20 Feb 2007 21:32:10
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure out
which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting which
horse will earn the highest speed figure.

The attempt to figure out which horse will earn the highest speed figure
requires the handicapper to PROJECT a speed figure for each horse BEFORE the
race, instead of after the race, which is what speed handicappers do. This
process requires far greater handicapping skill because one must consider
literally every factor for the ratings to work.

Once one has an accurate projection or power rating, however, they can
convert that to a value line the same way that pointspreads in the NFL are
converted to money lines. In this case lengths are being converted to odds
through a formula I developed over the last decade.

The value line is just the beginning, however, because the power rating can
be used as a building block for research into every other area of the sport.
Wherever a speed figure was used, the power rating will be more accurate,
and this will make the research that much more powerful.

--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF! If you
don't do it, you'll lose to my readers who do.

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




21 Feb 2007 06:33:38
g Wayne
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 02:32:10 UTC, "Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot""
<[email protected] > wrote:

> Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure out
> which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting which
> horse will earn the highest speed figure.
>
Alydar ran the fastest for 3 races against Affirmed. Which horse got all
the money?


> The attempt to figure out which horse will earn the highest speed figure
> requires the handicapper to PROJECT a speed figure for each horse BEFORE the
> race, instead of after the race, which is what speed handicappers do. This
> process requires far greater handicapping skill because one must consider
> literally every factor for the ratings to work.
>
And to arrive at this projected speed figure requires statistics and
mathmatics. So how is it, that after 100 plus years, all the expert
statisticians and mathmaticians haven't been successful. Many of those also
had extensive knowledge of horse racing and handicapping.


> Once one has an accurate projection or power rating, however, they can
> convert that to a value line the same way that pointspreads in the NFL are
> converted to money lines. In this case lengths are being converted to odds
> through a formula I developed over the last decade.
>
highest power rating=highest projected speed figure=winner. nothing "NEW"
here at all.
If your power rating is THAT accurate, odds conversion for overlays become
secondary due to the high win percentage. But speed handicapping like every
other approach, has its limits of accuracy, and this approach has long ago
reached its limits. How often does your highest power rating win? About 1/3
of the time?
What your hawking here is the claim that you produce a more accurate odds
line than most. To this end, I cannot attest. If you do, then bully for
you, but what it boils down to no matter how selections are arrived at, is
knowing WHEN to invest and when to pass. That is the key to profitability.
Most people play way too many races. How many can go to the track/OTB and
not play a single race all day? How many could do it for a whole week? And
of course your odds line is also a means of 'when'.


> The value line is just the beginning, however, because the power rating can
> be used as a building block for research into every other area of the sport.
> Wherever a speed figure was used, the power rating will be more accurate,
> and this will make the research that much more powerful.
>
It sounds as if you haven't done any of this further research yourself, as
of yet.

--

-- g Wayne --




21 Feb 2007 01:55:55
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

>> Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure
>> out
>> which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting
>> which
>> horse will earn the highest speed figure.
>>
> Alydar ran the fastest for 3 races against Affirmed.

He did not. He lost.



>> The attempt to figure out which horse will earn the highest speed figure
>> requires the handicapper to PROJECT a speed figure for each horse BEFORE
>> the
>> race, instead of after the race, which is what speed handicappers do.
>> This
>> process requires far greater handicapping skill because one must consider
>> literally every factor for the ratings to work.
>>
> And to arrive at this projected speed figure requires statistics and
> mathmatics. So how is it, that after 100 plus years, all the expert
> statisticians and mathmaticians haven't been successful.

They don't know what they are doing.

>Many of those also
> had extensive knowledge of horse racing and handicapping.

I have a profitable ROI with this method, and can prove it. And have, in
fact. Several times.

>> Once one has an accurate projection or power rating, however, they can
>> convert that to a value line the same way that pointspreads in the NFL
>> are
>> converted to money lines. In this case lengths are being converted to
>> odds
>> through a formula I developed over the last decade.
>>
> highest power rating=highest projected speed figure=winner. nothing "NEW"
> here at all.

It is the way I do it.



> If your power rating is THAT accurate, odds conversion for overlays become
> secondary due to the high win percentage.

Not true. Value is value. But note the title of the method: Price AND
Probability. They are equal partners. There are price plays and there are
probability plays.


