25 Feb 2007 21:13:23
Hugh Browton
Old petrol


Dear All

Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
flat.

It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the outboard,
as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?

--
regards
hugh
hugh at clarity point uk point co
(by the sea) (using Hogwasher)

You never can truly tell when you have run out of invisible ink.



25 Feb 2007 22:16:23
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk >
wrote:

>
>Dear All
>
>Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
>flat.
>
>It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the outboard,
>as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
>petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?


That's what I do. There was a long thread here a few months ago. Some
claimed that the oil could damage the exhaust cat, but I cant see it
hurting at that sort of dilution. It must be less than many cars burn
in the normal course.

Ian


25 Feb 2007 22:33:11
TonyB
Re: Old petrol


"Hugh Browton" <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote in message
news:0001HW.C207AC7301A6E115F0284648@news.individual.net...
>
> Dear All
>
> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
> flat.
>
> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
outboard,
> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?

They do say about three months is the longest to leave petrol these days.
I always run my o/b after I've taken the fuel line off so I don't leave
petrol in the float chamber.
Then after winter I just add a gallon of fresh to the tank and it has always
started and run fine.
Even when I used last year's fuel it ran fine too, that was fuel about 4
months old with no fresh added,
but it depends if you want to take the risk.
TonyB




25 Feb 2007 23:35:36
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote:

>
>Dear All
>
>Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
>flat.
>
>It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the outboard,
>as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
>petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?

Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 00:12:30
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:33:11 -0000, "TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

>
>"Hugh Browton" <useneth@**.not.uk> wrote in message
>news:0001HW.C207AC7301A6E115F0284648@news.individual.net...
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
>> flat.
>>
>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
>outboard,
>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>
>They do say about three months is the longest to leave petrol these days.
>I always run my o/b after I've taken the fuel line off so I don't leave
>petrol in the float chamber.
>Then after winter I just add a gallon of fresh to the tank and it has always
>started and run fine.
>Even when I used last year's fuel it ran fine too, that was fuel about 4
>months old with no fresh added,
> but it depends if you want to take the risk.

We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without a
problem.
--

Martin



25 Feb 2007 23:31:00
Hugh Browton
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
(in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com >):

> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear All
>>
>> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
>> flat.
>>
>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the outboard,
>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>
> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>

Because I was recommended not to.

(And there's no oil in it - for another poster).

--
regards
hugh
hugh at clarity point uk point co
(by the sea) (using Hogwasher)

You never can truly tell when you have run out of invisible ink.



26 Feb 2007 00:48:05
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
>(in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Dear All
>>>
>>> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
>>> flat.
>>>
>>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the outboard,
>>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
>>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>>
>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>>
>
>Because I was recommended not to.

I understood that, but is there any substance behind the recommendation or is it
just more bollocks. I've never thrown away old two stroke petrol and I have
never had a problem.

>
>(And there's no oil in it - for another poster).

Do you think they throw away the fuel in boat yards that has been in their tanks
from the end of one season to the beginning of the next.
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 01:11:39
Ronald Raygun
Re: Old petrol

Martin wrote:

> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
> a problem.

And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.

Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?



26 Feb 2007 00:29:17
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 25 Feb, 21:13, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote:

>petrol denatures over time.

Not in any meaningful way ove the timescales we're describing here
IME. I have owned a variety of infrequently used petrol (2+4 stroke)
devices over years and never had the slightest problem with petrol
left in the tank for months on end. Certianly one year plus.



26 Feb 2007 09:27:42
Keith Lewis
Re: Old petrol


"Hugh Browton" <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote in message
news:0001HW.C207AC7301A6E115F0284648@news.individual.net...
>
> Dear All
>
> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
> flat.
>
> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
> outboard,
> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>
>
I think I started off the previous thread.

