![]() | ![]() |
| 30 Apr 2008 19:31:04 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
NB I have scanned in the entire chapter of Frith's autobiography dealing with the case plus the full coverage in the August 1995 WCM. If anyone wants thse just send me an email and I will post it to you privately 1. The importance Frith gave to the subject can be seen from the fact that he published the article very near the front of the July edition 1995 of WCM - the only things which cam before it were the standard features of Letters and the editorial plus an article by Ashley Mallett. 2. The tremendous effect the response to the article had on Frith can be seen from the fact that he devoted the first 5 pages of the August 1995 issue to the matter: two page sof letters (all hostile despite the fact that Frith said publicly on R5 before the August issue was out that his postbag was 50/50 for and against what I had said), Frith's apology and editorial plus articles by Brearley and Gower. He refused me any opportunity to reply. Here are Frith's apolgy and editorial from the August 1995 edition: EDIT0IAL NEVER IN ITS HISTORY HAS WCM HAD SUCH A VIGOROUS RESPONSE TO A FEATURE AS TO ROBERT HENDERSON’S ARTICLE LAST MONTH. A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE OF THE HUGE MAILBAG APPEARS ON PAGES 4 AND 6. STATEMENT BY THE EDITOR OF WCM (Circularised by the Press Association on July 7) Re the article by Robert Henderson (‘Is It In the Blood?’) in the July edition of Wisden Cricket Monthly: After a week of intensive media and public interest, much of it expressing condemnation both of the content of the article and at the fact that it was published in the first place, I now acknowledge that it was an error of judgment on my part to have accepted it for publication. I tried all along to make it clear that I did not support the majority of the sentiments expressed by Mr Henderson (and a paragraph on page 1 of each issue of the magazine supports this). But I also believed that it was an editor’s responsibility to tackle difficult issues, to bring them into the open so that solutions might be found. My particular hope in respect of this article was that the plight of foreign-born cricketers in this country and those with immigrant parents — whether from West Indies, Australasia, southern Africa or Asia — might be better understood when their difficulties were considered. Publication of this particular article was, I now realise, not the best way to have gone about it. The national-identity element was drowned out. I had hoped that the article would be a springboard for beneficial debate, but have been deeply disappointed at distortions in certain sections of the media. To that end, Wisden’s legal advisors continue to monitor the position. My unreserved apologies are extended to all whose sensibilities have been offended by the article. I cannot be held responsible, however, for coverage of the matter elsewhere. I wish to make it clear that no member of the Editorial Board (except my deputy editor) of Wisden Cricket Monthly was aware, prior to publication, of the article’s inclusion. Who needs ancestors? ONE OF AN EDITOR’S key duties is to confront issues that matter. Another is to honour Voltaire’s famous ‘I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it.’ Another of that peerlessly perceptive Frenchman’s remarks — never more topical than now — was: ‘Whoever serves his country well has no need of ancestors.’ Robert Henderson’s article ‘Is It In the Blood?’ (WCM July) did not place a question-mark beside foreign-born England cricketers. It was already there. Reservations have rumbled around the cricket grounds and in the sports columns of the newspapers for several years. It was time to spotlight these misgivings and wherever possible to dismiss them, so that cricketers, and other sportsmen, could be cleansed of suspicion about commitment. Among the otiose but nonetheless widespread reactions to the Henderson article were the strident challenges to anybody to deny that this or that foreign-born player was giving anything other than ‘110 per cent’ when he batted for hours against a fiery West Indian attack or took 9 for 57 against South Africa. Who, in his right mind, could ever have entertained doubts about such performances? The aim was to launch a constructive debate. Instead, a whirlwind was generated, perhaps caused almost as much by the somewhat cold nature of Mr Henderson’s language as by the fact that many of his suppositions caused outrage. Much of the outrage was unquestionably sincere and some of it was of the kind that scarcely warranted serious consideration: like the outburst on BBC Radio 5’s phone-in by a man who began by saying, ‘I haven’t read this rubbish, but. . .