>But speed handicapping like every
> other approach, has its limits of accuracy, and this approach has long ago
> reached its limits

Power ratings incorporate literally every factor. They have to. Speed
handicapping does not.


>. How often does your highest power rating win? About 1/3
> of the time?

I do not check the highest power rating, but the best value instead. I do
"pocket research" mostly. ROI is positive.


> What your hawking here is the claim that you produce a more accurate odds
> line than most.

Correct.

>To this end, I cannot attest. If you do, then bully for
> you, but what it boils down to no matter how selections are arrived at, is
> knowing WHEN to invest and when to pass.

If my odds line is more accurate, every race becomes an opportunity.


>That is the key to profitability.
> Most people play way too many races.

One has to because otherwise you wind up killing your prices even with an
extra $1 on a winning trifecta.

That +10 percent becomes break-even a lot more quickly than people realize.

"Spot play" limits one's ability to win and makes them a sniper rather than
a tank.


>How many can go to the track/OTB and
> not play a single race all day?

No race should ever be passed. Racing luck evens out the more one plays.


>How many could do it for a whole week? And
> of course your odds line is also a means of 'when'.

The method can be applied to every race.


>> The value line is just the beginning, however, because the power rating
>> can
>> be used as a building block for research into every other area of the
>> sport.
>> Wherever a speed figure was used, the power rating will be more accurate,
>> and this will make the research that much more powerful.
>>
> It sounds as if you haven't done any of this further research yourself, as
> of yet.

It's in progress.


--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




21 Feb 2007 18:33:28
Danzig
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
>>> Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure
>>> out
>>> which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting
>>> which
>>> horse will earn the highest speed figure.
>>>
>> Alydar ran the fastest for 3 races against Affirmed.
>
> He did not. He lost.
>

go back to the old tortise and the hare. Who was fastest from the start
to finish, or time to complete the distance? THE tortise was....

It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane


21 Feb 2007 13:41:57
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

>> He did not. He lost.
>>
>
> go back to the old tortise and the hare. Who was fastest from the start to
> finish, or time to complete the distance? THE tortise was....
>
> It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
> fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane

How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?

Distribution matters if you are evaluating past races, not today's race.

--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




21 Feb 2007 19:30:37
Danzig
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
>>> He did not. He lost.
>>>
>> go back to the old tortise and the hare. Who was fastest from the start to
>> finish, or time to complete the distance? THE tortise was....
>>
>> It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
>> fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane
>
> How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?
>
> Distribution matters if you are evaluating past races, not today's race.
>
tell that baloney to the 300 at my discussion group and the 260 at the
other Sartin group...funny


21 Feb 2007 21:51:54
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: ROI

>>> It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
>>> fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane
>>
>> How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?
>>
>> Distribution matters if you are evaluating past races, not today's race.
>>
> ROI varies between 1.27 and 1.34

That can be caused by anything, but Ernie Dahlman doesn't even sustain that
and he's a millionaire bettor.

He makes about $1.03 on every dollar he bets.

Anyone making $1.27 would be rich in no time flat.

--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




21 Feb 2007 21:52:29
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

>>> It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
>>> fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane
>>
>> How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?
>>
>> Distribution matters if you are evaluating past races, not today's race.
>>
> tell that baloney to the 300 at my discussion group and the 260 at the
> other Sartin group...funny

It's not "baloney," just that there are other ways to recognize strong pace
performance beyond what the Sartin people use.


--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




22 Feb 2007 08:58:05
g Wayne
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:55:55 UTC, "Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot""
<[email protected] > wrote:

> >> Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure
> >> out
> >> which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting
> >> which
> >> horse will earn the highest speed figure.
> >>
> > Alydar ran the fastest for 3 races against Affirmed.
>
> He did not. He lost.
>
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=Afunnycidething

It's all in the perception.

>
>
> >> The attempt to figure out which horse will earn the highest speed figure
> >> requires the handicapper to PROJECT a speed figure for each horse BEFORE
> >> the
> >> race, instead of after the race, which is what speed handicappers do.
> >> This
> >> process requires far greater handicapping skill because one must consider
> >> literally every factor for the ratings to work.
> >>
> > And to arrive at this projected speed figure requires statistics and
> > mathmatics. So how is it, that after 100 plus years, all the expert
> > statisticians and mathmaticians haven't been successful.
>
> They don't know what they are doing.
>
Right.....