Discovered that our local recycling centre took it free of charge (it went
in the old oil tank)


Keith




26 Feb 2007 09:47:24
Hugh Browton
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:48:05 +0000, Martin wrote
(in article <7s74u2lbad7h6mrsmf2jni1saklko4e356@4ax.com >):

> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
>> (in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
>>>> outboard,
>>>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of
>>>> old
>>>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>>>
>>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>>>
>>
>> Because I was recommended not to.
>
> I understood that, but is there any substance behind the recommendation or is

> it
> just more bollocks. I've never thrown away old two stroke petrol and I have
> never had a problem.
>
>>
>> (And there's no oil in it - for another poster).
>
> Do you think they throw away the fuel in boat yards that has been in their
> tanks
> from the end of one season to the beginning of the next.
>

No, but boat yard tanks-in-use get re-filled (and therefore refreshed) over
time - more regularly I assume than my boat tank. And I haven't used my
engine much since september. But I did put a quantity of fresh petrol into it
around then, so perhaps I'll remove half of it into my car, and leave half of
it, and put in fresh.


Thanks, everyone.

--
regards
hugh
hugh at clarity point uk point co
(by the sea) (using Hogwasher)

You never can truly tell when you have run out of invisible ink.



26 Feb 2007 02:21:14
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 09:27, "Keith Lewis" <k...@speleo.co.uk > wrote:

> I think I started off the previous thread.
>
> Discovered that our local recycling centre took it free of charge (it went
> in the old oil tank)

Keith, did you hear that =A320 notes degrade? If you send all you're old
ones to me I'll ensure they get safely disposed of!



26 Feb 2007 11:40:30
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
>> a problem.
>
>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>
>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?

They are if they are Japanese.
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 12:25:59
Martin
Re: Old petrol


On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
>> a problem.
>
>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>
>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?

There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
distorts.
How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 03:33:00
Tony of Judicious
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 11:25, Martin <m...@address.invalid > wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.s...@localhost.localdomain>
> wrote:
>
> >Martin wrote:
>
> >> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
> >> a problem.
>
> >And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
> >'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
> >started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>
> >Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>
> There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
> stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
> Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
> impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
> when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
> distorts.
> How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?
> --
>
> Martin

Definetly fill the tank at the end of the season. Its amazing how
much water can collect in a half empty tank during a winter.
Actuallty I agree with removing the impeller for the winter, unless
the engine gets turned over on a regular basis. Rather do that than
have a failure.

J's impellor is sitting in the cubbyhole behind the chart table. Only
a short time to fitting out.

*grins happily*



26 Feb 2007 03:35:16
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 11:25, Martin <m...@address.invalid > wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.s...@localhost.localdomain>
> wrote:
>
> >Martin wrote:
>
> >> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
> >> a problem.
>
> >And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
> >'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
> >started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>
> >Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>
> There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
> stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
> Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
> impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
> when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
> distorts.
> How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?

Well said!

People will believe anything they hear and pass it on as fact to the
next person with no thought.



26 Feb 2007 11:37:47
Dave Royal
Re: Old petrol

Martin wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
> wrote:
>
> There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
> stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
> Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
> impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
> when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
> distorts.
> How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?
I did a Diesel Engine course yesterday. The instructor recommended
removing the impeller - and showed us one that was permanently distorted
(though how long it had been in place he didn't say.) He also showed us
a permanently distorted alternator belt.

OTOH he said that replacing the impeller every year was a waste of money.

Dave
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)


26 Feb 2007 03:49:23
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 11:37, Dave Royal <d...@dave123royal.com > wrote:

> I did a Diesel Engine course yesterday. The instructor recommended
> removing the impeller - and showed us one that was permanently distorted
> (though how long it had been in place he didn't say.)

Using a sample size of one doens't seem a great way to make the point.
He could equally have made exactly the opposite case by holding up a
non-distorted impeller.



26 Feb 2007 12:19:42
Ronald Raygun
Re: Old petrol

Martin wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>Martin wrote:
>>
>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>> without a problem.
>>
>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>>
>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>
> They are if they are Japanese.

They run on vintage sake.



26 Feb 2007 12:21:42
Ronald Raygun
Re: Old petrol

toad wrote:

> On 26 Feb, 11:37, Dave Royal <d...@dave123royal.com> wrote:
>
>> I did a Diesel Engine course yesterday. The instructor recommended
>> removing the impeller - and showed us one that was permanently distorted
>> (though how long it had been in place he didn't say.)
>
> Using a sample size of one doens't seem a great way to make the point.
> He could equally have made exactly the opposite case by holding up a
> non-distorted impeller.

