>>>"Lionel F. Stevenson" <sumer@cameraart.ca> wrote in message
>>>news:C02878CA.F68A%sumer@cameraart.ca...
>>>> Try Aretha Franklin!!!!
>>>
>>>No, don't. She's a marvelous singer, but she hasn't the range to handle
>>the
>>>ending. (I thoroughly enjoyed her Grammy performance up to that point,
>>>though.) Your best bet is Pavarotti, sometime in the 80s or 90s.
>>
>>That period was more like Petrenko's pro career. His peak was much earlier
>>than that. But people should at least avoid the blasphemous blechery like
>>Aretha Franklin, Sara Brightman, Andrea Bocelli, Charlotte Church,
>>VanessaMae, and probably a few others I'm forgetting because they should
not
>>be remembered.
>>
>>- Rick
>>
>>
>How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman!

I've heard her voice. And I've heard real opera singers. The former bears
only nominal resemblance to the latter.

>She is marvelous,

She's probably ok at what she does, but even that's a matter of taste.

>and my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed
at
>her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church

That's too bad.

>(I personally can't stand her),

That's a good thing. I will admit that her voice isn't that awful when she
sticks to cetain kinds of music, opera not being one of them.

>and he loves Andrea Bocelli.

That's too bad.

>Having said all that, he does feel, as I do, that Luciano Pavarotti, even
>not in his prime, puts them all away!

Ok, ya got me there! But Pavarotti pales in comparison to voices like
Callas, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Corelli, Berganza, Bergonzi, Gedda, Gobbi, et
cetera.

- Rick




28 Feb 2006 07:21:55
Little T
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:17:47 -0500, "Chelsea Christenson"
<nobody@nowhere.com > wrote:

>"Little T" <allenclan@charter.net> wrote in message
>news:4403c970.29173399@nntp.charter.net...
>> How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman! She is marvelous, and
>> my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed at
>> her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church (I personally can't stand
>> her), and he loves Andrea Bocelli.
>
>A nice voice, even a marvelous voice, is not sufficient to make one an opera
>singer. Technique counts.
>
>
I agree, but from what I have heard (and I love opera) Sara Brightman has
that in spades. IMHO

Toni


28 Feb 2006 07:27:16
Jeanne Douglas
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

In article <1141069185.340831.72330@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >,
"Nancy1" <nancy-dooley@uiowa.edu > wrote:

> aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I recall the ice dancing couple from England a couple years ago ( I
> > forgot their names), and they hired a special and a whole orchestra to
>
> Torvill and Dean.
>
> > Or,.... do they have to "pay" exoberrant amount of "ransom" money to
>
> You wouldn't be able to find that word in the dictionary, with that
> spelling ;-) It's "exhorbitant."

No, it's not.

--
JD

"...if you think the 'Star Wars' prequels are a disease, then
'Serenity' is the cure."


28 Feb 2006 08:09:58
PosterBoy
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music


"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com > wrote in message
news:aradnegdXZ0edp7ZRVn-ig@giganews.com...
> Ok, ya got me there! But Pavarotti pales in comparison to voices like
> Callas, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Corelli, Berganza, Bergonzi, Gedda, Gobbi, et
> cetera.
>
> - Rick

There ya go again, Rick!
Gigli.
Ya forgot Gigli.

Cheers.




28 Feb 2006 14:00:12
barbara
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Chelsea Christenson wrote:

> "Little T" <allenclan@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:4403c970.29173399@nntp.charter.net...
>
>>How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman! She is marvelous, and
>>my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed at
>>her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church (I personally can't stand
>>her), and he loves Andrea Bocelli.
>
>
> A nice voice, even a marvelous voice, is not sufficient to make one an opera
> singer. Technique counts.
>
>
As Sarah Brightman sings the higher notes, her voice gets thinner and
thinner and is not beautiful any more. The only reason she has done as
well as she has is because she married Andrew Lloyd Webber who gave her
the best roles even though she wasn't quite up to them. Her voice is
pretty when she doesn't go too high.