> >Many of those also
> > had extensive knowledge of horse racing and handicapping.
>
> I have a profitable ROI with this method, and can prove it. And have, in
> fact. Several times.
>
never said you didn't. Now try it as your sole source of income.

> >> Once one has an accurate projection or power rating, however, they can
> >> convert that to a value line the same way that pointspreads in the NFL
> >> are
> >> converted to money lines. In this case lengths are being converted to
> >> odds
> >> through a formula I developed over the last decade.
> >>
> > highest power rating=highest projected speed figure=winner. nothing "NEW"
> > here at all.
>
> It is the way I do it.
>
different formulas/combinations to the same overall line of thinking does
not equate to 'new' in my book. you're still limited to the accuracy
constraints of the statistics used.
>
>
> > If your power rating is THAT accurate, odds conversion for overlays become
> > secondary due to the high win percentage.
>
> Not true. Value is value. But note the title of the method: Price AND
> Probability. They are equal partners. There are price plays and there are
> probability plays.
>
first they are equal. next sentence they are separate. In my book, they are
separate. probabilities on an individual entrant can change without a
corresponding change in price.
>
> >But speed handicapping like every
> > other approach, has its limits of accuracy, and this approach has long ago
> > reached its limits
>
> Power ratings incorporate literally every factor. They have to. Speed
> handicapping does not.
>
many factors manifest themselves in other factors, rendering them
redundent. still, other factors are so statistically insignificant, that
the removal of them would not alter your odds line more than a couple of
hundreths of a percent.
>
> >. How often does your highest power rating win? About 1/3
> > of the time?
>
> I do not check the highest power rating, but the best value instead. I do
> "pocket research" mostly. ROI is positive.
>
I know you look for the 'value' as it should be, but your going to bet the
lowest power rating in a field of 10 because it has the best value? not the
only value in the race, but the best. using your method of power
rating=fastest projected speed=most of your objective, logic dictates that
your highest power rating will win the most. 2nd highest, second most, on
down until nth rating covers 'x'% of all winners. you should at least know
that your highest power rating wins about twice as often as the 3rd highest
rating. that's a part of the probibilities.
>
> > What your hawking here is the claim that you produce a more accurate odds
> > line than most.
>
> Correct.
>
> >To this end, I cannot attest. If you do, then bully for
> > you, but what it boils down to no matter how selections are arrived at, is
> > knowing WHEN to invest and when to pass.
>
> If my odds line is more accurate, every race becomes an opportunity.
>
not necessesarily a good opportunity
>
> >That is the key to profitability.
> > Most people play way too many races.
>
> One has to because otherwise you wind up killing your prices even with an
> extra $1 on a winning trifecta.
>
> That +10 percent becomes break-even a lot more quickly than people realize.
>
> "Spot play" limits one's ability to win and makes them a sniper rather than
> a tank.
>
Bull. If profit is the name of the game, then ROI is the vehicle. I
eliminate most situations that over a period of time, are not much better
than break even propositions. guess what happens to my ROI? I optimize to
what I think is the cream of the overlays and always at a price (min. 3-1.
used to be 5-1)
>
> >How many can go to the track/OTB and
> > not play a single race all day?
>
> No race should ever be passed. Racing luck evens out the more one plays.
>
Do you buy into every mutual fund on the stock market?
>
> >How many could do it for a whole week? And
> > of course your odds line is also a means of 'when'.
>
> The method can be applied to every race.
>
it's an odds line. of course it applies to every race. still, does not mean
it should be played every race.
>
> >> The value line is just the beginning, however, because the power rating
> >> can
> >> be used as a building block for research into every other area of the
> >> sport.
> >> Wherever a speed figure was used, the power rating will be more accurate,
> >> and this will make the research that much more powerful.
> >>
> > It sounds as if you haven't done any of this further research yourself, as
> > of yet.
>
> It's in progress.
>
>
let me know how long it takes you to realise that the limits of the
statistics have already been reached.

