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| 30 Apr 2008 19:32:26 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
The volume of the criticism and the exigences of space make it impossible for me to address most of the points raised in the August issue. Consequently I shall concentrate my fire on the article contributors, Mike Brearley and David Gower, and two of the letter writers, Adrian Rollins and David Hammond, who raise points of particular interest. But before I do that let me offer a few comments about the subject in general and the article in particular. My purpose in writing was not to give gratuitous offence, but to raise subjects which for an unconscionable time have been placed beyond the reach of coherent public debate. Nor is a refusal to discuss them in the long term interests of blacks and Asians. Suppression of opinion may, like appeasement, be a tactic, but it can never be a strategy for it merely puts off an evil day. It is an extraordinary fact that many cricket commentators, including the editor of Wisden, have spoken and written against the employment of immigrant players by England without provoking a storm. Indeed, the remarks made by Mathew Engel in this year's Wisden are arguably more categoric than anything I have written. As for the article's content, nowhere have I stated categorically that either coloured players in general do suffer, or any coloured player in particular has suffered, from a lack of commitment. I have merely suggested it as a possibility. My reference to Lewis and DeFreitas '...why players such as DeFreitas and Lewis should not share the mentality he [Goodwin] ascribes to the general West Indian-derived population' is not a categoric statement of my own belief but a reasonable point arising from the discrepancy between Goodwin's claims of disaffection and his assertion that 'surely no one would doubt that the players [England caps of West Indian Ancestry] are proud to represent England'. The article queried the commitment not only of coloured players but also that of white mercenaries such as Lamb and unequivocal Englishmen: '...perhaps even some of the unequivocally English players lack a sense of pride in playing for England.' Whatever the cause, there is firm statistical evidence to support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform well. [insert table]. As can be seen from the table the overall performance of black and Asian England players since 1975 has been consistently poor. I invite readers to offer their explanations of why every single black and Asian player selected for England in the past twenty years has failed to make the Test grade. To particular critics. Mr Rollins asked what do I know about "Brixton, Hackney or any inner-city area heavily populated by black people? The answer is a great deal. I have lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This experience has encompassed both South and North London. (I currently live close to where the white schoolboy, Richard Everitt was murdered by a gang of Asians.) Moreover, I have the invaluable experience (denied to most) of years of work as an Inland Revenue investigator in areas of substantial black and Asian settlement. This alone has provided me with a range and quantity of coloured contacts incomparably greater than any white man could achieve in a private capacity. But my relevant experience does not end there for I also know the middle class side of the black and Asian coin, having been at a private school and a university which were both extremely mixed in race and culture. I wonder how many of my white critics could match my practical knowledge of blacks and Asians? Mr Brearley living in I believe Hampstead? Mr Gower comfortably ensconced in the countryside? As for Mr Rollins' concern about my drawing attention to the racial imbalance of the Haringey college run by Reg Scarlett, this imbalance is of obvious importance to my case, for the absence of white pupils demonstrates prima facie the separatist tendencies of blacks. A further dimension arises because the college receives public money. Imagine the outcry if few or no blacks and Asians attended a publicly funded college in a very racially mixed area. Moreover, this outcry probably would be headed by Mr Scarlett who is vociferous in his claims that blacks and Asians do not get a fair crack of the cricketing whip in the English first class game (this despite the fact that coloured players form more than ten percent of the first class county groundstaffs, a percentage which greatly exceeds their proportion of the population - approx 6%). The absence of adverse media comment over the years about the racial imbalance of the Haringey college is beautifully indicative of the one-eyed attitude taken to race in this country by both politicians and those who control the media. The first point to note about Mike Brearley is that he is not a disinterested party, being married to an Asian. Hence, he could scarcely be expected to say anything other than he has. His mentality may be judged by the fact that he actually invents an excuse for parading his liberal credentials by saying that his ambivalence at times about his commitment to this country may "as he [Henderson] suggests, arise from guilt." Nowhere in the article did I say or imply that home raised whites fail to commit themselves to England because of guilt. I merely pointed out that incessant denigration of their culture and history could demoralise some Englishmen. Mr Brearley claims that I am confused in my use of the words blood, instinct and biology. In fact, nowhere do I refer to blood. I submitted the article to David Frith under the heading 'Racism and national identity'. The title 'Is it in the blood?' is the editor's. As for instinct and biology, Mr Brearley really should understand (because of his philosophical training)) that some words have both a common use and a technical or academic use. I sincerely doubt whether many readers honestly thought that I meant anything by biology and instinct other than a loyalty so inbred by cultural conditioning that it becomes second nature. But even from Mr Brearley's academic standpoint there are difficulties with the words for both are man-made constructs and consequently subject to redefinition and interpretation, particularly by academics. The intellectual history of instinct is that it has moved from a simple idea of innate behaviour instilled by God (e.g. Descartes) through the idea of instinct as a 'prime mover' (e.g. Freud) onto the genetically determined (e.g. Lorenz) before rather going out of favour at the present time, which if it examines the matter at all tends to do so with the intention of untangling the innate, reflex and motivational aspects of apparently instinctive behaviour rather than searching for a single grand explanation. Mr Brearley's concept of biology as a nicely separated subject excluding mental and sociological events is simply a result of the rigid intellectual compartmentalisation which has been the curse of western thought for at least a century. Unless a man wishes to deny a causal linkage between mind and body, for example, the production of the hormone adrenaline in circumstances of heightened awareness, it necessarily follows that a man's mental and social life is the product of his material existence. Hence, in a general sense everything a man does is biological. Where, I wonder, would Mr Brearley place the study of animal behaviour? As part of biology or outside biology? If inside, why should the study of human behaviour be then excluded? Certainly, there is no academic consensus that human behaviour should be excluded from biology. Edward Wilson's famous 'Sociobiology' makes this very point. As for David Gower, readers may judge his confidence in his own arguments by the fact that when I wrote to him offering to appear on his Radio 5 programme to debate the matter, I did not even receive the courtesy of a reply. Mr Gower proceeded to "discuss" the question on air without a single word in my support being uttered. (This, I believe, is what the BBC terms "balance".) But there is vastly more to Mr Gower's position than meets the eye. Four years ago I circulated an article, which David Frith published as 'A fundamental malaise', to many prominent cricketers and cricket correspondents. This piece stated my objections to foreign players in the England side in no uncertain terms. Readers unfamiliar with the article may get an idea of its flavour from a short quote: "The qualification for England should be the same as that which I would consider a sane basis for the citizenship of any country, namely the imbibing of a culture". Mr Gower wrote to me that 'A fundamental malaise' contained "very keen observations" and said that he was sure my "points [the ill effects of foreigners in the England side] must certainly be relevant". Readers may wish to ask themselves whether Mr Gower has since undergone a Pauline conversion or has decided that his media career is more important than his beliefs. (He would, of course, become a non-person as far as the media is concerned if he stuck to his beliefs). The sincerity of his present outrage may be judged by the fact that he wrote to me between the publication of 'A fundamental malaise' and 'Is it in the blood?' thanking me warmly for writing an article in his defence. In other words, I did not become persona non grata with Mr Gower until the media howling began after the publishing of 'Is it in the blood'? David Hammond is worth a mention as an example of the substitute-abuse-for-argument school of critic. He writes "nobody with even a modicum of knowledge or intelligence can refer to the 'myth' of