28 Jul 2007 15:52:25
Danzig
Whitney

This is a tough race. Papi Chulo have a shot? Lawyer Ron...The list is long.

Tim Yatcak


28 Jul 2007 15:53:20
Danzig
Re: Whitney

Danzig wrote:
> This is a tough race. Papi Chulo have a shot? Lawyer Ron...The list is
> long.
>
> Tim Yatcak
even Brass Hat


01 Aug 2007 19:23:51
Danzig
Re: Whitney time in doubt

Danzig wrote:
> This is a tough race. Papi Chulo have a shot? Lawyer Ron...The list is
> long.
>
> Tim Yatcak
Lawyer Ron ran a huge race winning the Whitney Saturday afternoon, but
his reported track-record time of 1:46.64 is so completely out of whack
with the other races on the Saratoga card that there is serious doubt
about whether the clocking was accurate.

"We're going to take a look at it," said NYRA chairman Steve Duncker.
"We don't want to establish a major track record like this by mistake."

Lawyer Ron supposedly smashed the mark of 1:47 set by Tri Jet in the
pre-100ths days of 1974 and equalled by Left Bank's 1:47.04 in the 2002
Whitney. The clocking immediately seemed odd to those who had just
watched Ginger Punch win the Grade 1 Go For Wand by 6 widening lengths
in 1:49.19 (2.55 seconds slower) only 31 minutes earlier. And when speed
handicappers sat down to review the entire day of racing at Saratoga,
the Whitney clocking stuck out like a badly-swollen thumb on a day that
was otherwise relatively straightforward.

On the Beyer Speed Figure scale, Ginger Punch earned a raw figure of
114. In her two previous starts, she had earned Beyers of 104 and 103
and this appeared to be a roughly similar performance, deserving of a
variant of around -10 that would have given her a final Beyer of 104.
But Lawyer Ron's raw figure in the Whitney was an astronomical 138, and
applying a variant of -10 again would give him an implausible figure of
128, a level reached only by Ghostzapper in the last decade.


02 Aug 2007 17:31:15
MAXdaAXEjd
Re: Whitney time in doubt

On Aug 2, 10:24 am, Danzig <[email protected] > wrote:
> Mustang5 wrote:
> > MAXdaAXEjd <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On Aug 1, 12:23 pm, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> Danzig wrote:
> >>>> This is a tough race. Papi Chulo have a shot? Lawyer Ron...The list is
> >>>> long.
> >>>> Tim Yatcak
> >>> Lawyer Ron ran a huge race winning the Whitney Saturday afternoon, but
> >>> his reported track-record time of 1:46.64 is so completely out of whack
> >>> with the other races on the Saratoga card that there is serious doubt
> >>> about whether the clocking was accurate.
>
> >>> "We're going to take a look at it," said NYRA chairman Steve Duncker.
> >>> "We don't want to establish a major track record like this by mistake."
>
> >>> Lawyer Ron supposedly smashed the mark of 1:47 set by Tri Jet in the
> >>> pre-100ths days of 1974 and equalled by Left Bank's 1:47.04 in the 2002
> >>> Whitney. The clocking immediately seemed odd to those who had just
> >>> watched Ginger Punch win the Grade 1 Go For Wand by 6 widening lengths
> >>> in 1:49.19 (2.55 seconds slower) only 31 minutes earlier. And when speed
> >>> handicappers sat down to review the entire day of racing at Saratoga,
> >>> the Whitney clocking stuck out like a badly-swollen thumb on a day that
> >>> was otherwise relatively straightforward.
>
> >>> On the Beyer Speed Figure scale, Ginger Punch earned a raw figure of
> >>> 114. In her two previous starts, she had earned Beyers of 104 and 103
> >>> and this appeared to be a roughly similar performance, deserving of a
> >>> variant of around -10 that would have given her a final Beyer of 104.
> >>> But Lawyer Ron's raw figure in the Whitney was an astronomical 138, and
> >>> applying a variant of -10 again would give him an implausible figure of
> >>> 128, a level reached only by Ghostzapper in the last decade.
> >> i think it was legit, i saw the race live and saw the fractions, and
> >> how it was done, he freaked, when i saw the race i said that was a
> >> ghostzapper type performance..diaolical went 108 and 3 earlier in they
> >> day, and ginger punchs 149.1 was about over no lady secrets or bayokoa
> >> types...
>
> >> i dont know what beyer gave, and his numbers dont really seem to be
> >> consistent anymore, but diabolical should have gottten a 108ish fig
> >> gingerpunch maybe a 104 and and lawyer 122 or so...wandering boy who
> >> ran great maybe a 113
>
> > His time has been verified according to BloodHorse.com.
>
> Final time is acceptable, but a third quarter in 22.91? Secretariat
> didn't even do that when he broke the world's record at the distance at
> Belmont.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh



03 Aug 2007 01:27:51
Danzig
Re: Whitney time in doubt so is source for comments here

MAXdaAXEjd wrote:
> On Aug 2, 10:24 am, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Mustang5 wrote:
>>> MAXdaAXEjd <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> On Aug 1, 12:23 pm, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Danzig wrote:
>>>>>> This is a tough race. Papi Chulo have a shot? Lawyer Ron...The list is
>>>>>> long.
>>>>>> Tim Yatcak
>>>>> Lawyer Ron ran a huge race winning the Whitney Saturday afternoon, but
>>>>> his reported track-record time of 1:46.64 is so completely out of whack
>>>>> with the other races on the Saratoga card that there is serious doubt
>>>>> about whether the clocking was accurate.
>>>>> "We're going to take a look at it," said NYRA chairman Steve Duncker.
>>>>> "We don't want to establish a major track record like this by mistake."
>>>>> Lawyer Ron supposedly smashed the mark of 1:47 set by Tri Jet in the
>>>>> pre-100ths days of 1974 and equalled by Left Bank's 1:47.04 in the 2002
>>>>> Whitney. The clocking immediately seemed odd to those who had just
>>>>> watched Ginger Punch win the Grade 1 Go For Wand by 6 widening lengths
>>>>> in 1:49.19 (2.55 seconds slower) only 31 minutes earlier. And when speed
>>>>> handicappers sat down to review the entire day of racing at Saratoga,
>>>>> the Whitney clocking stuck out like a badly-swollen thumb on a day that
>>>>> was otherwise relatively straightforward.
>>>>> On the Beyer Speed Figure scale, Ginger Punch earned a raw figure of
>>>>> 114. In her two previous starts, she had earned Beyers of 104 and 103
>>>>> and this appeared to be a roughly similar performance, deserving of a
>>>>> variant of around -10 that would have given her a final Beyer of 104.
>>>>> But Lawyer Ron's raw figure in the Whitney was an astronomical 138, and
>>>>> applying a variant of -10 again would give him an implausible figure of
>>>>> 128, a level reached only by Ghostzapper in the last decade.
>>>> i think it was legit, i saw the race live and saw the fractions, and
>>>> how it was done, he freaked, when i saw the race i said that was a
>>>> ghostzapper type performance..diaolical went 108 and 3 earlier in they
>>>> day, and ginger punchs 149.1 was about over no lady secrets or bayokoa
>>>> types...
>>>> i dont know what beyer gave, and his numbers dont really seem to be
>>>> consistent anymore, but diabolical should have gottten a 108ish fig
>>>> gingerpunch maybe a 104 and and lawyer 122 or so...wandering boy who
>>>> ran great maybe a 113
>>> His time has been verified according to BloodHorse.com.
>> Final time is acceptable, but a third quarter in 22.91? Secretariat
>> didn't even do that when he broke the world's record at the distance at
>> Belmont.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh
>
Secretariat broke the world's record for NINE FURLONGS AT BELMONT and
that was the race the 23.4 came from. Next time you jump to conclusions
I would check my sources first. LESSON LEARNED: never assume


03 Aug 2007 01:39:41
Danzig
Re: Whitney time in doubt


>> - Show quoted text -
>
> sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh
>
That was the Marlboro Cup September 15 1973 in 1:45 2/5 which was later
beaten by Simply Majestic


02 Aug 2007 19:27:56
MAXdaAXEjd
Re: Whitney time in doubt

On Aug 2, 6:39 pm, Danzig <[email protected] > wrote:
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh
>
> That was the Marlboro Cup September 15 1973 in 1:45 2/5 which was later
> beaten by Simply Majestic

9 furlongs is a 1 turn at belmont, so its not a genuine record



03 Aug 2007 04:05:15
Danzig
Re: Whitney time in doubt

MAXdaAXEjd wrote:
> On Aug 2, 6:39 pm, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh
>> That was the Marlboro Cup September 15 1973 in 1:45 2/5 which was later
>> beaten by Simply Majestic
>
> 9 furlongs is a 1 turn at belmont, so its not a genuine record
>
Strange as it was accepted by the Jockey Club, DRF and just about every
other governing body out there, but then again that doesn't "fit" so it
must be wrong. If anything, the fractions in that race would be higher
than last Saturday's "Worm hole" quarter.


03 Aug 2007 04:20:04
Danzig
Re: Whitney time in doubt TYPO

Danzig wrote:
> MAXdaAXEjd wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 6:39 pm, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> sec was 12 furlongs lr was 9 sheesh
>>> That was the Marlboro Cup September 15 1973 in 1:45 2/5 which was later
>>> beaten by Simply Majestic
>>
>> 9 furlongs is a 1 turn at belmont, so its not a genuine record
>>
> Strange as it was accepted by the Jockey Club, DRF and just about every
> other governing body out there, but then again that doesn't "fit" so it
> must be wrong. If anything, the fractions in that race would be higher
> than last Saturday's "Worm hole" quarter.
Fractions should be faster in the one turn move