28 Feb 2006 16:27:26
Little T
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:00:12 GMT, barbara <bbarlou@earthlink.net > wrote:

>Chelsea Christenson wrote:
>
>> "Little T" <allenclan@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:4403c970.29173399@nntp.charter.net...
>>
>>>How can you possibly say that about Sara Brightman! She is marvelous, and
>>>my husband who is also a vocalist (not professionally) is quite amazed at
>>>her abilities. He also favors Charlotte Church (I personally can't stand
>>>her), and he loves Andrea Bocelli.
>>
>>
>> A nice voice, even a marvelous voice, is not sufficient to make one an opera
>> singer. Technique counts.
>>
>>
>As Sarah Brightman sings the higher notes, her voice gets thinner and
>thinner and is not beautiful any more. The only reason she has done as
>well as she has is because she married Andrew Lloyd Webber who gave her
>the best roles even though she wasn't quite up to them. Her voice is
>pretty when she doesn't go too high.

I can't agree with you there. I have had professionals tell me that her
voice is extremely well controlled up high.

Toni


28 Feb 2006 19:13:31
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

Fred Dehl wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb
2006:

>Anyone know why the rules permit the stop'n'start that the Chinese couple
>took advantage of? Is it unique to pairs? Seems like any competitor who
>took a splat could stop the music, regather his composure, and restart, if
>the rules allow it.

The rules, I think, say it is at the discretion of the referee - I've
seen skaters who were thought to have been "trying it on" disqualified,
whereas others, who obviously did need a short breather after a hard
fall, allowed to continue from where they left off.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
http://mrs_redboots.livejournal.com


28 Feb 2006 13:29:47
Rick
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

PosterBoy wrote in message ...
>
>"Rick" <pl1_alpha_geek@juNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
>news:aradnegdXZ0edp7ZRVn-ig@giganews.com...
>> Ok, ya got me there! But Pavarotti pales in comparison to voices like
>> Callas, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Corelli, Berganza, Bergonzi, Gedda, Gobbi, et
>> cetera.
>>
>> - Rick
>
> There ya go again, Rick!
> Gigli.
> Ya forgot Gigli.

And many others far too numerous to mention.

- Rick




28 Feb 2006 20:39:47
Catherine Rees Lay
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

In article <f9U80GMbDKBEFwi4@amsmyth.demon.co.uk >, Mrs Redboots
<Annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > writes
>Fred Dehl wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 27 Feb
>2006:
>
>>Anyone know why the rules permit the stop'n'start that the Chinese couple
>>took advantage of? Is it unique to pairs? Seems like any competitor who
>>took a splat could stop the music, regather his composure, and restart, if
>>the rules allow it.
>
>The rules, I think, say it is at the discretion of the referee - I've
>seen skaters who were thought to have been "trying it on" disqualified,
>whereas others, who obviously did need a short breather after a hard
>fall, allowed to continue from where they left off.

I presumed it was a safety thing - the last thing anyone wants is a pair
carrying on at all costs, where the girl (or even worse, the guy) is
concussed and their balance is shot. The brief pause gives a chance for
common sense to get a look in.

Catherine.
--
Catherine Rees Lay
To email me, use my first name in front of the "at".


04 Mar 2006 19:40:32
Re: Ice skating competition - winter Olympics - background music

As someone else mentioned, the judges decide if the injury warrants a
pause.
But, "regaining composure" wouldn't be a valid reason to pause.
Injury, on the other hand, is, because continuing to put weight and
pressure on an injured limb can exacerbate the damage and cause lasting
harm.
Zhang Dan fell so hard on her knee that she could barely stand on her
own. She needed a doctor's approval to keep skating, because if the
injury was judged a fracture, there is no way she could have safely
continued.
She wasn't getting a "breather", she was getting a medical evaluation.
This doesn't give an advantage over people who fall(without serious
injury) and then continue(without serious pain).

Also, Zhang fell while attempting a throw quad salchow, a jump which,
if she'd landed it, would have made her the first to do so ever, in
competition. Although the commentator said she'd turned four times
before falling--which counts in points--the judges actually treated it
as if she'd fallen on a triple instead of a quad. This ruling was NOT
in their favor, and didn't help them get the silver. (You can see the
points details for each jump on NBC's athelete profile for Zhang Dan
and Zhang Hao.)

The two of them put on a short program that was amazingly impressive,
and their free progam, though it suffered because of Dan's injury, was
still worthy of silver, technically as well as artistically, in my
opinion.