I doubt whether his point was based on a sample size of one.
What he showed wasn't a sample, but an example.



26 Feb 2007 13:41:21
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb 2007 03:33:00 -0800, "Tony of Judicious" <tony@thoward.plus.com >
wrote:

>On 26 Feb, 11:25, Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.s...@localhost.localdomain>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Martin wrote:
>>
>> >> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs without
>> >> a problem.
>>
>> >And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>> >'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>> >started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>>
>> >Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>
>> There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
>> stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
>> Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
>> impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
>> when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
>> distorts.
>> How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?
>> --
>>
>> Martin
>
>Definetly fill the tank at the end of the season. Its amazing how
>much water can collect in a half empty tank during a winter.

Especially those belonging to boatyards :o)

Since I stopped buying diesel from boatyards ten years ago, I have had no water
in my fuel tank or in my water separator. See David Pascoe's article on the
subject at
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/surveyorrelated.htm
If it's server ever recovers.

>Actuallty I agree with removing the impeller for the winter, unless
>the engine gets turned over on a regular basis. Rather do that than
>have a failure.

In 34 years, I have never removed the impeller for the winter, nor have I had
had an impeller failure. Maybe it depends on the manufacturer of the impeller.
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 04:44:33
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 12:21, Ronald Raygun <no.s...@localhost.localdomain > wrote:
> toad wrote:
> > On 26 Feb, 11:37, Dave Royal <d...@dave123royal.com> wrote:
>
> >> I did a Diesel Engine course yesterday. The instructor recommended
> >> removing the impeller - and showed us one that was permanently distorted
> >> (though how long it had been in place he didn't say.)
>
> > Using a sample size of one doens't seem a great way to make the point.
> > He could equally have made exactly the opposite case by holding up a
> > non-distorted impeller.
>
> I doubt whether his point was based on a sample size of one.
> What he showed wasn't a sample, but an example.

I'm still going with "case not proven".

I'm all ears though.



26 Feb 2007 14:02:04
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:37:47 +0000, Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com > wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
>> wrote:
>>
>> There are other recommendations, to fill up the boat's fuel tank in autumn to
>> stop condensation. To replace the impeller every year.
>> Are you supposed to throw away a tank full of fuel as well as a perfectly good
>> impeller every year. A PBO "expert" even said the impeller has to be removed
>> when the boat is not in use for a while, because otherwise the impeller
>> distorts.
>> How about justifying this nonsense if you go along with it?
>I did a Diesel Engine course yesterday. The instructor recommended
>removing the impeller - and showed us one that was permanently distorted
>(though how long it had been in place he didn't say.) He also showed us
>a permanently distorted alternator belt.
>
>OTOH he said that replacing the impeller every year was a waste of money.

I worked that out for myself :-)
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 14:04:30
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:19:42 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>>> without a problem.
>>>
>>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting handle.
>>>
>>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>
>> They are if they are Japanese.
>
>They run on vintage sake.

or bonzai green diesel.

What have you been on for the last few days? I don't recall disagreeing with you
before.
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 11:08:31
Cerumen
Re: Old petrol


"Martin" <me@address.invalid > wrote in message
news:7s74u2lbad7h6mrsmf2jni1saklko4e356@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
>>(in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear All
>>>>
>>>> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but
>>>> battery
>>>> flat.
>>>>
>>>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
>>>> outboard,
>>>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of
>>>> old
>>>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>>>
>>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>>>
>>
>>Because I was recommended not to.
>
> I understood that, but is there any substance behind the recommendation or
> is it
> just more bollocks. I've never thrown away old two stroke petrol and I
> have
> never had a problem.
>
2 stroke does not deteriorate in the same way as non oiled petrol but that
said if the engine starts and runs on old petrol why not use it? I have had
the experience of an engine refusing to start until it was given fresh
petrol but even then I put the old stuff back at about 50% after getting it
started and it ran with no problems. How these new fangled electronic
injector type things handle it though I have no idea.