‘ Elsewhere, there was distortion in certain areas of the media. Eventually, the hysteria made way for the intended sensible discussion in some sections of the media in the UK and elsewhere. Were some foreign-born cricketers occasionally afflicted by emotional conflict? It began to be recognised as a compassionate question. A letter in The Guardian from a black English-born lawyer spoke volumes: ‘I have no significant connections with any other country and yet I do not feel that I belong here,’ he wrote, before outlining the causes of this feeling of non- acceptance. Public anger should be focused on the fact that a devoted citizen of this country has always been made to feel like an alien. The letter’s heading refers unerringly to ‘a nation ill at ease’. The correspondent concludes: ‘Unlike the US and South Africa, where all inhabitants (black or white) feel a sense of belonging, this country is still tainted by the effects of its colonial history. White immigrants gain instantaneous acceptance; British-born descendants of black immigrants never will.’ His pessimism is the challenge that cricket can pick up and address. Cricket was a catalyst for reform in South Africa. Why not here? Why, then, the apology (see alongside) by WCM’s Editor? It was issued because so many readers have been genuinely upset by the Henderson article. Beyond those who specifically reject the Henderson claims and questions are those who have been upset by Press comment, much of which shifted the grounds for debate from national identity exclusively to race. Many of these people have to this day not read the original article either carefully or at all. Their views are as unsound as those of the spectators who jump to the conclusion that when an overseas-born England cricketer has a bad day in the field it can only be because he is burdened by the distractions of divided loyalties and background. Among the wiser words that followed the initial storm came these from Lord Deedes: ‘It is cosmopolitanism, not colour, which dilutes loyalty.’ And Mike Brearley: ‘Someone who feels excluded may have stronger (our italics) motivation to prove himself in a host (and sometimes hostile) society. The chIp on the shoulder may enhance as well as hinder performance.’ Worthy of Voltaire. August 1995 WISDEN Cricket Monthly 3. Here is the paragraph quoted previously from a letter Frith sent me ? March 1994: "Let me just assure you that I was one of the earliest to feel a sense of unease at the number of foreign players piling into the England XI. It's hard to separate oneself from the personal side of it all I know all of them - even the reclusive Caddick - and like them almost without exception. But the principle seems wrong, and I think that their has been some sort of dislocation in the national psyche. How can a true Englishman ever see this as his representative side despite all the chat about the commitment of the immigrant?" This was in response to this letter: 22-March 1994 David Frith (Editor) Tel: 071/387/5018 Wisden Cricket Monthly 6 Beech Lane Guildown Guildford Surrey GU2 5ES Dear Mr Frith, The present humiliating shambles in the West Indies prompts me to try once more to get you to publish 'The trouble with England'. I will make any amendments you think necessary. Never think that I am insensible of the difficulties confronting an editor in the current climate when broaching a subject which can be represented as racist or that I under value your courage in publishing 'A fundamental malaise'. But if no one addresses this matter forthrightly in public, county cricket will continue to be littered with interlopers and England teams will continue to make a mockery of the idea of national sides whilst losing horribly, and that, I suspect, will sadden you as much as it does me, because you have so much of the game's history in your head. Ask yourself how you would view an Australian side largely comprised of South Africans, Asians, West Indians and New Zealanders. What I find especially depressing is that England are losing consistently when the general standard of Test cricket is low. Who amongst current Test players is great in the sense that, for example, Sobers, Truman, Miller and Laker were great? Ambrose and Waqar undoubtedly but who else? Crowe and Wasim perhaps. Warne, Lara and Tendulkar in the future? Possibly, but that's about it. The West Indies illustrate the poverty of talent well. Only four current players - Haynes, Richardson, Lara and Ambrose - would probably have made the great West Indies sides from 1976 to 1984. The rest are no more than journeymen. Yet England look beaten before they take the field. Dear God, if they cannot play mediocrities like the Benjamins, who can they play? As for Walsh being a fire-breathing fast bowling terror, one does not know whether to laugh or cry. The man was never a genuine express and at the age of thirty one is not as consistently quick as he was. But even at his fastest, I would not put his pace as greater than, say, Alan Brown or Butch White. What on earth would these be-helmeted, bumperbra-ed, forearm guarded and generally padded gentry have done if they had had to face Adcock and Heine in 1955, Hall and Griffith in 1963 or Roberts, Holding and Daniel in 1976, equipped with no more than pads, gloves, a box and thigh pads? (Probably a good deal better than they do against the present pace bowling, actually. Protective clothing, especially helmets, makes batsmen careless about being hit. I also have the impression that a helmet changes the stance and movements of a batsman. It may