Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

06 May 2008 06:28:35

wkhedr

May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)

06 May 2008 06:32:46

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)

You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
you uploaded? ;)
bg

06 May 2008 06:35:04

wkhedr

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 9:32=A0am, bg <ecy0...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)
>
> You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
> you uploaded? ;)
> bg

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/9e01887e6e=
74f07b/95bdef694f32c0ce?#95bdef694f32c0ce

06 May 2008 06:56:15

wkhedr

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 9:35=A0am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On May 6, 9:32=A0am, bg <ecy0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)
>
> > You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
> > you uploaded? ;)
> > bg
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/9e0...

The goal is increase the consistency of his game and reduce the UE.
Federer loses to Nadal more than Nadal is beating him.

06 May 2008 07:09:34

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 9:56 am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:

> The goal is increase the consistency of his game and reduce the UE.
> Federer loses to Nadal more than Nadal is beating him.

Maybe he didn't come in as often as you would have preferred, but he
did come to net a number of times and was quite successful there.

I agree about him losing to Nadal more than Nadal beating him.
Usually because of UE's and POOR shot selections.

06 May 2008 09:42:51

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 9:56 am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com > wrote:
> On May 6, 9:35 am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 6, 9:32 am, bg <ecy0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > > May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)
>
> > > You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
> > > you uploaded? ;)
> > > bg
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/9e0...
>
> The goal is increase the consistency of his game and reduce the UE.
> Federer loses to Nadal more than Nadal is beating him.

That's only partially right, I think. I assume your numbers are
correct, but even then it's possible that the points he lost by
rushing, one way or another, might still have been lost, not changing
the balance much. Fact is, if Federer allows himself to get bogged
down in a baseline quagmire with Nadal, he'll lose. That's a fairly
widely held view, and I think explains why he believes "something
else" is necessary.

And that's the problem: it shouldn't be "something" - it's
*everything* that is needed.

Basically, he isn't going to beat Nadal unless he knocks him out of
his comfort zone. And settling on any one tactic, whether it's staying
back and letting Nadal settle into a groove, or coming to net and
giving Nadal a bit of target practice (which in the end is just a
different groove) isn't going to do it.

What might do it, though it's easier posted than done, is to keep all
options open, and using them *all* judiciously. Which is tough,
because how do you practice keeping your options open, constructing
points patiently, and closing out each one with the best available
tactic? Federer clearly has the tools, pace The Usual Idiots. But it's
been extremely difficult for him to select the right ones at the right
times, point after point, for an entire match: usually, he settles
into one or another tactic, and when Nadal finds his range with it he
isn't able to switch nimbly enough, which is why he often starts out
great, and then gets rolled.

Part of the problem, I think, is that Nadal on clay is the only
matchup that requires that degree of mental flexibility of him, so
it's a hard habit to develop.

06 May 2008 09:53:22

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

Great post. You're absolutely correct that the only way Fed will beat
a healthy/rested Rafa on clay is to get Nadal out of his comfort zone.
Hasn't three straight losses at the FO convinced him that trading
groundstrokes with Nadal will NOT defeat him?

06 May 2008 10:01:12

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 12:53 pm, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
> Great post. You're absolutely correct that the only way Fed will beat
> a healthy/rested Rafa on clay is to get Nadal out of his comfort zone.
> Hasn't three straight losses at the FO convinced him that trading
> groundstrokes with Nadal will NOT defeat him?

To be fair to Federer, last year he came in with a different tactic.
But when Nadal adjusted, he wasn't able to stay with him. He can't let
Nadal adjust. That's the bottom line. And that means using a variety
of strategies throughout the match.

Again, that's a tremendously difficult thing to do, mentally. He has
the shots. I don't know whether Federer can be that flexible - and I
think he's one of the most tactically flexible players I ever saw.