oppression and exploitation." In fact, the manner in which slavery and colonialism are both taught in British schools and portrayed in the media is mythical, for the presentation is so partial that all hope of an honest understanding of the subjects is lost. For example, the British slave trade is taken out of its historical context, depicted as uniquely evil regardless of the fact that most societies at most times have practised some form of legal or customary unfreedom whether it be full blown chattel slavery, serfdom, debt bondage, indenturing or a caste system, the necessary complicity of black slave dealers is ignored or explained as white corruption of naturally decent blacks and the primary role taken by the British in the suppression of slavery generally might as well never have happened for all the attention it gets. As for my claim that camaraderie is best generated within a team of like individuals, it is unreasonable to dismiss out of hand the suggestion that a man's race or culture may have an effect on the social dynamics of groups. At the spine of human social behaviour lies a very strong bias in choosing companions. Human beings select their associates, when given the chance, by a form of selection known as assortative. (Most mammals also practise such selection when choosing a mate) This is an ugly piece of jargon which means in plain English that like tends to go to like. Overwhelmingly people choose mates and friends who resemble themselves in matters such as race, physical type, culture, education and class. One of the strongest causes of selection is physical race. Assortative selection alone is a massive potential barrier to the development of team spirit in a mixed side. Nationality, in the emotional rather than legal sense, is not something which can be put on and taken off like a coat. It is a fearsomely intricate product of social experience, part of which is the response of others. Qualifications based on legal definitions of nationality, birth or residence are practically irrelevant in the context of national sporting teams, for the emotional commitment and sense of oneness, which are an essential part of a successful national side, cannot be gained so mechanically. And that is often true even where a conscious decision to emigrate permanently has been made by a player's parents. A sense of national place is demonstrably not simply derived from living in a country - as Wellington said to those who insisted on calling him an Irishman, 'Just because a man is born in a stable it does not make him a horse.' The concerted media attempt to shout me down is not merely shameful but positively dangerous, for if free expression may be denied to one man it may be denied to any man. It is time to end the "anti-racist" shouting and begin honestly addressing painful realities. One thing needs to be understood above all: you may have a multicultural state, but you cannot have a multicultural nation. It is an oxymoron. Let me end with a quote from Milton which I think should be pinned to all editors desks and engraved on all men's minds: ' ... though all the winds of doctrine were let loose upon the earth, so truth be in the field [and] we do injuriously by licensing and prohibiting to misdoubt her strength. Let her and falsehood grapple; who ever knew truth put to the worse, in a free and open encounter...' (Areogapitica) -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 07:35:41 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: <snip > I have > lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult > life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This > experience has encompassed both South and North London. <snip > Moving into London at 18 years old - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the upbringing! |
| 01 May 2008 02:13:12 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 30 Apr, 19:32, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 As =A0for =A0the =A0article's =A0content, =A0 nowhere = =A0have =A0I =A0 stated > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 categorically =A0that =A0either coloured players =A0in= =A0general =A0do > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 suffer, =A0 or any =A0coloured player in particular ha= s suffered, > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 from =A0a lack of commitment. =A0I have merely suggest= ed it as =A0a > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 possibility. Good, let's leaving hanging there and then we can all move on rather than continually digging it up. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 08:33:26 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >Robert Henderson wrote: ><snip> > I have >> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult >> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This >> experience has encompassed both South and North London. ><snip> > >Moving into London at 18 years old 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at Loughborough. RH >- you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you have >moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the >upbringing! I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding of sociology and psychology.... RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 10:39:37 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >> Robert Henderson wrote: >> <snip> >> I have >>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult >>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This >>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >> <snip> >> >> Moving into London at 18 years old > > 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at > Loughborough. RH Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. > >> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you >> have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the >> upbringing! > > I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to > comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding of > sociology and psychology.... RH Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the meaning of a piss take. |
| 01 May 2008 03:05:12 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 1 May, 10:39, Toby <toby.bri...@gmail.com > wrote: > Robert Henderson wrote: > > In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3in...@giganews.com>, Toby > > <toby.bri...@gmail.com> writes > >> Robert Henderson wrote: > >> <snip> > >> I have > >>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult > >>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This > >>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. > >> <snip> > > >> Moving into London at 18 years old > > > 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at > > Loughborough. RH > > Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. > > > > >> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you > >> have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the > >> upbringing! > > > I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to > > comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding of > > sociology and psychology.... RH > > Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. > > Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the > meaning of a piss take. Ah the "only joking ploy" yet again ;o) |
| 01 May 2008 11:25:41 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Gavin Cawley wrote: > On 1 May, 10:39, Toby <toby.bri...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Robert Henderson wrote: >>> In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3in...@giganews.com>, Toby >>> <toby.bri...@gmail.com> writes >>>> Robert Henderson wrote: >>>> <snip> >>>> I have >>>>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult >>>>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This >>>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >>>> <snip> >>>> Moving into London at 18 years old >>> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at >>> Loughborough. RH >> Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. >> >> >> >>>> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you >>>> have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the >>>> upbringing! >>> I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to >>> comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding of >>> sociology and psychology.... RH >> Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. >> >> Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the >> meaning of a piss take. > > Ah the "only joking ploy" yet again ;o) > lol! It's sad isn't it - I thought I did well to work out that he was (c.) 18 when he moved to London! I used my fingers AND toes to work that one out. It is sad that an educated man has to retort to the "uneducated" <his view > so much! I guess he doesn't get out much. |