--
Chris, West Cork, Ireland.




26 Feb 2007 13:18:27
Ian Johnston
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:48:05 +0100, Martin wrote:

> I understood that, but is there any substance behind the recommendation or is it
> just more bollocks. I've never thrown away old two stroke petrol and I have
> never had a problem.

I laid my boat up for five years, and when I recommissioned her the
Seagull ran perfectly well on two stroke mix which hadbeen sitting in
tanks all that time.

Ian


26 Feb 2007 13:20:04
Ian Johnston
Re: Old petrol

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton wrote:


> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
> (in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):

>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?

> Because I was recommended not to.

I suggest you ask whoever recommended (when you first posted it had only
be "suggested") this to you what the basis of their recommendation is, and
what evidence they have. What, precisely, do they think happens to petrol
in a sealed container over a few months?

Ian


26 Feb 2007 14:34:54
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:08:31 -0000, "Cerumen" <cerumen.chris@gmail.com > wrote:

>
>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>news:7s74u2lbad7h6mrsmf2jni1saklko4e356@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
>>>(in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:23 +0000, Hugh Browton <useneth@**.not.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear All
>>>>>
>>>>> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but
>>>>> battery
>>>>> flat.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
>>>>> outboard,
>>>>> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of
>>>>> old
>>>>> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>>>>
>>>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Because I was recommended not to.
>>
>> I understood that, but is there any substance behind the recommendation or
>> is it
>> just more bollocks. I've never thrown away old two stroke petrol and I
>> have
>> never had a problem.
>>
>2 stroke does not deteriorate in the same way as non oiled petrol but that
>said if the engine starts and runs on old petrol why not use it? I have had
>the experience of an engine refusing to start until it was given fresh
>petrol but even then I put the old stuff back at about 50% after getting it
>started and it ran with no problems. How these new fangled electronic
>injector type things handle it though I have no idea.

What you do get with 2 strokes that haven't been used for some time is the
petrol in the carburetor evaporating leaving the oil behind, clogging the jet
and preventing the engine starting when the engine hasn't been used for a time.
I have seen recommendations to drain the carburetor at the end of the season.
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 13:50:59
Ronald Raygun
Re: Old petrol

Martin wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:19:42 GMT, Ronald Raygun
> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
>>Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>>Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>>>> without a problem.
>>>>
>>>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting
>>>>handle.
>>>>
>>>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>>
>>> They are if they are Japanese.
>>
>>They run on vintage sake.
>
> or bonzai green diesel.
>
> What have you been on for the last few days? I don't recall disagreeing
> with you before.

You can't be perfect all the time. :-)

What are you disagreeing with me about about? Nothing in this thread,
I think. I don't actually support the suggestion that petrol goes off
with age, I was just pulling your leg about your anecdote, given that
last October isn't exactly a long time ago.

The only thing I remember disagreeing with you about recently is your
foolish notion that running a tiddly outboard on a pitching boat with
the prop out the water half the time is a good thing.



26 Feb 2007 15:15:55
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 13:50:59 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:19:42 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>
>>>Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>>>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>>>Martin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>>>>> without a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>>>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>>>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting
>>>>>handle.
>>>>>
>>>>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>>>
>>>> They are if they are Japanese.
>>>
>>>They run on vintage sake.
>>
>> or bonzai green diesel.
>>
>> What have you been on for the last few days? I don't recall disagreeing
>> with you before.
>
>You can't be perfect all the time. :-)

I know, I took that into account. :-)

>
>What are you disagreeing with me about about? Nothing in this thread,
>I think. I don't actually support the suggestion that petrol goes off
>with age, I was just pulling your leg about your anecdote, given that
>last October isn't exactly a long time ago.

It seems like it, after one of the wettest winters I can remember.

>
>The only thing I remember disagreeing with you about recently is your
>foolish notion that running a tiddly outboard on a pitching boat with
>the prop out the water half the time is a good thing.

I didn't think it was a good thing. Having a 50hp engine on a pitching boat
with the prop out of the water half the time isn't a good thing either.
Talking of MacGregor 26s ...
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 14:55:41
Richard
Re: Old petrol

I decant and use the old petrol elsewhere (mix with 2-T and use in strimmer)

but
swill out the last half pint and throw it away.