also affect their field of vision). Colin Croft put the matter in perspective after Hick's second innings dismissal in Guyana. What, he asked, was a man batting at number five for England doing backing away to square leg (from fear of being hit) after being struck once by a fast medium bowler? Effectively, England's tail begins after Atherton, Stewart and Smith. (It reminds me irresistibly of Leicestershire in the early sixties when their tail began after Hallam, Wharton and Watson). Worse, this was entirely predictable before the team left England. Hick's selection I can only describe as cretinous. Not only did the selectors have the evidence of the previous two years that he cannot play the short pitched ball, he gave ample indication of this in the Oval Test just prior to the touring side's selection. Weak as English cricket is at the moment, I think a considerably stronger touring side could have been selected from unequivocally English players. Try these seventeen for size. Atherton, Stewart, Broad, Gower, John Morris, John Crawley, Alistair Brown (the most naturally talented English batsman since Gower, I think), Peter Johnson (remember his success in the West Indies with the A team), Keith Brown (a much improved keeper who has the advantage of keeping regularly to two good spinners and a genuine middle order bat. I am no Russell fan. He persistently has horrendous lapses of concentration), Salisbury, Udal (a more attacking bowler than Such, with bounce coming from his height and a high action, good powers of spin and plenty of variety. He looks consistently difficult), Jarvis, Millns, Gough (these three to provide pace), Fraser, Cork, Ilott (had I been selecting last September I should have chosen Bicknell instead of Ilott). Lastly, I send you a piece prompted by Frank Tyson's 'English cricket's Adverse balance of trade'. From the sounds made by the TCCB one might imagine that there is some legal barrier to tightening the rules. In fact there is precious little if any legal reason to prevent such action. (The only possible problem might arise with EEC citizens if the British government failed to make it a matter of policy. However, as failure to do so would affect not only cricket but all other representative groups, I think it unlikely). My best wishes Yours sincerely, Robert Henderson ? The interesting thing to note is the fact that he was responding to my article The trouble with England - this I have posted in a separate thread. This made the same points as Is it in the blood? Which was based on the article and dealt in greater detail and more explicitly with the racial question. Frith can have been in no doubt what my views were. You will also see that that I flagged the risk of shouts of racism in my letter and despite this Frith went ahead. Ergo, he was extremely keen to have the subject aired. 4. It was more than two years before I began to be critical of Frith . He had behaved contemptibly towards me by committing the greatest crime an editor can commit, namely, disowning one of his contributors after material which he had decided to print caused uproar. I refrained from attacking him because he had become genuinely frightened and had lost his job, which I know meant the world to him. Then he published his autobiography Caught England Bowled Australia when he not only repeated the lie that he had not supported my views but attempted to give the impression that I had hidden from the media when the storm broke, viz: . "Robert Henderson,, the author (who had previously had letters published in the Sunday Telegraph and, this very month, in The Cricketer, was all but invisible and inaudible through all the uproar. It would have been so different had a leading and accessible writer penned the article. Instead, I, as editor, was taking a double blast, and the perception eventually became so ludicrously blurred that I was considered by some of the more careless as having been the actual author. " Of course, Frith knew that I had made the most strenuous attempts to gain a public voice and had been thwarted by a blanket censorship, a censorship in which he contemptibly joined by refusing to publish my reply to the criticism in the August 1995 WCM. My unpublished reply is in a separate thread. He also, quite absurdly in view of the response the article generated, attempted to represent my article as boring, viz: "I was subsequently told by many readers that this next article, in the July issue, was ‘boring’ or ‘unattractive’; some of them gave up on it halfway. " Interestingly, he wrote this about the claims of racism: "It seemed preposterous. No-one who had seen the article prior to publication had questioned it. My deputy editor, Steven Lynch, had included an article by Henderson in the February WCM while I was in Australia. Now, Steven rang me merely to discuss which illustrations should accompany the piece, since he was now making up the pages. Who got a mention in the article? Geoff Greenidge. Right. I had a picture of him here. Phillip DeFreitas: Steven had a good Eagar of him on his desk. OK. Let’s use that. Room for any others? Seemingly not. "The general manager, Chris