| 01 May 2008 04:09:14 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 1, 11:25 am, Toby <toby.bri...@gmail.com > wrote: > Gavin Cawley wrote: > > On 1 May, 10:39, Toby <toby.bri...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Robert Henderson wrote: > >>> In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3in...@giganews.com>, Toby > >>> <toby.bri...@gmail.com> writes > >>>> Robert Henderson wrote: > >>>> <snip> > >>>> I have > >>>>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult > >>>>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This > >>>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. > >>>> <snip> > >>>> Moving into London at 18 years old > >>> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at > >>> Loughborough. RH > >> Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. > > >>>> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you > >>>> have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the > >>>> upbringing! > >>> I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to > >>> comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding of > >>> sociology and psychology.... RH > >> Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. > > >> Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the > >> meaning of a piss take. > > > Ah the "only joking ploy" yet again ;o) > > lol! It's sad isn't it - I thought I did well to work out that he was > (c.) 18 when he moved to London! I used my fingers AND toes to work that > one out. > > It is sad that an educated man has to retort to the "uneducated" <his > view> so much! I guess he doesn't get out much. Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least twice ;o) |
| 01 May 2008 12:32:00 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Gavin Cawley wrote: > Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on > the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least > twice ;o) Funny thing is because he couldn't answer it properly, he had to resort to my failings as a student! Am I bovvered?! heh |
| 01 May 2008 05:15:36 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 1 May, 12:32, Toby <toby.bri...@gmail.com > wrote: > Gavin Cawley wrote: > > Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on > > the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least > > twice ;o) > > Funny thing is because he couldn't answer it properly, he had to resort > to my failings as a student! Nobody's perfect. Although I know someone who thinks he is. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 11:54:48 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <4ZOdncrKV6xEEoTVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >Robert Henderson wrote: >> In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby >><toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>> Robert Henderson wrote: >>> <snip> >>> I have >>>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult >>>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This >>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >>> <snip> >>> >>> Moving into London at 18 years old >> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at >>Loughborough. RH > >Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. > >> Treats Wipedia, the font of all misinformation, as gospel. ROTFL! RH >>> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you >>>have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the >>>upbringing! >> I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to >>comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding >>sociology and psychology.... RH > >Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. > >Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the >meaning of a piss take. Ah, the old "I was only joking" line. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 05:53:37 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 1, 11:54 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message <4ZOdncrKV6xEEoTVnZ2dneKdnZzin...@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.bri...@gmail.com> writes > > >Robert Henderson wrote: > >> In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3in...@giganews.com>, Toby > >><toby.bri...@gmail.com> writes > >>> Robert Henderson wrote: > >>> <snip> > >>> I have > >>>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my adult > >>>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). This > >>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. > >>> <snip> > > >>> Moving into London at 18 years old > >> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at > >>Loughborough. RH > > >Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. > > Treats Wipedia, the font of all misinformation, as gospel. ROTFL! RH > > >>> - you obviously haven't had the same upbringing Robert ;-) Had you > >>>have moved to London when you were say 5 or 6 - you may have had the > >>>upbringing! > >> I realise that a Bsc Loughborough (failed) mind will not be able to > >>comprehend the idea of a nation or have an instinctive understanding > >>sociology and psychology.... RH > > >Erm Robert - the ;-) meant it was a piss take. > > >Note to self - sad old fart Robert Henderson does not understand the > >meaning of a piss take. > > Ah, the old "I was only joking" line. RH ROTFLMAO, well who could have predicted that response? Oh yes, I did! ;o) |
| 01 May 2008 14:13:08 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <4ZOdncrKV6xEEoTVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >> Robert Henderson wrote: >>> In message <u-mdnXRmCoBV-YTVnZ2dnUVZ8v3inZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby >>> <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>> Robert Henderson wrote: >>>> <snip> >>>> I have >>>>> lived and worked in such districts for most of my >>>>> adult >>>>> life. (I am 47 and first came to London in 1965). >>>>> This >>>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>> Moving into London at 18 years old >>> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at >>> Loughborough. RH >> >> Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. >> >>> > Treats Wipedia, the font of all misinformation, as gospel. ROTFL! RH > So then Robert - what year were you born in? And I'm sure you'll go and change things and say you were born in 1948 to prove yourself right! |
| 01 May 2008 14:02:04 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <33f13252-eaa0-4162-b1f2-9a8dc8e2f836@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >, Gavin Cawley <GavinCawley@googlemail.com > writes >> one out. >> >> It is sad that an educated man has to retort to the "uneducated" <his >> view> so much! I guess he doesn't get out much. > >Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on the >passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least twice >;o) "Prepare the padded cell, nurse." RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 14:02:48 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <S-WdnazVBoqsN4TVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >Gavin Cawley wrote: > >> Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on >> the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least >> twice ;o) > >Funny thing is because he couldn't answer it properly, he had to resort >to my failings as a student! > >Am I bovvered?! heh Deeply. You know you were tested and found wanting. . RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 14:03:06 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <a1355f24-15ce-4d1e-a5f2-96c28497f2b2@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >> > the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least >> > twice ;o) >> >> Funny thing is because he couldn't answer it properly, he had to resort >> to my failings as a student! > >Nobody's perfect. Although I know someone who thinks he is. > >Richard Do stop gazing in the mirror. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 15:46:01 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <S-WdnazVBoqsN4TVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >> Gavin Cawley wrote: >> >>> Especially as you have been running rings around him, especially on >>> the passport issue where you had him reversing his position at least >>> twice ;o) >> >> Funny thing is because he couldn't answer it properly, he had to >> resort to my failings as a student! >> >> Am I bovvered?! heh > > Deeply. You know you were tested and found wanting. . RH You're pretty far from the truth, am not bothered at all. Just because I didn't want to give you full details for why I failed, you decided to make your own conclusions. Only you will believe them, so as long as your happy with your own conclusions, then that's good. Is it the truth? No. |
| 01 May 2008 08:40:39 |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with Frith's not publishing you. |
| 01 May 2008 09:02:22 |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 1, 5:40 pm, I wrote: > That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? > You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views I refer, of course, to those expressed in "Is it in the blood". > with Frith's not publishing you. Evoe, Rodney Ulyate |
| 01 May 2008 15:29:47 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <f473a3f5-bb10-4bb7-9394-0a609c33a469@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com >, Gavin Cawley <GavinCawley@googlemail.com > writes >> >> Ah, the old "I was only joking" line. RH > >ROTFLMAO, well who could have predicted that response? Oh yes, I did! >;o) > Note: The subject GEDi responds as predicted to targeted stimulus. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 15:37:55 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <OZ-dnQPLh_F4XITVRVnyjgA@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>>>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >>>>> <snip> >>>>> >>>>> Moving into London at 18 years old >>>> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at >>>>Loughborough. RH >>> >>> Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some stage. >>> >>>> >> Treats Wipedia, the font of all misinformation, as gospel. ROTFL! RH >> > >So then Robert - what year were you born in? And I'm sure you'll go and >change things and say you were born in 1948 to prove yourself right! I was born in 1947 but that does not mean I was 18 when I came to London, young BLF. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 17:29:48 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <OZ-dnQPLh_F4XITVRVnyjgA@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>>>>> experience has encompassed both South and North London. >>>>>> <snip> >>>>>> >>>>>> Moving into London at 18 years old >>>>> 17 actually. No wonder you had trouble with the maths tutors at >>>>> Loughborough. RH >>>> >>>> Wiki has you born in 1947, so 1965 you would have been 18 at some >>>> stage. >>>> >>>>> >>> Treats Wipedia, the font of all misinformation, as gospel. ROTFL! RH >>> >> >> So then Robert - what year were you born in? And I'm sure you'll go >> and change things and say you were born in 1948 to prove yourself right! > > I was born in 1947 but that does not mean I was 18 when I came to > London, young BLF. RH > Robert, you are seriously sad to say that Wiki is the font of all misinformation, when they've got your birth year correct?! Sigh. But sadly you'll try anything to knock someone down! |