06 May 2008 10:23:30

wkhedr

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 1:01=A0pm, pedrod...@snip.net wrote:
> On May 6, 12:53 pm, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
>
> > Great post. You're absolutely correct that the only way Fed will beat
> > a healthy/rested Rafa on clay is to get Nadal out of his comfort zone.
> > Hasn't three straight losses at the FO convinced him that trading
> > groundstrokes with Nadal will NOT defeat him?
>
> To be fair to Federer, last year he came in with a different tactic.
> But when Nadal adjusted, he wasn't able to stay with him. He can't let
> Nadal adjust. That's the bottom line. And that means using a variety
> of strategies throughout the match.
>
> Again, that's a tremendously difficult thing to do, mentally. He has
> the shots. I don't know whether Federer can be that flexible - and I
> think he's one of the most tactically flexible players I ever saw.

Too much tactics! All they do is distracting Federer from his focus
and getting him beaten easily.
When he gets in to a rally and loses a point, the next things he does
is runnin to the net S/V and losing another point. Self-destruction.

No one is going to take his volleying skills and lock them somewhere
before he plays, for sure he has them.
But to go to the court and say I have many options, this is wrong, and
this is what he has done the last three years.

He needs to stay in the baseline, very relaxed, contstruct points and
win the points. He has great ground strokes.
If Nadal pushes him one way or another in a way that exposes some
weaknesses in his backhand or forehand, this is what he needs to focus
on, get them fixed and find a way to divert the pressure from his
wweakness.

I don't see any other player that keeps exchanging backhands more than
Federer. Sometimes I feel he enjoys it.
Once he started to get pressured on the backhand side, he needs to try
to get to his comfort zone, either by going down the line, or spinning
deep high balls to Nadal to buy some time, etc.

07 May 2008 05:41:25

Whisper

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

wkhedr wrote:
> On May 6, 9:35 am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> On May 6, 9:32 am, bg <ecy0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>> May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)
>>> You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
>>> you uploaded? ;)
>>> bg
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/9e0...
>
> The goal is increase the consistency of his game and reduce the UE.
> Federer loses to Nadal more than Nadal is beating him.

lol

06 May 2008 23:51:04

TJT

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

Whisper wrote:
> wkhedr wrote:
>> On May 6, 9:35 am, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>> On May 6, 9:32 am, bg <ecy0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6 May, 18:28, wkhedr <wkh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>>>> May be he read my suggestion here in rst :)
>>>> You mean he might not have watched the highlights of Rome 2006 that
>>>> you uploaded? ;)
>>>> bg
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/browse_frm/thread/9e0...
>>
>> The goal is increase the consistency of his game and reduce the UE.
>> Federer loses to Nadal more than Nadal is beating him.
>
>
> lol

I didn't even bother to comment on that one.

06 May 2008 14:02:42

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

"Federer needs to stay in the baseline, very relaxed, contstruct
points and
win the points. He has great ground strokes."

His groundstrokes on clay usually are not consistent. He can start out
tremendously with very few UE's like he did in the FO final in '06.
Then Nadal raises the level of his play, starts hitting impossible
winners and Fed goes away mentally. This happens over and over on
clay. I don't believe it is possible for Roger Federer to be very
relaxed in a FO final because of the unbelievably high stakes. He's
not a nerveless player like Borg was. His nerves get to him
increasingly as he ages.

His groundstrokes on clay are not as good as Nadal. His instincts and
confidence on clay are not as high as Rafa's. Obviously he's the
superior player and on any given day, he can beat Rafa on clay, though
by avoiding the net I believe his chances are small. His tactics have
lost him the last 3 FO's. He must change a losing game. Incorporating
the dropshot won't be enough. He needs to attack the net on short
second serves and short balls to disrupt Rafa's rhythm and KEEP DOING
IT.

06 May 2008 14:11:15

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 5:02 pm, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:

>...the dropshot won't be enough. He needs to attack the net on short
> second serves and short balls to disrupt Rafa's rhythm and KEEP DOING
> IT.