Lane, customarily looked at the page-proofs as each edition built up. But he made no attempt now to query anything. And, not least significantly, there was no objection or query from the printers, who had been quick to object to the contents of a letter from the writer Geoffrey Moorhouse, which was due for inclusion in our November 1994 edition, headed ‘Pompous Benaud’. The managing director of the printers felt it needed diluting, and revised wording was agreed — to the subsequent fury of the author of the letter. "For over 20 years I had been fully aware that among my countless no responsibilities was the need to guard against libelling anybody. Perhaps as only those who have undertaken similar duties could fully understand the weight of this when balanced against the desire to protect freedom of expression in an apparently ‘free’ country. The outcome of this Henderson article was absolutely beyond prediction, and suggests quite forcibly that free speech in Britain is being driven underground. " As can be seen from my letter of 22 3 1994, this was nonsense because I had warned him of the danger. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 07:38:00 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in news:6mcuM8ZorLGIFw$9@anywhere.demon.co.uk: > NB I have scanned in the entire chapter of Frith's autobiography > dealing with the case plus the full coverage in the August 1995 WCM. > If anyone wants thse just send me an email and I will post it to you > privately A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 10:21:48 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <Xns9A9157D76A0DArdngemailyahoocouk@62.253.170.163 >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in >news:6mcuM8ZorLGIFw$9@anywhere.demon.co.uk: > >> NB I have scanned in the entire chapter of Frith's autobiography >> dealing with the case plus the full coverage in the August 1995 WCM. >> If anyone wants thse just send me an email and I will post it to you >> privately > >A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. > >Richard Bigoted refusal to address the scandal noted. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 11:34:02 |
| Toby |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <Xns9A9157D76A0DArdngemailyahoocouk@62.253.170.163>, Richard > Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk> writes >> Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in >> news:6mcuM8ZorLGIFw$9@anywhere.demon.co.uk: >> >>> NB I have scanned in the entire chapter of Frith's autobiography >>> dealing with the case plus the full coverage in the August 1995 WCM. >>> If anyone wants thse just send me an email and I will post it to you >>> privately >> >> A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. >> >> Richard > > Bigoted refusal to address the scandal noted. RH You must have the largest pile of "notes" in the world Robert - surely you in your old age can't remember ALL of this comments <inserts sarcastic wink > ;-) </inserts sarcastic wink> |
| 01 May 2008 04:12:58 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
On 1 May, 10:21, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > >A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. > > >Richard > > Bigoted refusal to address the scandal noted. RH Self-styled "Scandal" - guffaw! So sad. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 14:03:41 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <68435d8b-2c43-4d91-ac46-6044b1274258@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >On 1 May, 10:21, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> >A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. >> >> >Richard >> >> Bigoted refusal to address the scandal noted. RH > >Self-styled "Scandal" - guffaw! So sad. > >Richard > Status quo. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 08:26:25 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
On 1 May, 14:03, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > Status quo. RH Says the man who has posted the same article 4 times on here. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 17:30:15 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <5c1621e8-9956-498f-93f7-07385ab00b31@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >On 1 May, 14:03, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> Status quo. RH > >Says the man who has posted the same article 4 times on here. > Translation: unable to understand the need to post an article which is cited. RH >Richard -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 19:28:01 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in news:dNjX2PlXAfGIFwYG@anywhere.demon.co.uk: >>Says the man who has posted the same article 4 times on here. >> > Translation: unable to understand the need to post an article which is > cited. RH Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" and you'll find uk.sport.cricket littered with your desperate bedsit polemic. How sad. Richard |