| 01 May 2008 17:26:53 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <frGdnSdqQc02SoTVRVnyjwA@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>> Am I bovvered?! heh >> Deeply. You know you were tested and found wanting. . RH > >You're pretty far from the truth, am not bothered at all. 'Course you're not, BLF, 'course you're not. RH >Just because I didn't want to give you full details for why I failed, >you decided to make your own conclusions. Only you will believe them, >so as long as your happy with your own conclusions, then that's good. >Is it the truth? No. -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 17:27:32 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <64133729-b51b-4b65-b4c1-d262d8b4424b@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >, rodney.ulyate@gmail.com writes >That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? >You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with >Frith's not publishing you. I suggest you keep reading what I have written until you understand it. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 19:30:15 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in news:ZOgmGjhbPdGIFwYF@anywhere.demon.co.uk: > In message > <f473a3f5-bb10-4bb7-9394-0a609c33a469@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > Gavin Cawley <GavinCawley@googlemail.com> writes >>> >>> Ah, the old "I was only joking" line. RH >> >>ROTFLMAO, well who could have predicted that response? Oh yes, I did! >>;o) >> > Note: The subject GEDi responds as predicted to targeted stimulus. RH We're doing well on Henderson Bingo today - we've had a "Status Quo" (5 points), a "Do Stop Projecting" (10 points), the "Hospital put-down" (15 points) and, as above the somewhat rarer "Subject responds to..." (25 points). Do try and be more original in future. Richard |
| 01 May 2008 20:15:05 |
| Andy Walker |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In article <Xns9A91D17D969A6rdngemailyahoocouk@80.5.182.99 >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > wrote: >We're doing well on Henderson Bingo today [...]. Oh! Did you not realise that half the fun was that RH didn't know how many points each phrase scored, so was unable to bias his answers? Now we have to wait for him to forget again before circulating our league tables. I propose a 10 "status quo" penalty for RD. -- Andy Walker Nottingham |
| 01 May 2008 20:16:45 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
anw@cuboid.uk (Andy Walker) wrote in news:fvd8c9$shk$2$8300dec7 @news.demon.co.uk: > Oh! Did you not realise that half the fun was that RH didn't > know how many points each phrase scored, so was unable to bias his > answers? Now we have to wait for him to forget again before circulating > our league tables. I propose a 10 "status quo" penalty for RD. Oh bugger. RD |
| 01 May 2008 20:17:32 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in news:3XE9AecK+bGIFwdD@anywhere.demon.co.uk: >>Richard > > Do stop gazing in the mirror. RH Of course, the old playground mirror favourite too. I think we have a full house, Andy! Richard |
| 01 May 2008 22:05:43 |
| max.it |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On Thu, 1 May 2008 17:27:32 +0100, Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: >In message ><64133729-b51b-4b65-b4c1-d262d8b4424b@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >rodney.ulyate@gmail.com writes >>That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? >>You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with >>Frith's not publishing you. > >I suggest you keep reading what I have written until you understand it. >RH > In the blood was far too detailed for Wisden. Paul Stafford is much simpler to understand regarding Ed Joyce. " The ICC qualifying tournament in 2005 was part of the same World Cricket Cup competition. No competition anywhere in the world allows a player to play in a Cup game for one team and switch to another team in the latter stages. So why are England allowed to take the pick of our best players yet we can’t have them back when they don’t want them anymore?" max.it >-- >Robert Henderson >Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ >Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 18:12:22 |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 1, 6:27 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <64133729-b51b-4b65-b4c1-d262d8b44...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes > >That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? > >You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with > >Frith's not publishing you. > I suggest you keep reading what I have written until you understand it. > RH I suggest you stop wasting our time. Put up or shut up. Kindest, Rodney Ulyate |
| 01 May 2008 19:24:13 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <FdqdnSpNLp5gcoTVnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >> > >Robert, you are seriously sad to say that Wiki is the font of all >misinformation, when they've got your birth year correct?! Sigh. That had nothing to do with my point, that point being Wikepedia's general unreliability, young BLF. RH > >Sigh. But sadly you'll try anything to knock someone down! -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 01 May 2008 23:22:30 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 1, 3:29 pm, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <f473a3f5-bb10-4bb7-9394-0a609c33a...@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, > Gavin Cawley <GavinCaw...@googlemail.com> writes > > >> Ah, the old "I was only joking" line. RH > > >ROTFLMAO, well who could have predicted that response? Oh yes, I did! > >;o) > > Note: The subject GEDi responds as predicted to targeted stimulus. RH Except I published my prediction of your response before you made it. You on the other hand can only claim to have predicted mine after I had made it. I wonder which is more credible, LOL! |
| 02 May 2008 07:30:44 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <frGdnSdqQc02SoTVRVnyjwA@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>> Am I bovvered?! heh >>> Deeply. You know you were tested and found wanting. . RH >> >> You're pretty far from the truth, am not bothered at all. > > > 'Course you're not, BLF, 'course you're not. RH > :-S you are a strange man. |
| 02 May 2008 07:35:31 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <FdqdnSpNLp5gcoTVnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>> >> >> Robert, you are seriously sad to say that Wiki is the font of all >> misinformation, when they've got your birth year correct?! > > Sigh. That had nothing to do with my point, that point being Wikepedia's > general unreliability, young BLF. RH > No - you claimed that as I used Wiki to get the year of your birth, as the font of all misinformation - yet the information was correct! Oh dear SOF. |
| 02 May 2008 05:55:40 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <481a3db2.54646062@news.btinternet.com >, ?@?.?.invalid writes > >In the blood was far too detailed for Wisden. By what criteria? It produced the greatest response ever according to Frith. Dull or incomprehensible does not produce such a response. RH > >Paul Stafford is much simpler to understand regarding Ed Joyce. > >" The ICC qualifying tournament in 2005 was part of the same World >Cricket Cup competition. No competition anywhere in the world allows a >player to play in a Cup game for one team and switch to another team in >the latter stages. So why are England allowed to take the pick of our >best players yet we can’t have them back when they don’t want them >anymore?" Because it makes a mockery of the idea of national represenation. RH > >max.it -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 05:56:09 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <43404d81-ab21-4663-936f-f1d7ed9c49f1@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, rodney.ulyate@gmail.com writes >> In message >> <64133729-b51b-4b65-b4c1-d262d8b44...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes >> >That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? >> >You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with >> >Frith's not publishing you. >> I suggest you keep reading what I have written until you understand it. >> RH > >I suggest you stop wasting our time. Put up or shut up. > >Kindest, >Rodney Ulyate Translation: Mr Confused refuses to read. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 05:53:42 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <Xns9A91D17D969A6rdngemailyahoocouk@80.5.182.99 >, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > writes >>> >> Note: The subject GEDi responds as predicted to targeted stimulus. RH > >We're doing well on Henderson Bingo today - we've had a "Status Quo" (5 >points), a "Do Stop Projecting" (10 points), the "Hospital put-down" >(15 points) and, as above the somewhat rarer "Subject responds to..." >(25 points). Do try and be more original in future. > >Richard Note: Subject R displays extreme stereotypical behaviour. