05 May 2008 18:47:34

Rick Decker

Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. Rick Decker

06 May 2008 06:26:05

Stromata

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

Rick Decker wrote: > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > Rick Decker Roger is more dominant on non-clay, because he wins those big titles. He can't win Monte Carlo, Rome or Roland Garros because of Nadal.

06 May 2008 12:26:04

Sakari Lund

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On Mon, 05 May 2008 18:47:34 -1000, Rick Decker <rickdecker@hawaii.rr.com > wrote: >Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - >Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > >I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. I have already said that this year he seems to be doing better on clay than on HC...

06 May 2008 04:35:12

topspin

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com > wrote: > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > Rick Decker Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts sometimes!), which has got me thinking. Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his absolute best surface. It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many of them performed so well across all surfaces. Nice question.

06 May 2008 05:29:06

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 7:35 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com > wrote: > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > > > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > > Rick Decker > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his > absolute best surface. > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many > of them performed so well across all surfaces. > > Nice question. He has won on HC against the best in this era, but not on clay?

06 May 2008 05:48:35

topspin

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On 6 May, 13:29, guyanper...@yahoo.com wrote: > On May 6, 7:35 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > > > > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > > > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > > > Rick Decker > > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts > > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. > > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC > > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite > > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his > > absolute best surface. > > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it > > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay > > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players > > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. > > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - > > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many > > of them performed so well across all surfaces. > > > Nice question. > > He has won on HC against the best in this era, but not on clay? I'm not sure about your point. He has won, and lost, on both HC and clay against the best of this era. He has won more than he has lost on HC, but..... ..if the best of this era on HC is weaker on that surface than the best of this era on clay (relatively speaking) - then which is his 'better' surface? If you take a never-mind-the-quality-feel-the-width slammist approach, then you say clearly HC is better. If you take a more rounded view, it is less clear cut. I prefer a rounded view.

06 May 2008 06:07:58

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 8:48 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com > wrote: > On 6 May, 13:29, guyanper...@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On May 6, 7:35 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > > > > > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > > > > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > > > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > > > > Rick Decker > > > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts > > > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. > > > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC > > > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite > > > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his > > > absolute best surface. > > > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it > > > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay > > > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players > > > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. > > > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - > > > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many > > > of them performed so well across all surfaces. > > > > Nice question. > > > He has won on HC against the best in this era, but not on clay? > > I'm not sure about your point. He has won, and lost, on both HC and > clay against the best of this era. He has won more than he has lost on > HC, but..... > > ..if the best of this era on HC is weaker on that surface than the > best of this era on clay (relatively speaking) - then which is his > 'better' surface? > > If you take a never-mind-the-quality-feel-the-width slammist approach, > then you say clearly HC is better. > > If you take a more rounded view, it is less clear cut. > > I prefer a rounded view. What? He has not won on clay against the best [Rafa], not even close! He is good on HC, grass,indoor but not on clay for sure?

06 May 2008 16:11:03

Sakari Lund

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On Tue, 6 May 2008 06:07:58 -0700 (PDT), guyanpersad@yahoo.com wrote: >On May 6, 8:48 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On 6 May, 13:29, guyanper...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > On May 6, 7:35 am, topspin <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: >> >> > > > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - >> > > > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. >> >> > > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. >> >> > > > Rick Decker >> >> > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts >> > > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. >> >> > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC >> > > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite >> > > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his >> > > absolute best surface. >> >> > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it >> > > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay >> > > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players >> > > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. >> >> > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - >> > > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many >> > > of them performed so well across all surfaces. >> >> > > Nice question. >> >> > He has won on HC against the best in this era, but not on clay? >> >> I'm not sure about your point. He has won, and lost, on both HC and >> clay against the best of this era. He has won more than he has lost on >> HC, but..... >> >> ..if the best of this era on HC is weaker on that surface than the >> best of this era on clay (relatively speaking) - then which is his >> 'better' surface? >> >> If you take a never-mind-the-quality-feel-the-width slammist approach, >> then you say clearly HC is better. >> >> If you take a more rounded view, it is less clear cut. >> >> I prefer a rounded view. > >What? He has not won on clay against the best [Rafa], not even close! >He is good on HC, grass,indoor but not on clay for sure? Geez, how many times the point has to be explained to you?

06 May 2008 18:54:22

*skriptis

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

"topspin" <goolagongfan@hotmail.com > wrote in message news:e9527560-6ff3-40bf-802e-b009bf254967@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: >> Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - >> Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. >> >> I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. >> >> Rick Decker > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his > absolute best surface. > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many > of them performed so well across all surfaces. > > Nice question. So essentially if he had played in the 90s he woulda have ended with Courier-like career?