If he "keeps doing it", Nadal will have a fun-filled afternoon of
target shooting. I don't believe there is one single tactic that will
work. To keep Nadal on his heels you have to keep him guessing.

06 May 2008 14:27:15

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On 6 May, 22:02, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
> "Federer needs to stay in the baseline, very relaxed, contstruct
> points and
> win the points. He has great ground strokes."
>
> His groundstrokes on clay usually are not consistent. He can start out
> tremendously with very few UE's like he did in the FO final in '06.
> Then Nadal raises the level of his play, starts hitting impossible
> winners and Fed goes away mentally. This happens over and over on
> clay. I don't believe it is possible for Roger Federer to be very
> relaxed in a FO final because of the unbelievably high stakes. He's
> not a nerveless player like Borg was. His nerves get to him
> increasingly as he ages.

Every player gets nervous - and Borg certainly did

06 May 2008 17:05:08

arnab.z@gmail

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 11:01 pm, pedrod...@snip.net wrote:
> On May 6, 12:53 pm, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
>
> > Great post. You're absolutely correct that the only way Fed will beat
> > a healthy/rested Rafa on clay is to get Nadal out of his comfort zone.
> > Hasn't three straight losses at the FO convinced him that trading
> > groundstrokes with Nadal will NOT defeat him?
>
> To be fair to Federer, last year he came in with a different tactic.
> But when Nadal adjusted, he wasn't able to stay with him. He can't let
> Nadal adjust. That's the bottom line. And that means using a variety
> of strategies throughout the match.
>
> Again, that's a tremendously difficult thing to do, mentally. He has
> the shots. I don't know whether Federer can be that flexible - and I
> think he's one of the most tactically flexible players I ever saw.

It's kind of funny how Federer tends to believe that Nadal has a one-
dimensional game, yet when he applies a variety of tactics to beat
Nadal, it seems that Nadal still comes out on top in the end.

Three of Nadal's greatest assets are his foot speed, great court
sense, and great anticipation. Before Nadal came, Federer was the top
player in these three categories, but now it's Nadal. He is too quick
and too sharp for Federer. Federer just cannot outfox him.

06 May 2008 20:45:45

Re: Federer is staying away from the net today, not sure why!

On May 6, 8:05 pm, "arnab.z@gmail" <arnab.zah...@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> It's kind of funny how Federer tends to believe that Nadal has a one-
> dimensional game, yet when he applies a variety of tactics to beat
> Nadal, it seems that Nadal still comes out on top in the end.

I know what you mean, but I do think the point of "one-dimensional" is
kinda getting lost hereabouts: it *doesn't* mean 'ineffective". If
Liechtenstein arms itself to the teeth with daggers, flintlocks,
spears, blunderbusses, arquebusses, pistols, blowdarts and, of course,
shuriken, they will have a multifaceted arsenal. They will still have
a terribly inadequate military. And they will still be taken out by a
smallish tactical nuclear weapon.

Federer is right: Nadal can only play one game, with fairly minor
variations: run like mad, hit really hard and with tremendous spin,
run like mad, etc. etc. etc. But he does what he does extremely well,
so his lack of a plan B is not an issue. Unless, of course, he isn't
able to play plan A, as in those occasions when he's nursing an
injury. But so far, those seem to be the only times when his lack of
versatility gets exposed.

> Three of Nadal's greatest assets are his foot speed, great court
> sense, and great anticipation. Before Nadal came, Federer was the top
> player in these three categories, but now it's Nadal. He is too quick
> and too sharp for Federer. Federer just cannot outfox him.

Right. Nadal is just too strong in the basics of the game to be easily
"outfoxed". He anticipates well, is very fast around the court, and
can hit with power from what would be a defensive posture for any
other player. There are just very few weaknesses for Federer to
exploit.

Having said that, I still believe a large portion of Federer's problem
with Nadal is mental. Hard to prove, though, unless he suddenly gets
over it.