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 10:17:16 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <1pCdnbveipKuK4fVnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>> >>> Robert, you are seriously sad to say that Wiki is the font of all >>>misinformation, when they've got your birth year correct?! >> Sigh. That had nothing to do with my point, that point being >>Wikepedia's general unreliability, young BLF. RH >> > >No - you claimed that as I used Wiki to get the year of your birth, as >the font of all misinformation - yet the information was correct! Oh >dear SOF. Obviously the distinction I made is far,. Far beyond the IQ range of the BLF. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 10:18:05 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <80f2b60a-e76d-420d-84c7-302c3657806b@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com >, Gavin Cawley <GavinCawley@googlemail.com > writes >> >;o) >> >> Note: The subject GEDi responds as predicted to targeted stimulus. RH > >Except I published my prediction of your response before you made it. >You on the other hand can only claim to have predicted mine after I had >made it. I wonder which is more credible, LOL! > You assume that posts are received and/or read before other posts are sent, young GEDi. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 12:12:53 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <1pCdnbveipKuK4fVnZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>> >>>> Robert, you are seriously sad to say that Wiki is the font of all >>>> misinformation, when they've got your birth year correct?! >>> Sigh. That had nothing to do with my point, that point being >>> Wikepedia's general unreliability, young BLF. RH >>> >> >> No - you claimed that as I used Wiki to get the year of your birth, as >> the font of all misinformation - yet the information was correct! Oh >> dear SOF. > > > Obviously the distinction I made is far,. Far beyond the IQ range of the > BLF. RH Surprise surprise, SOF is back to commenting on someone's intelligence again. |
| 02 May 2008 04:17:15 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 2 May, 05:53, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > >We're doing well on Henderson Bingo today - we've had a "Status Quo" (5 > >points), a "Do Stop Projecting" (10 points), the "Hospital put-down" > >(15 points) and, as above the somewhat rarer "Subject responds to..." > >(25 points). Do try and be more original in future. > > >Richard > > Note: Subject R displays extreme stereotypical behaviour. RH > -- > Robert Henderson > Blair Scandal website:http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ > Personal website:http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk 25 points. RD |
| 02 May 2008 16:26:01 |
| max.it |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On Fri, 2 May 2008 05:55:40 +0100, Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: >In message <481a3db2.54646062@news.btinternet.com>, ?@?.?.invalid writes >> >>In the blood was far too detailed for Wisden. > >By what criteria? It produced the greatest response ever according to >Frith. Dull or incomprehensible does not produce such a response. RH You told them too much. A series of less detailed articles would have given the readership more time to absorbe the address of the article. The complete piece in one issue reads like the revelation of St John. > >> >>Paul Stafford is much simpler to understand regarding Ed Joyce. >> >>" The ICC qualifying tournament in 2005 was part of the same World >>Cricket Cup competition. No competition anywhere in the world allows a >>player to play in a Cup game for one team and switch to another team in >>the latter stages. So why are England allowed to take the pick of our >>best players yet we can’t have them back when they don’t want them >>anymore?" > >Because it makes a mockery of the idea of national represenation. RH So did Joyce's selection for England. to begin with. He played in the world cup for Ireland, and was permitted to play in the latter stages of the same world cup for England. max.it > >> >>max.it > >-- >Robert Henderson >Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ >Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 02 May 2008 10:39:04 |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 2, 6:56 am, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <43404d81-ab21-4663-936f-f1d7ed9c4...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes > >> In message > >> <64133729-b51b-4b65-b4c1-d262d8b44...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > >> rodney.uly...@gmail.com writes > >> >That's lovely, Robert, but how, exactly, does it make me look stupid? > >> >You seem to have confused Frith's not supporting your views with > >> >Frith's not publishing you. > >> I suggest you keep reading what I have written until you understand it. > >> RH > >I suggest you stop wasting our time. Put up or shut up. [...] > Translation: Mr Confused refuses to read. RH You know, Robert, I have shown you nothing but respect in the year or so that I have been here. If you feel that a trivial disagreement is grounds enough to stop reciprocating -- indeed, begin dolling out childish insults --, then, really, you need help. I mean that in the nicest way possible. <snip > |
| 02 May 2008 23:04:05 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
rodney.ulyate@gmail.com wrote in news:cc9cbd6c-88e4-44d9-8605-a4f0f916b7cb@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > You know, Robert, I have shown you nothing but respect in the year or > so that I have been here. If you feel that a trivial disagreement is > grounds enough to stop reciprocating -- indeed, begin dolling out > childish insults --, then, really, you need help. I mean that in the > nicest way possible. Good luck Rodney - you'll get: a) Do stop projecting b) Status quo c) The hospital "Nurse!" put-down Welcome to the world of us mere mortals not intelligent enough to follow Robert's line of argument. You know - the world where people socialise and have friends outside of a bedsit. Richard |
| 03 May 2008 00:24:58 |
| max.it |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On Fri, 02 May 2008 23:04:05 GMT, Richard Dixon <rdngemail@yahoo.co.uk > wrote: >rodney.ulyate@gmail.com wrote in >news:cc9cbd6c-88e4-44d9-8605-a4f0f916b7cb@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > >> You know, Robert, I have shown you nothing but respect in the year or >> so that I have been here. If you feel that a trivial disagreement is >> grounds enough to stop reciprocating -- indeed, begin dolling out >> childish insults --, then, really, you need help. I mean that in the >> nicest way possible. > >Good luck Rodney - you'll get: > >a) Do stop projecting >b) Status quo >c) The hospital "Nurse!" put-down > >Welcome to the world of us mere mortals not intelligent enough to follow >Robert's line of argument. You know - the world where people socialise and >have friends outside of a bedsit. > >Richard > Settle your self/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBChWF9pZ5M&feature=related max.it |
| 02 May 2008 17:25:00 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <V-SdneoaXJyraofVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>> >>> No - you claimed that as I used Wiki to get the year of your birth, >>>as the font of all misinformation - yet the information was correct! >>>Oh dear SOF. >> Obviously the distinction I made is far,. Far beyond the IQ range >>of the BLF. RH > >Surprise surprise, SOF is back to commenting on someone's intelligence >again. Original judgement confirmed. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 03 May 2008 05:34:08 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <481b1915.23585796@news.btinternet.com >, ?@?.?.invalid writes >> >>Because it makes a mockery of the idea of national represenation. RH > >So did Joyce's selection for England. to begin with. He played in the >world cup for Ireland, and was permitted to play in the latter stages >of the same world cup for England. > > That does not alter my point. The rules were changed not the moral context. RH >max.it -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 03 May 2008 17:03:09 |
| max.it |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On Sat, 3 May 2008 05:34:08 +0100, Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: >In message <481b1915.23585796@news.btinternet.com>, ?@?.?.invalid writes >>> >>>Because it makes a mockery of the idea of national represenation. RH >> >>So did Joyce's selection for England. to begin with. He played in the >>world cup for Ireland, and was permitted to play in the latter stages >>of the same world cup for England. >> >> > >That does not alter my point. The rules were changed not the moral >context. RH Morality and obligation the lead necktie. max.it >>max.it > >-- >Robert Henderson >Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ >Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 03 May 2008 21:48:11 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <481c9934.28874921@news.btinternet.com >, ?@?.?.invalid writes >> >> >> >>That does not alter my point. The rules were changed not the moral >>context. RH > > >Morality and obligation the lead necktie. > >max.it > If only there were any sort of tie at all these days, Max. RH >>>max.it -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 05 May 2008 01:42:43 |