--

-- g Wayne --




22 Feb 2007 09:01:49
g Wayne
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:33:28 UTC, Danzig <[email protected] > wrote:

> Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot" wrote:
> >>> Everyone agrees that the task confronting the horseplayer is to figure
> >>> out
> >>> which horse(s) will run the fastest. That is the same as predicting
> >>> which
> >>> horse will earn the highest speed figure.
> >>>
> >> Alydar ran the fastest for 3 races against Affirmed.
> >
> > He did not. He lost.
> >
>
> go back to the old tortise and the hare. Who was fastest from the start
> to finish, or time to complete the distance? THE tortise was....
>
> It is DISTRIBUTION of time that is important....and usually to the
> fractional time as most dirt races are over by the top of the lane

I think I'll go with Charlie Whittingham who said something to the effect
that time is only important when your in jail.
--

-- g Wayne --




22 Feb 2007 05:30:34
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

>> I have a profitable ROI with this method, and can prove it. And have, in
>> fact. Several times.
>>
> never said you didn't. Now try it as your sole source of income.

That's the cart before the horse, as one has to be in pretty good shape to
begin with and at that point they usually earn money doing other things.

Money follows knowledge and not the other way around. Earning a living is
the last stop on that train, not the first.


>> >> Once one has an accurate projection or power rating, however, they can
>> >> convert that to a value line the same way that pointspreads in the NFL
>> >> are
>> >> converted to money lines. In this case lengths are being converted to
>> >> odds
>> >> through a formula I developed over the last decade.
>> >>
>> > highest power rating=highest projected speed figure=winner. nothing
>> > "NEW"
>> > here at all.
>>
>> It is the way I do it.
>>
> different formulas/combinations to the same overall line of thinking does
> not equate to 'new' in my book. you're still limited to the accuracy
> constraints of the statistics used.

Unless someone has published my specific conversion equation, my work is
new. Not all "value lines" are created equal.



>> > If your power rating is THAT accurate, odds conversion for overlays
>> > become
>> > secondary due to the high win percentage.
>>
>> Not true. Value is value. But note the title of the method: Price AND
>> Probability. They are equal partners. There are price plays and there
>> are
>> probability plays.
>>
> first they are equal. next sentence they are separate. In my book, they
> are
> separate. probabilities on an individual entrant can change without a
> corresponding change in price.

By "price" I mean value, not the odds of the horse, but the odds relative to
the probability.


>> >But speed handicapping like every
>> > other approach, has its limits of accuracy, and this approach has long
>> > ago
>> > reached its limits
>>
>> Power ratings incorporate literally every factor. They have to. Speed
>> handicapping does not.
>>
> many factors manifest themselves in other factors, rendering them
> redundent. still, other factors are so statistically insignificant, that
> the removal of them would not alter your odds line more than a couple of
> hundreths of a percent.

Nevertheless, the horse is going to earn a certain speed figure today.
There are ways to put diminishing returns for when multiple factors might
inflate a rating too high.


>> >. How often does your highest power rating win? About 1/3
>> > of the time?
>>
>> I do not check the highest power rating, but the best value instead. I
>> do
>> "pocket research" mostly. ROI is positive.
>>
> I know you look for the 'value' as it should be, but your going to bet the
> lowest power rating in a field of 10 because it has the best value?

About the only time that came close to happening was when Volponi (12-1 on
my value line and 50-1 in the program, 43-1 on the board) won the BC Classic
by five lengths. I did not have him because of the low probability.

Vision And Verse at 54-1 iin the 1999 Belmont was another good example.



>not the
> only value in the race, but the best. using your method of power
> rating=fastest projected speed=most of your objective, logic dictates that
> your highest power rating will win the most. 2nd highest, second most, on
> down until nth rating covers 'x'% of all winners. you should at least know
> that your highest power rating wins about twice as often as the 3rd
> highest
> rating. that's a part of the probibilities.

I'm doing a database project that will answer those questions.



>> > What your hawking here is the claim that you produce a more accurate
>> > odds
>> > line than most.
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> >To this end, I cannot attest. If you do, then bully for
>> > you, but what it boils down to no matter how selections are arrived at,
>> > is
>> > knowing WHEN to invest and when to pass.
>>
>> If my odds line is more accurate, every race becomes an opportunity.
>>
> not necessesarily a good opportunity

If the public has messed up, it is.