06 May 2008 10:07:29

kipps

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 12:54 pm, "*skriptis" <skrip...@post.t-com.hr > wrote: > "topspin" <goolagong...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:e9527560-6ff3-40bf-802e-b009bf254967@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > > > > On 6 May, 05:47, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > >> Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > >> Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > >> I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > >> Rick Decker > > > Now that is a really interesting question (unusual in these parts > > sometimes!), which has got me thinking. > > > Federer obviously has better achievements on HC, but if his HC > > challengers are not as good on HC as Nadal is on clay (a definite > > possibility), then there is a real question as to which is his > > absolute best surface. > > > It is, of course, unanswerable except in an opinionated way, but it > > got me thinking who would give Federer more problems - great clay > > players such as Nadal, Kuerten, Courier, Borg, or great HC players > > such as Sampras. Lendl, McEnroe, Connors. > > > I think overall he is better on HC than on clay, but it is close - > > which, of course, is why he is up there with the best ever. Not many > > of them performed so well across all surfaces. > > > Nice question. > > So essentially if he had played in the 90s he woulda have ended with > Courier-like career? I tend to disagree with topspin! [heresy?] I watched Laver at his prime, Hoad just past his, I tend to think that Federer is the best HC player I have seen, Sampras the best GC player, whereas on clay I would put Rafa, Kuerten, Borg, even Lendl ahead of him, he is much much better on HC and GC and not even close on clay

06 May 2008 10:45:50

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 5, 11:47=A0pm, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com > wrote: > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > Rick Decker In the past two years more guys (Murray - 2 , Nalbandian - 2, Djokovic - 2, Canas - 2, Gonzalez - 1, Fish -1 and Roddick -1, don't know if I've missed anyone else) have beaten him on hard courts than on clay courts (only Nadal and Volandri). So he's solid on clay courts for sure. It's just that the current clay monster is too powerful to break through.

06 May 2008 11:18:53

undecided

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 12:47=A0am, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com > wrote: > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > Rick Decker Interesting question. I think he's better on clay than HC based on his losses on clay. He really only loses to Rafa.

06 May 2008 21:55:00

TJT

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

undecided wrote: > On May 6, 12:47 am, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: >> Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - >> Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. >> >> I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. >> >> Rick Decker > > Interesting question. I think he's better on clay than HC based on his > losses on clay. He really only loses to Rafa. Last year he had his Volandri loss though. There are less clay court tournaments than HC, so less chance for losing. And don't we forget that before Nadal began his clay domination Federer didn't really win any other titles than Hamburg during clay seasons. I feel he has been enjoying his aura on claycourts during couple last years. I don't think he has improved on clay or that field has gotten worse. That's what happens when you're good enough on other surfaces. Even McEnroe/Sampras had their good runs on clay at height of their auras, when other players' respect for them was at it's highest.

06 May 2008 12:11:47

Joe Ramirez

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 2:55=A0pm, TJT <the...@yahoo.com > wrote: > undecided wrote: > > On May 6, 12:47 am, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > >> Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > >> Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > >> I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > >> Rick Decker > > > Interesting question. I think he's better on clay than HC based on his > > losses on clay. He really only loses to Rafa. > > Last year he had his Volandri loss though. There are less clay court > tournaments than HC, so less chance for losing. > And don't we forget that before Nadal began his clay domination Federer > didn't really win any other titles than Hamburg during clay seasons. > > I feel he has been enjoying his aura on claycourts during couple last > years. I don't think he has improved on clay or that field has gotten wors= e. > > That's what happens when you're good enough on other surfaces. Even > McEnroe/Sampras had their good runs on clay at height of their auras, > when other players' respect for them was at it's highest. It's not that they were at the height of their "auras"; they were at the height of their *powers* as players, on all surfaces. See http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/msg/450c38c54bf2bf1d Players achieve their best results when they are playing their best. They don't achieve their best results because they create their best auras because they are playing their best. Adding auras to the equation is like adding ether to space or phlogiston to a pile of coal. Joe Ramirez

06 May 2008 12:31:27

fearsomeforehand

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

On May 6, 2:18=A0pm, undecided <cost...@gmail.com > wrote: > On May 6, 12:47=A0am, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: > > > Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - > > Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. > > > I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. > > > Rick Decker > > Interesting question. I think he's better on clay than HC based on his > losses on clay. He really only loses to Rafa. Nope..the reason for that is there are many more good HC players nowadays than claycourters. Fed is definitely better on hardcourts and (in his prime, at least) moves and reacts better on HCs than on clay.

06 May 2008 22:44:46

TJT

Re: Is Federer A Better Clay Court than Hard Court Player?

Joe Ramirez wrote: > On May 6, 2:55 pm, TJT <the...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> undecided wrote: >>> On May 6, 12:47 am, Rick Decker <rickdec...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote: >>>> Now please don't trash me...Who as beat him other than Nadal on clay - >>>> Volandri once when he was dropping Roche. >>>> I just am posting this as food for thought and to get some comments. >>>> Rick Decker >>> Interesting question. I think he's better on clay than HC based on his >>> losses on clay. He really only loses to Rafa. >> Last year he had his Volandri loss though. There are less clay court >> tournaments than HC, so less chance for losing. >> And don't we forget that before Nadal began his clay domination Federer >> didn't really win any other titles than Hamburg during clay seasons. >> >> I feel he has been enjoying his aura on claycourts during couple last >> years. I don't think he has improved on clay or that field has gotten worse. >> >> That's what happens when you're good enough on other surfaces. Even >> McEnroe/Sampras had their good runs on clay at height of their auras, >> when other players' respect for them was at it's highest. > > It's not that they were at the height of their "auras"; they were at > the height of their *powers* as players, on all surfaces. See > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.tennis/msg/450c38c54bf2bf1d > > Players achieve their best results when they are playing their best. > They don't achieve their best results because they create their best > auras because they are playing their best. Adding auras to the > equation is like adding ether to space or phlogiston to a pile of > coal. > > Joe Ramirez Could be. I do feel aura has part in it. Thanks for the link btw. :)