| rterhart@gmail.com |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert, In the article you claim that "there is firm statistical evidence to support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform well." While that may have been true at the time you wrote that (in the early 1990s, I presume) I wonder if it is still true today. If you look at player who have made their debut in the last ten or fifteen years, can you still claim that coloured players as a group have underperformed? RtH |
| 05 May 2008 10:09:42 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <b2315fe4-4823-4e43-a500-8294e88148a6@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com >, "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com > writes >Robert, > >In the article you claim that "there is firm statistical evidence to >support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform >well." > >While that may have been true at the time you wrote that (in the early >1990s, I presume) I wonder if it is still true today. If you look at >player who have made their debut in the last ten or fifteen years, can >you still claim that coloured players as a group have underperformed? > >RtH It depends if you take ten or fifteen years. There have not been many blacks and Asians coming into the England side in the past ten years. Of those who have played any significant amount, their records, with the exception of Dean Headley - have been dire (Ramprakash) to mediocre (Hussain and Panesar). Taking the fifteen year period blacks and Asian have almost all performed poorly, only Headley acchieving a Test average of less than 30 for 50 or more wickets and no batsman has reached a Test average of 40. The main problem in recent years has been the use of white mercenaries such as Geraint Jones. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 05 May 2008 04:25:01 |
| rterhart@gmail.com |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 5 mei, 11:09, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <b2315fe4-4823-4e43-a500-8294e8814...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com> writes > > >Robert, > > >In the article you claim that "there is firm statistical evidence to > >support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform > >well." > > >While that may have been true at the time you wrote that (in the early > >1990s, I presume) I wonder if it is still true today. If you look at > >player who have made their debut in the last ten or fifteen years, can > >you still claim that coloured players as a group have underperformed? > > >RtH > > It depends if you take =A0ten or fifteen years. There have not been =A0man= y > blacks and Asians coming into the England side in the past ten years. > Of those who have played any significant amount, their records, with the > exception of Dean Headley - =A0have been dire (Ramprakash) to mediocre > (Hussain and Panesar). > > Taking the fifteen year period blacks and Asian have almost all > performed poorly, =A0only Headley acchieving a Test average of less than > 30 for 50 or more wickets and no batsman =A0has reached a Test =A0average = of > 40. > It does not depend if we take ten or fifteen years: in both cases Ramprakash (made his debut 17 years ago) and Hussein (18 years ago) fall outside the time frame. Monty Panesar has the best average of any English spinner in the past 25 years. I wouldn't call that mediocre. Could you please provide statistical proof that coloured players who have made their debut in the last 15 years and who have played any significant amount have underperformed compared to white players? RtH > The main problem in recent years has been the use =A0of white mercenaries > such as Geraint Jones. RH > -- > Robert Henderson > Blair Scandal website:http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ > Personal website:http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 05 May 2008 14:21:55 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <a13902ad-48db-4c42-8979-8b18fdbe1a44@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com >, "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com > writes > > >It does not depend if we take ten or fifteen years: in both cases >Ramprakash (made his debut 17 years ago) and Hussein (18 years ago) >fall outside the time frame. > >Monty Panesar has the best average of any English spinner in the past >25 years. I wouldn't call that mediocre. Hasn't finished his career. Spinners commonly start well then decline as batsmen work them out. Tufnell had a very good record early on. RH > >Could you please provide statistical proof that coloured players who >have made their debut in the last 15 years and who have played any >significant amount have underperformed compared to white players? I already have done by citing the fact that only one managed a Test average of less than 30 as a bowler (minimum of 50 wickets) and none managed a Test average of 40 (minimum of 1,000 runs) - Hussain is highest with .An average of 36 from memory. No one else e has managed to average 30. English players managed both on occasions in excess of their representation in the side (compared with blacks and Asians): Batting Thorpe, Strauss Bell Collingwood Vaughan Trescothick Cook In addition Stewart averaged 39 (and would have averaged 40 if he had not kept wicket. Atheron 37, Crawley averaged 34. Gooch also played for three years into the 15 year period taking that as beginning in 1992. Bowlers: Cork Gough Fraser Sidebottom In addition, Hoggard and Harmison have both taken their wickets at under 32, a lower average than any black or Asian bowler except for Headley. England have also produced an outstanding allrounder in Flintoff. RH > >RtH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 05 May 2008 10:48:17 |
| rterhart@gmail.com |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 5 mei, 15:21, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <a13902ad-48db-4c42-8979-8b18fdbe1...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com> writes > > For purposes of this discussion, the 15 year period starts in the summer of 1993, with the debuts of Andrew Caddick and Peter Such. Only they, and players making their debut after them can be included here. > > I already have done by citing the fact that only one managed a Test > average of less than 30 as a bowler (minimum of 50 wickets) You forget to mention that he is the *only* coloured player to take more than Test 50 wickets, except for Panesar who, as I have said before, has the best average etc. and none > managed a Test average of =A040 (minimum of 1,000 runs) Only one coloured player has scored more than 1,000 runs: Mark Butcher, whose average is comparable to Crawley's. The only possible conclusion is the one you have already come to: that not many coloured players have played for England at all in the last 15 years. And the few that have played a significant amount, haven't done too badly. <snip > > > In addition, Hoggard and Harmison have both taken their wickets at under > 32, Would that be the same Harmison you recently described as being a liability at Test level? RtH |
| 05 May 2008 19:19:45 |
| max.it |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On Sat, 3 May 2008 21:48:11 +0100, Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: >In message <481c9934.28874921@news.btinternet.com>, ?@?.?.invalid writes >>> >>> >>> >>>That does not alter my point. The rules were changed not the moral >>>context. RH >> >> >>Morality and obligation the lead necktie. >> >>max.it >> >If only there were any sort of tie at all these days, Max. RH I wouldn't be going for a clip on model anyway, or one of those elastic things. max.it > >>>>max.it > >-- >Robert Henderson >Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ >Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 06 May 2008 00:19:59 |
| David North |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message news:qhba9NoznwHIFwFg@anywhere.demon.co.uk... > In message > <a13902ad-48db-4c42-8979-8b18fdbe1a44@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com> writes >> >> >>It does not depend if we take ten or fifteen years: in both cases >>Ramprakash (made his debut 17 years ago) and Hussein (18 years ago) fall >>outside the time frame. >> >>Monty Panesar has the best average of any English spinner in the past 25 >>years. I wouldn't call that mediocre. > > Hasn't finished his career. Spinners commonly start well then decline as > batsmen work them out. Tufnell had a very good record early on. RH Tufnell had a better average in the second half of his Test career than in the first. His average was higher than Panesar's is by and from the time he had played half as many Tests as Panesar has. By the time he had played as many as Panesar, he averaged over 38. -- David North |