I just did my tank and washed out some black "grit"

I don't know what it was or how it got there but I'm glad to get rid of it.




"Hugh Browton" <useneth@**.not.uk > wrote in message
news:0001HW.C207AC7301A6E115F0284648@news.individual.net...
>
> Dear All
>
> Visited my boat this afternoon, all well - no water in bilge, but battery
> flat.
>
> It's been suggested that I replace the petrol in the tank for the
> outboard,
> as petrol denatures over time. Fair enough - but how do you dispose of old
> petrol? Put a bit of it in my car from time to time - say 10% per fill?
>
> --
> regards
> hugh
> hugh at clarity point uk point co
> (by the sea) (using Hogwasher)
>
> You never can truly tell when you have run out of invisible ink.
>




26 Feb 2007 08:27:42
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb, 16:13, Martin <m...@address.invalid > wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:40:57 -0000, "Cerumen" <cerumen.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Ian Johnston" <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> >news:54g543F208t18U15@mid.individual.net...
> >> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton wrote:
>
> >>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
> >>> (in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms...@4ax.com>):
>
> >>>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>
> >>> Because I was recommended not to.
>
> >> I suggest you ask whoever recommended (when you first posted it had only
> >> be "suggested") this to you what the basis of their recommendation is, and
> >> what evidence they have. What, precisely, do they think happens to petrol
> >> in a sealed container over a few months?
>
> >That's the crux of it really, in a car tank, unsealed, it might loose some
> >of the higher distillates to evaporation over a period of time, in a sealed
> >outboard tank it can't.
>
> Can you give a reference to a site containing expert information about petrol
> losing some of the higher distillates to evaporation over a period of time?
> I have googled and found absolutely nothing.


The idea that petrol in an outboard will somehow significantly 'go
off' over a winter or even a year is bollocks, but I'd hope we'd all
be aware that petrol evaporates! Hardly an urban myth.



26 Feb 2007 18:45:00
Keith Lewis
Re: Old petrol


"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1172485274.436827.114050@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
On 26 Feb, 09:27, "Keith Lewis" <k...@speleo.co.uk > wrote:

> I think I started off the previous thread.
>
> Discovered that our local recycling centre took it free of charge (it went
> in the old oil tank)

Keith, did you hear that 20 notes degrade? If you send all you're old
ones to me I'll ensure they get safely disposed of!

Toad

Well this was 2 stroke mix and probably 2-3 years old.

My car is diesel

I don't have a strimmer

From a fire insurance point of view it had to be moved

Seem to be able to recycle old 20 notes into beer without external
assistance

Cheers!

Keith




26 Feb 2007 18:49:14
Keith Lewis
Re: Old petrol


"Martin" <me@address.invalid > wrote in message
news:kjm5u2ls2rujfimsp9o135s47s9p01918o@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:19:42 GMT, Ronald Raygun
> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
> wrote:
>
>>Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>>Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>>>> without a problem.
>>>>
>>>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting
>>>>handle.
>>>>
>>>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>>
>>> They are if they are Japanese.
>>
>>They run on vintage sake.
>
> or bonzai green diesel.
>
Bonsai or Banzai ?

Keith




26 Feb 2007 20:53:34
Re: Old petrol

On 26 Feb 2007 13:20:04 GMT, Ian Johnston <ian.groups@btinternet.com >
wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:31:00 +0000, Hugh Browton wrote:
>
>
>> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:35:36 +0000, Martin wrote
>> (in article <4p34u25rcr2gelmdkp8qjbve3o8gpms593@4ax.com>):
>
>>> Why don't you just use it in your outboard?
>
>> Because I was recommended not to.
>
>I suggest you ask whoever recommended (when you first posted it had only
>be "suggested") this to you what the basis of their recommendation is, and
>what evidence they have. What, precisely, do they think happens to petrol
>in a sealed container over a few months?

My experience is with two small modern (ish) jap outboards that would
play up with old petrol (last seasons) but run perfectly with this
seasons. A friend has found the same with his ob also. Hence, I now
change the petrol every season and use the old stuff in car.