>> >That is the key to profitability.
>> > Most people play way too many races.
>>
>> One has to because otherwise you wind up killing your prices even with an
>> extra $1 on a winning trifecta.
>>
>> That +10 percent becomes break-even a lot more quickly than people
>> realize.
>>
>> "Spot play" limits one's ability to win and makes them a sniper rather
>> than
>> a tank.
>>
> Bull. If profit is the name of the game, then ROI is the vehicle. I
> eliminate most situations that over a period of time, are not much better
> than break even propositions. guess what happens to my ROI? I optimize to
> what I think is the cream of the overlays and always at a price (min. 3-1.
> used to be 5-1)

The problem comes when one increases their bet size, especially in the
exotics.


>> >How many can go to the track/OTB and
>> > not play a single race all day?
>>
>> No race should ever be passed. Racing luck evens out the more one plays.
>>
> Do you buy into every mutual fund on the stock market?

More like "does one own a mutual fund every day."



>> >How many could do it for a whole week? And
>> > of course your odds line is also a means of 'when'.
>>
>> The method can be applied to every race.
>>
> it's an odds line. of course it applies to every race. still, does not
> mean
> it should be played every race.

Or that it shouldn't. Depends on who is making the line.


>> >> The value line is just the beginning, however, because the power
>> >> rating
>> >> can
>> >> be used as a building block for research into every other area of the
>> >> sport.
>> >> Wherever a speed figure was used, the power rating will be more
>> >> accurate,
>> >> and this will make the research that much more powerful.
>> >>
>> > It sounds as if you haven't done any of this further research yourself,
>> > as
>> > of yet.
>>
>> It's in progress.
>>
>>
> let me know how long it takes you to realise that the limits of the
> statistics have already been reached.

Because you say so? You'll be waiting a very long time.

How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?


--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/
--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




23 Feb 2007 08:19:34
g Wayne
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:30:34 UTC, "Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot""
<[email protected] > wrote:

> >> I have a profitable ROI with this method, and can prove it. And have, in
> >> fact. Several times.
> >>
> > never said you didn't. Now try it as your sole source of income.
>
> That's the cart before the horse, as one has to be in pretty good shape to
> begin with and at that point they usually earn money doing other things.
>
a profitable ROI is the horse, not the cart. proving it "Several times" is
the cart. Now go fill it.

> Money follows knowledge and not the other way around. Earning a living is
> the last stop on that train, not the first.
>
I was on the train for many years. got off at the last stop 3 1/2 years
ago.
>
> > different formulas/combinations to the same overall line of thinking does
> > not equate to 'new' in my book. you're still limited to the accuracy
> > constraints of the statistics used.
>
> Unless someone has published my specific conversion equation, my work is
> new. Not all "value lines" are created equal.
>
I'm not so arrogant as to think that anything I have conceived hasn't been
thought of or tried before by someone, somewhere in the history of horse
racing whether published or not.
>
>
>
> >> If my odds line is more accurate, every race becomes an opportunity.
> >>
> > not necessesarily a good opportunity
>
> If the public has messed up, it is.
>
there's the 'when'
>
> >>
> > let me know how long it takes you to realise that the limits of the
> > statistics have already been reached.
>
> Because you say so? You'll be waiting a very long time.
>
Because, where you're going I've already been.

> How much are you ahead or behind betting this year?
>
you're certainly hung up on this subject. my monthly expenses are $$$. just
about two months have elapsed this year, so I'm at least two months worth
of $$$ ahead. Otherwise, I don't eat and I kinda like eating.


--

-- g Wayne --




24 Feb 2007 02:14:35
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

>> That's the cart before the horse, as one has to be in pretty good shape
>> to
>> begin with and at that point they usually earn money doing other things.
>>
> a profitable ROI is the horse, not the cart. proving it "Several times" is
> the cart. Now go fill it.

Don't need anyone's help to win, but thanks.

ROI is not the whole story, because it has to be sustainable, and the money
wagered can't be killing the price. If it's limited picks, it's limited
profits.


>> Money follows knowledge and not the other way around. Earning a living
>> is
>> the last stop on that train, not the first.
>>
> I was on the train for many years. got off at the last stop 3 1/2 years
> ago.