| 05 May 2008 19:35:00 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <b4c24b6e-06f4-4ecf-8697-09740b375e72@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com >, "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com > writes > >For purposes of this discussion, the 15 year period starts in the >summer of 1993, with the debuts of Andrew Caddick and Peter Such. Only >they, and players making their debut after them can be included here. > No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this season has not been played. RH >> >> I already have done by citing the fact that only one managed a Test >> average of less than 30 as a bowler (minimum of 50 wickets) > >You forget to mention that he is the *only* coloured player to take >more than Test 50 wickets, except for Panesar Utterly wrong, viz: Malcolm test average 37 Lewis Test average 37 Small Test average 34 DeFreitas Test average 33. RH >who, as I have said before, has the best average etc. > >and none >> managed a Test average of 40 (minimum of 1,000 runs) > >Only one coloured player has scored more than 1,000 runs: Mark Butcher, Wrong. Ramprakash has done so with the lowest Test average ever of any England batsman playing 40 or more Tests - an average of 27. RH >whose average is comparable to Crawley's. But Crawley is not the main player in the group of English batsmen I cited. RH > >The only possible conclusion is the one you have already come to: that >not many coloured players have played for England at all in the last 15 >years. And the few that have played a significant amount, haven't done >too badly. No,, not many have played over the past ten years. Plenty played in the five years before that. RH > ><snip> > >> >> In addition, Hoggard and Harmison have both taken their wickets at under >> 32, > >Would that be the same Harmison you recently described as being a >liability at Test level? > Your logic fails you. If I think someone with A Test average of 32 is a liability, those with higher Test averages are an even greater liability. RH >RtH > -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 06 May 2008 05:17:03 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <689j0tF2rifipU1@mid.individual.net >, David North <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > writes >>>years. I wouldn't call that mediocre. >> >> Hasn't finished his career. Spinners commonly start well then decline as >> batsmen work them out. Tufnell had a very good record early on. RH > >Tufnell had a better average in the second half of his Test career than >in the first. His average was higher than Panesar's is by and from the >time he had played half as many Tests as Panesar has. By the time he >had played as many as Panesar, he averaged over 38. >-- >David North But not when he had taken around 40 wickets. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 05 May 2008 23:46:19 |
| Fred |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 5 May, 09:42, "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com > wrote: > Robert, > > In the article you claim that "there is firm statistical evidence to > support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform > well." > > While that may have been true at the time you wrote that (in the early > 1990s, I presume) I wonder if it is still true today. If you look at > player who have made their debut in the last ten or fifteen years, can > you still claim that coloured players as a group have underperformed? > > RtH FWIW last year (and the year before) I posted an analysis of the test records of all the players RH approved of playing for England since the publication of "Is it in the blood?" and all the players RH did not approve of playing for England. The approved batsmen-allrounders- wicketkeepers had a slightly better batting average than the not approved ones, and the not approved bowlers-allrounders had a fractionally better bowling average. It seems pretty clear to me that the assertions that Robert published back in WCM have not been backed up by subsequent results. I'm not going to post it a third time - Robert didn't take it on board last time, and I'm not going to hit my head against a brick wall again, but the details are in the archive, as is the subsequent discussion. I think the thread was something like "Bloody Johnny Foreigner". I also posted an analysis of RH approved / not approved players turning out for England since 1980, and even there I couldn't find statistical evidence to back up RH's theories (where you would expect to if his article was based on the reality of player records). It seems very much to me that RH nhas made the fatal error of coming to a conclusion first and then looking back to find the evidence to back it up (which he does by cherry picking stats, rather than taking aggregates) and refusing to listen to any alternative voices. |
| 06 May 2008 00:54:02 |
| rterhart@gmail.com |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 5 mei, 20:35, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > In message > <b4c24b6e-06f4-4ecf-8697-09740b375...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, > "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com> writes > > >For purposes of this discussion, the 15 year period starts in the > >summer of 1993, with the debuts of Andrew Caddick and Peter Such. Only > >they, and players making their debut after them can be included here. > > No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this > season has not been played. RH > If you want to start in 1992, fine by me. I have said twice, and I will say it here a third time, that I wanted this discussion to be only about players making their debut after said date. That means you cannot bring up Malcolm, Lewis, et. al. If you cannot stick to this simple rule, Robert, please do not bother replying. I made the rule for a specific reason. If you claim that in the 1980s and early 90s coloured players statistically underperformed compared to white players, there may be some evidence to back that up. However, I wanted to know whether you think that underperformance continues to this day and if so, if you could present some statistical proof to back up that claim. That is why I limited the discussion to recent players, defined as those who made their debut in the last 15 years. In trying to prove your point, the only player you could come up with was Dean Headley, a man with a bowling average of 28. Which pretty much answers my question, I guess. Thank you. RtH |
| 06 May 2008 09:00:24 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
David North wrote: > "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > news:qhba9NoznwHIFwFg@anywhere.demon.co.uk... >> In message >> <a13902ad-48db-4c42-8979-8b18fdbe1a44@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, >> "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com> writes >>> >>> It does not depend if we take ten or fifteen years: in both cases >>> Ramprakash (made his debut 17 years ago) and Hussein (18 years ago) fall >>> outside the time frame. >>> >>> Monty Panesar has the best average of any English spinner in the past 25 >>> years. I wouldn't call that mediocre. >> Hasn't finished his career. Spinners commonly start well then decline as >> batsmen work them out. Tufnell had a very good record early on. RH > > Tufnell had a better average in the second half of his Test career than in > the first. His average was higher than Panesar's is by and from the time he > had played half as many Tests as Panesar has. By the time he had played as > many as Panesar, he averaged over 38. Here are cumulative averages throughout both Tufnell's and Panesar's careers... Tufnell - http://tinyurl.com/6ftakx Panesar - http://tinyurl.com/65v26u |
| 06 May 2008 01:09:57 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 6, 7:46 am, Fred <longhop2...@hotmail.com > wrote: > On 5 May, 09:42, "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Robert, > > > In the article you claim that "there is firm statistical evidence to > > support the view that coloured players in England caps do not perform > > well." > > > While that may have been true at the time you wrote that (in the early > > 1990s, I presume) I wonder if it is still true today. If you look at > > player who have made their debut in the last ten or fifteen years, can > > you still claim that coloured players as a group have underperformed? > > > RtH > > FWIW last year (and the year before) I posted an analysis of the test > records of all the players RH approved of playing for England since > the publication of "Is it in the blood?" and all the players RH did > not approve of playing for England. The approved batsmen-allrounders- > wicketkeepers had a slightly better batting average than the not > approved ones, and the not approved bowlers-allrounders had a > fractionally better bowling average. It seems pretty clear to me that > the assertions that Robert published back in WCM have not been backed > up by subsequent results. > > I'm not going to post it a third time - Robert didn't take it on board > last time, and I'm not going to hit my head against a brick wall > again, but the details are in the archive, as is the subsequent > discussion. I think the thread was something like "Bloody Johnny > Foreigner". > > I also posted an analysis of RH approved / not approved players > turning out for England since 1980, and even there I couldn't find > statistical evidence to back up RH's theories (where you would expect > to if his article was based on the reality of player records). It > seems very much to me that RH nhas made the fatal error of coming to a > conclusion first and then looking back to find the evidence to back it > up (which he does by cherry picking stats, rather than taking > aggregates) and refusing to listen to any alternative voices. ISTR perfoming (permutation) tests for statistical significance for the difference in averages between groups for one year and IIRC found that very little was statistically significant (basically the test shows that random partitions of the players into groups gave differences in averages of similar sizes to those for Roberts groupings, strongly suggesting that the differences are meaningless). |
| 06 May 2008 09:54:17 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Fred <longhop2005@hotmail.com > wrote in news:a7d807c5-87cf-4e81-8957- 21b427b9e31e@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com: > and refusing to listen to any alternative voices. The crux of the problem in any attempted conversation with Robert. Richard |