Ian


27 Feb 2007 00:04:22
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:49:14 -0000, "Keith Lewis" <keith@speleo.co.uk > wrote:

>
>"Martin" <me@address.invalid> wrote in message
>news:kjm5u2ls2rujfimsp9o135s47s9p01918o@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 12:19:42 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:11:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun
>>>> <no.spam@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>>>>>Martin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We have two cars, one was last filled in October. The engine runs
>>>>>> without a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>And no doubt this is October 1994 you're talking about, and in winter
>>>>>'95/'96 it got so cold the petrol froze solid. Yet in summer '97 it
>>>>>started with no problems at all, on the third turn of the starting
>>>>>handle.
>>>>>
>>>>>Marvellous, these old vintage cars, aren't they?
>>>>
>>>> They are if they are Japanese.
>>>
>>>They run on vintage sake.
>>
>> or bonzai green diesel.
>>
>Bonsai or Banzai ?

If you know how to turn either into green diesel why not?
--

Martin



26 Feb 2007 23:25:34
Andy Champ
Re: Old petrol

Ian Johnston wrote:
> I laid my boat up for five years, and when I recommissioned her the
> Seagull ran perfectly well on two stroke mix which hadbeen sitting in
> tanks all that time.
>
Yes, but that's a seagull, which we all know will run after it's been
under for 3 tides, (and uses 50% oil 50% air in the mixture...)

Better idea: Why lay up for winter? Lovely day's sailing yesterday...

Andy


26 Feb 2007 23:29:37
Andy Champ
Re: Old petrol

Richard wrote:
> I decant and use the old petrol elsewhere (mix with 2-T and use in strimmer)
>
> but
> swill out the last half pint and throw it away.
>
> I just did my tank and washed out some black "grit"
>
> I don't know what it was or how it got there but I'm glad to get rid of it.
>
>
"Severe oxidation of gasoline may produce insoluble, as well as soluble,
gum. The insoluble gum will take the form of brown or black particles
which float in the gasoline or settle to the bottom of the container."

(from the Chevron link that Graham posted. And there was me thinking it
might be rust)

Though I suspect for a 6 month storage in a sealed tank in cold
conditions you shouldn't have much trouble.

Andy


26 Feb 2007 23:39:45
Ronald Raygun
Re: Old petrol

Andy Champ wrote:

> "Severe oxidation of gasoline may produce insoluble, as well as soluble,
> gum. The insoluble gum will take the form of brown or black particles
> which float in the gasoline or settle to the bottom of the container."

And there I was thinking the only way to cause gasoline to become
severely oxidised is to burn it.



27 Feb 2007 00:43:13
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:29:37 +0000, Andy Champ <no.way@nospam.com > wrote:

>Richard wrote:
>> I decant and use the old petrol elsewhere (mix with 2-T and use in strimmer)
>>
>> but
>> swill out the last half pint and throw it away.
>>
>> I just did my tank and washed out some black "grit"
>>
>> I don't know what it was or how it got there but I'm glad to get rid of it.
>>
>>
>"Severe oxidation of gasoline may produce insoluble, as well as soluble,
>gum. The insoluble gum will take the form of brown or black particles
>which float in the gasoline or settle to the bottom of the container."
>
>(from the Chevron link that Graham posted. And there was me thinking it
>might be rust)
>
>Though I suspect for a 6 month storage in a sealed tank in cold
>conditions you shouldn't have much trouble.

The same site says 12 months, which means much more than 12 months, because they
are just trying to cover themselves against legal actions.
--

Martin



27 Feb 2007 01:00:45
Martin
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:39:45 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>Andy Champ wrote:
>
>> "Severe oxidation of gasoline may produce insoluble, as well as soluble,
>> gum. The insoluble gum will take the form of brown or black particles
>> which float in the gasoline or settle to the bottom of the container."
>
>And there I was thinking the only way to cause gasoline to become
>severely oxidised is to burn it.

Is there some scope for a hand in your old petrol and diesel here collection
centre?