| 02 May 2008 05:57:20 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <Xns9A91D11D3300Drdngemailyahoocouk@80.5.182.99 >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in >news:dNjX2PlXAfGIFwYG@anywhere.demon.co.uk: > >>>Says the man who has posted the same article 4 times on here. >>> >> Translation: unable to understand the need to post an article which is >> cited. RH > >Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" Bab manners to expect people to Google in response to something one has posted. Rh > and you'll find uk.sport.cricket littered with your desperate bedsit >polemic. How sad. Bigoted refusal to address the real issue continues to be noted. Rh -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 09:28:20 |
| Toby |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <Xns9A91D11D3300Drdngemailyahoocouk@80.5.182.99>, Richard > Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk> writes >> Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in >> news:dNjX2PlXAfGIFwYG@anywhere.demon.co.uk: >> >>>> Says the man who has posted the same article 4 times on here. >>>> >>> Translation: unable to understand the need to post an article which is >>> cited. RH >> >> Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" > > > Bab manners to expect people to Google in response to something one has > posted. Rh > HAHAHAHAHAHAHA - and yet you sent me googling yourself with regards the thread where you confused Scotty Newman and Michael Carberry!!! |
| 02 May 2008 02:49:03 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
On 2 May, 05:57, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > >Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" > > Bab manners to expect people to Google in response to something one has > posted. Rh Bad manners? Hilarious. Why have you kept posting the same articles all the time? I'd call that Bad Manners. Mixed with attention-seeking. > > and you'll find uk.sport.cricket littered with your desperate bedsit > >polemic. How sad. > > Bigoted refusal =A0to address the real issue continues to be noted. Rh No - *your* real issue. Not *the* real issue. A small but very obvious difference. Richard |
| 02 May 2008 10:14:55 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <SZednWCsl-04TYfVnZ2dnUVZ8s_inZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>> >>> Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" >> Bab manners to expect people to Google in response to something one >>has posted. Rh >> > >HAHAHAHAHAHAHA - and yet you sent me googling yourself with regards the >thread where you confused Scotty Newman and Michael Carberry!!! Sigh. That was because I was not the one who cited the Google post, young BLF. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 12:12:08 |
| Toby |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <SZednWCsl-04TYfVnZ2dnUVZ8s_inZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>> >>>> Err no, do a little google groups search for "The trouble with England" >>> Bab manners to expect people to Google in response to something one >>> has posted. Rh >>> >> >> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA - and yet you sent me googling yourself with regards >> the thread where you confused Scotty Newman and Michael Carberry!!! > > > Sigh. That was because I was not the one who cited the Google post, > young BLF. RH > But I still went googling that thread, and still found absolutely NO post from you regarding Scotty's parentage and upbringing! Sigh, poor old deluded SOF. |
| 02 May 2008 12:17:05 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
In message <b28e3499-63ff-4d20-bdf2-1e1a7eab5114@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes > >Bad manners? Hilarious. Why have you kept posting the same articles all >the time? I'd call that Bad Manners. Mixed with attention-seeking. > >> > and you'll find uk.sport.cricket littered with your desperate bedsit >> >polemic. How sad. >> >> Bigoted refusal to address the real issue continues to be noted. Rh > >No - *your* real issue. Not *the* real issue. A small but very obvious >difference. > >Richard Bigoted refusal to address the real issue continues to be noted. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 23:05:13 |
| Colin Reed |
| Re: Frith and Is it in the blood? - Time for Rodney to have plastic surgery and assume a false name |
"Toby" <toby.briggs@gmail.com > wrote in message news:trSdndbDspEGAYTVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com... > Robert Henderson wrote: >> In message <Xns9A9157D76A0DArdngemailyahoocouk@62.253.170.163>, Richard >> Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk> writes >>> Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in >>> news:6mcuM8ZorLGIFw$9@anywhere.demon.co.uk: >>> >>>> NB I have scanned in the entire chapter of Frith's autobiography >>>> dealing with the case plus the full coverage in the August 1995 WCM. >>>> If anyone wants thse just send me an email and I will post it to you >>>> privately >>> >>> A sad lifetime of obsession. Move on, Robert. >>> >>> Richard >> >> Bigoted refusal to address the scandal noted. RH > > You must have the largest pile of "notes" in the world Robert - surely you > in your old age can't remember ALL of this comments <inserts sarcastic > wink> ;-) </inserts sarcastic wink> "Your name is also going on the list. Vot is it?" "Don't tell him, Pike!" |