Without any proof of any profits.

Easy to mouth off on a newsgroup.




--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/




25 Feb 2007 06:26:25
g Wayne
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 07:14:35 UTC, "Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot""
<[email protected] > wrote:

> >> That's the cart before the horse, as one has to be in pretty good shape
> >> to
> >> begin with and at that point they usually earn money doing other things.
> >>
> > a profitable ROI is the horse, not the cart. proving it "Several times" is
> > the cart. Now go fill it.
>
> Don't need anyone's help to win, but thanks.

of course not, since all the experts preceeding you, didn't know what they
were doing. and I certainly made NO offer.

>
> ROI is not the whole story, because it has to be sustainable, and the money
> wagered can't be killing the price. If it's limited picks, it's limited
> profits.
>
even someone dumb as I am knows ROI of a few months is useless. the
terminology itself suggests sustained pace over the front runner. with a
+10 ROI, it takes 100k bet for a 10k profit. the only way to make a livable
profit without killing the price, is to bet outside the mutuel pools. and
very few people would have the balls to push a minimum 500k a year through
the windows. ROI is not what? ah limited picks. once again all the
preceeding published experts such as Ainsle, Byer, et al, didn't know what
they were doing either.
>
> >> Money follows knowledge and not the other way around. Earning a living
> >> is
> >> the last stop on that train, not the first.
> >>
> > I was on the train for many years. got off at the last stop 3 1/2 years
> > ago.
>
> Without any proof of any profits.

means nothing. I can manufacture proof of my 3 Masters Degrees which are
nonexistent, AND make it verifiable.
>
> Easy to mouth off on a newsgroup.
>
you're the one selling whatever it is you sell, not me. being a prospective
customer, I just raised some issues about your methods and the way you
addressed them was something less than desireable. defensive behaviour and
mild hostility. and when I bring up counterpoints based on others, plus my
own research, the hostility increases and we find out that you're the
'second cumming' of something. I only claimed that I have been playing
horses for the last 3 1/2 years as my sole source of income, and that it
pays the bills, not that I was better than anything. It was you're
perception and subsequent replies that turned toward this. Well I'm
certainly glad you don't need any help to win. For myself, since one can
ALWAYS improve, I'll investigate different perspectives if they are down an
avenue I've not travelled. But, in 35+ years, I've travelled a lot of
avenues.

Since what you have to offer, I'm not interested in, so there will be no
further replies/rebuttles. Sorry if my 'meet hostility with hostility'
upset you. Good luck.




"statistics are no substitute for good judgement" __ Henry Clay
--

-- g Wayne --




28 Feb 2007 03:42:46
Ray Gordon, creator of the piv
Re: The POWER RATING is the NEW key to profitability


> you're the one selling whatever it is you sell, not me. being a
> prospective
> customer,

Anyone who sells stuff will generally tell you the same thing: talkers don't
buy, and buyers don't talk.

>I just raised some issues about your methods and the way you
> addressed them was something less than desireable. defensive behaviour and
> mild hostility. and when I bring up counterpoints based on others, plus my
> own research, the hostility increases and we find out that you're the
> 'second cumming' of something. I only claimed that I have been playing
> horses for the last 3 1/2 years as my sole source of income, and that it
> pays the bills,

So his tax returns can verify all this then.



>not that I was better than anything. It was you're
> perception and subsequent replies that turned toward this. Well I'm
> certainly glad you don't need any help to win. For myself, since one can
> ALWAYS improve, I'll investigate different perspectives if they are down
> an
> avenue I've not travelled.

Unless he wants to flame the source of the new ideas, then he'll drop that
pretense.

>But, in 35+ years, I've travelled a lot of
> avenues.
>
> Since what you have to offer, I'm not interested in, so there will be no
> further replies/rebuttles. Sorry if my 'meet hostility with hostility'
> upset you. Good luck.

I don't get upset over stuff like that, but he's the one claiming to pay his
bills through betting and not backing it up.

Also, it's not exactly easy to fake betting records which are verifiable by
a third party.


--
Ray Gordon, Author
Price And Probability
http://www.cybersheet.com/horsepix.html

Learn to make an accurate odds line for horses with just a DRF!

The Hoops And Horses Blog:
http://raygordon.blogs.com/