I'll split it with you :-)
--

Martin



27 Feb 2007 00:32:24
Ian Johnston
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:53:34 +0000, ian wrote:

> My experience is with two small modern (ish) jap outboards that would
> play up with old petrol (last seasons) but run perfectly with this
> seasons.

Petrol or mix? Stored in the motor or in cans?

Ian


27 Feb 2007 06:43:19
Re: Old petrol

On 27 Feb 2007 00:32:24 GMT, Ian Johnston <ian.groups@btinternet.com >
wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:53:34 +0000, ian wrote:
>
>> My experience is with two small modern (ish) jap outboards that would
>> play up with old petrol (last seasons) but run perfectly with this
>> seasons.
>
>Petrol or mix? Stored in the motor or in cans?

Mixed. Both in motor and plastic can.

Ian


27 Feb 2007 06:44:57
Re: Old petrol

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:25:34 +0000, Andy Champ <no.way@nospam.com >
wrote:

>
>Better idea: Why lay up for winter? Lovely day's sailing yesterday...

I agree. Solent is so much better in the winter. Only saw about 6
boats on Sat.

Ian


27 Feb 2007 18:12:46
Alan Frame
Re: Old petrol

toad <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:

[]
> The idea that petrol in an outboard will somehow significantly 'go
> off' over a winter or even a year is bollocks, but I'd hope we'd all
> be aware that petrol evaporates! Hardly an urban myth.

I kind of agree - see .sig - i've cleaned 'varnish' of carbs before -
but also agree with turning off fuel supply and running carbs dry if
leaving for a while. I also suspect that if an engine is slightly
marginal in other ways - plugs, carb, ignition, etc, then fresh fuel
(like a fresh plug - even if the old one seems to spark) can have a
reviving effect.

rgds, Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5


27 Feb 2007 23:05:44
Ignatios Souvatzis
Re: Old petrol

Martin wrote:

> What you do get with 2 strokes that haven't been used for some time is the
> petrol in the carburetor evaporating leaving the oil behind, clogging the jet
> and preventing the engine starting when the engine hasn't been used for a time.
> I have seen recommendations to drain the carburetor at the end of the season.

I have seen recommendations to drain teh carburetor at the end of the day,
for the same reason.

-is
--
seal your e-mail: http://www.gnupg.org/


27 Feb 2007 22:26:47
Re: Old petrol

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:05:44 +0100, Ignatios Souvatzis
<u502sou@beverly.kleinbus.org > wrote:

>Martin wrote:
>
>> What you do get with 2 strokes that haven't been used for some time is the
>> petrol in the carburetor evaporating leaving the oil behind, clogging the jet
>> and preventing the engine starting when the engine hasn't been used for a time.
>> I have seen recommendations to drain the carburetor at the end of the season.
>
>I have seen recommendations to drain teh carburetor at the end of the day,
>for the same reason.

I drain the carb on every trip. just turn the fuel tap off as
approaching the shore, boat etc.

Ian


28 Feb 2007 01:31:44
toad
Re: Old petrol

On 27 Feb, 18:12, alan.fr...@acm.org (Alan Frame) wrote:
> toad <toad_oftoadh...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> []
>
> > The idea that petrol in an outboard will somehow significantly 'go
> > off' over a winter or even a year is bollocks, but I'd hope we'd all
> > be aware that petrol evaporates! Hardly an urban myth.
>
> I kind of agree - see .sig - i've cleaned 'varnish' of carbs before -
> but also agree with turning off fuel supply and running carbs dry if
> leaving for a while.

For sure. It's a long long while since I've regularly used an outboard
of my own but I always turned the fuel tap off and ran the last bit of
petrol through every time it got used. (I did it because my father
told me that's what you did. I didn't find out why for years.) Same
with motorbikes. I'd be doing it still if my current bikes had a
proper off position instead of stupid vacuum switches.

Can't say I bother with club or charter boat outboards though.

Having said all that I've simply never had any problems and all of my
petrol powered toys have always been used then put away for long
periods. One of my motorbikes got put in the garage in September and
hasn't been used since - I know it will run fine when I use it. Same
with lawnmower same with outboards.