| 06 May 2008 11:19:38 |
| Andy Walker |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In article <HSChhTwUN1HIFwTr@anywhere.demon.co.uk >, Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: >No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this >season has not been played. RH I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? -- Andy Walker Nottingham |
| 06 May 2008 12:33:40 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Andy Walker wrote: > In article <HSChhTwUN1HIFwTr@anywhere.demon.co.uk>, > Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this >> season has not been played. RH > > I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? > I was wondering that too ;-) |
| 06 May 2008 12:36:35 |
| HVS |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 06 May 2008, Toby wrote > Andy Walker wrote: >> In article <HSChhTwUN1HIFwTr@anywhere.demon.co.uk>, >> Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of >>> 1992 . this season has not been played. RH >> >> I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? >> > > I was wondering that too ;-) Hey, be fair -- maybe he's disabled, and doesn't have enough fingers and toes to count how many seasons are in there. |
| 06 May 2008 06:40:23 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 6 May, 12:19, a...@cuboid.uk (Andy Walker) wrote: > In article <HSChhTwUN1HIF...@anywhere.demon.co.uk>, > Robert Henderson =A0<phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this > >season has not been played. RH > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? The usual when scuppered: ### tumbleweed ### Richard |
| 06 May 2008 15:13:53 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <fvpesa$qm7$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk >, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.uk > writes >In article <HSChhTwUN1HIFwTr@anywhere.demon.co.uk>, >Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this >>season has not been played. RH > > I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? > Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in 2007. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 06 May 2008 15:19:51 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <766638ed-cc45-42f5-bac3-1b8b86fd8887@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com >, "rterhart@gmail.com" <rterhart@gmail.com > writes >On 5 mei, 20:35, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> In message >> <b4c24b6e-06f4-4ecf-8697-09740b375...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, >> "rterh...@gmail.com" <rterh...@gmail.com> writes >> >> >For purposes of this discussion, the 15 year period starts in the >> >summer of 1993, with the debuts of Andrew Caddick and Peter Such. Only >> >they, and players making their debut after them can be included here. >> >> No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this >> season has not been played. RH >> > >If you want to start in 1992, fine by me. I have said twice, and I >will say it here a third time, that I wanted this discussion to be >only about players making their debut after said date That is what you want. Don't expect others to accept what you want. It is pointless doing it on debut because there have been few blacks and Asians debuting after 1992 or 3 who had any substantial Test career. . What matters is the performance of those who played, not performance during some artificial period. RH >. That means you >cannot bring up Malcolm, Lewis, et. al. If you cannot stick to this >simple rule, Robert, please do not bother replying. You stick to your rules and I'll stick to mine. RH > >I made the rule for a specific reason. If you claim that in the 1980s >and early 90s coloured players statistically underperformed compared >to white players, there may be some evidence to back that up. However, >I wanted to know whether you think that underperformance continues to >this day It does as my stats showed,. The problem is that fewer and fewer blacks and Asians debuting in the past 15 years have had substantial Test careers. The data isn't there. However, those who have played in your artificial period have done poorly apart from Headley. RH > and if so, if you could present some statistical proof to >back up that claim. That is why I limited the discussion to recent >players, defined as those who made their debut in the last 15 years. > >In trying to prove your point, the only player you could come up with >was Dean Headley, a man with a bowling average of 28. Which pretty >much answers my question, I guess. Yes, it shows how poor the general black and Asian performance has been. RH > >Thank you. > >RtH > > -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 06 May 2008 17:28:19 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <fvpesa$qm7$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, Andy Walker > <anw@cuboid.uk> writes >> In article <HSChhTwUN1HIFwTr@anywhere.demon.co.uk>, >> Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> No. If you want fifteen seasons you start in the summer of 1992 . this >>> season has not been played. RH >> >> I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? >> > Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in 2007. RH Ah - so your criteria as above doesn't include Ravi Bopara - debut Dec 2007. |
| 06 May 2008 21:29:56 |
| Richard Dixon |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > wrote in news:d86dnXZwlZy8Gr3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com: >> Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in 2007. >> RH > > Ah - so your criteria as above doesn't include Ravi Bopara - debut Dec > 2007. This should be interesting... Richard |
| 06 May 2008 14:59:04 |
| Fred |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 6 May, 15:19, Robert Henderson <phi...@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote: > The problem is that fewer and fewer blacks > and Asians debuting in the past 15 years =A0have had substantial Test > careers. lol - I never thought I'd read these words from RH... |
| 06 May 2008 15:01:55 |
| Fred |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 6 May, 09:09, Gavin Cawley <GavinCaw...@googlemail.com > wrote: > ISTR perfoming (permutation) tests for statistical significance for > the difference in averages between groups for one year and IIRC found > that very little was statistically significant (basically the test > shows that random partitions of the players into groups gave > differences in averages of similar sizes to those for Roberts > groupings, strongly suggesting that the differences are meaningless). You did indeed - much appreciated, you supplied the maths & stats know- how that I lack! |
| 06 May 2008 19:22:39 |
| Robert Henderson |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
In message <d86dnXZwlZy8Gr3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com >, Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes >>> >>> I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? >>> >> Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in 2007. RH > >Ah - so your criteria as above doesn't include Ravi Bopara - debut Dec 2007. Not in the summer. Sigh. RH -- Robert Henderson Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/ Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk |
| 06 May 2008 23:55:05 |
| Gavin Cawley |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On May 6, 11:01 pm, Fred <longhop2...@hotmail.com > wrote: > On 6 May, 09:09, Gavin Cawley <GavinCaw...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > ISTR perfoming (permutation) tests for statistical significance for > > the difference in averages between groups for one year and IIRC found > > that very little was statistically significant (basically the test > > shows that random partitions of the players into groups gave > > differences in averages of similar sizes to those for Roberts > > groupings, strongly suggesting that the differences are meaningless). > > You did indeed - much appreciated, you supplied the maths & stats know- > how that I lack! Always be suspicious of statistics without a clear statement of statistical significance (at what level of confidence and how the test was performed). Most often when someone has "statistical evidence" to support an assertion that they are already committed to, it is all too easy for them to latch onto very weak evidence and get carried away with it. Its very easy to get stats wrong, even when you do have the training! |
| 07 May 2008 08:43:01 |
| Toby |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
Robert Henderson wrote: > In message <d86dnXZwlZy8Gr3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Toby > <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>> >>>> I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? >>>> >>> Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in 2007. RH >> >> Ah - so your criteria as above doesn't include Ravi Bopara - debut Dec >> 2007. > > > Not in the summer. Sigh. RH Robert changes his goalposts. |
| 07 May 2008 08:55:30 |
| HVS |
| Re: Is it in the blood? - the reply Frith refused to publish |
On 07 May 2008, Toby wrote > Robert Henderson wrote: >> In message <d86dnXZwlZy8Gr3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@giganews.com>, >> Toby <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes >>>>> >>>>> I wonder what RH's excuse will be for this one? >>>>> >>>> Sigh No black or Asian made their Test debut for England in >>>> 2007. RH >>> >>> Ah - so your criteria as above doesn't include Ravi Bopara - >>> debut Dec 2007. >> >> >> Not in the summer. Sigh. RH > > Robert changes his goalposts. > And wasn't it summer where he made his debut? |