30 Nov 2006 16:30:48
Danzig
for G man

yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe


30 Nov 2006 17:14:07
G-Man
Re: for G man


"Danzig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe

Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.

IMHO US houses and road systems are superior to the UK. The weather is far
better in a lot of places.

US horseracing has several advantages over the UK - sectional timing and the
information in the racecards make it far easier to know how a race has been
run. This makes it far easier to pick winners.

The disadvantages are the tracks - very boring, oversized dish-licking
tracks. The biggest problems are the Pool monopoly and the taxing of
winnings - virtually impossible to make a living from betting.



Cheers,
G-Man

There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't worry,
they wont let me in :-)




30 Nov 2006 17:33:25
G-Man
Re: for G man


"G-Man" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe
>
> Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.
>
> IMHO US houses and road systems are superior to the UK. The weather is far
> better in a lot of places.
>
> US horseracing has several advantages over the UK - sectional timing and
> the information in the racecards make it far easier to know how a race has
> been run. This makes it far easier to pick winners.
>
> The disadvantages are the tracks - very boring, oversized dish-licking
> tracks. The biggest problems are the Pool monopoly and the taxing of
> winnings - virtually impossible to make a living from betting.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> G-Man
>
> There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't worry,
> they wont let me in :-)

A high number of American races are claimers while in the UK most of the
races are handicaps. The former is far better as the latter is an invitation
to cheat.

Cheers,
G-Man



30 Nov 2006 17:41:13
Danzig
Re: for G man

G-Man wrote:
>
> "G-Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe
>>
>> Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.
>>
>>
>> There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't
>> worry, they wont let me in :-)
>
> A high number of American races are claimers while in the UK most of the
> races are handicaps. The former is far better as the latter is an
> invitation to cheat.
>
> Cheers,
> G-Man

spoken like a real inexperienced person. claimers are where the money is
to be made


30 Nov 2006 18:08:27
G-Man
Re: for G man


"Danzig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> G-Man wrote:
>>
>> "G-Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe
>>>
>>> Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't worry,
>>> they wont let me in :-)
>>
>> A high number of American races are claimers while in the UK most of the
>> races are handicaps. The former is far better as the latter is an
>> invitation to cheat.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> G-Man
>
> spoken like a real inexperienced person. claimers are where the money is
> to be made

Explain please.

Cheers,
G-Man



30 Nov 2006 18:18:47
Danzig
Re: for G man

G-Man wrote:
>
> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> G-Man wrote:
>>>
>>> "G-Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>
>>>> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe
>>>>
>>>> Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't
>>>> worry, they wont let me in :-)
>>>
>>> A high number of American races are claimers while in the UK most of
>>> the races are handicaps. The former is far better as the latter is an
>>> invitation to cheat.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> G-Man
>>
>> spoken like a real inexperienced person. claimers are where the money
>> is to be made
>
> Explain please.
>
> Cheers,
> G-Man
more money to be made following the up and down processes of the claimers


30 Nov 2006 18:25:55
G-Man
Re: for G man


"Danzig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> G-Man wrote:
>>
>> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> G-Man wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "G-Man" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>>
>>>>> "Danzig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>>> yes, according to you, EVERYTHING is better in Europe
>>>>>
>>>>> Well we don't have you over here so that has to be a huge plus.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are certain parts of the US I would like to live but, don't
>>>>> worry, they wont let me in :-)
>>>>
>>>> A high number of American races are claimers while in the UK most of
>>>> the races are handicaps. The former is far better as the latter is an
>>>> invitation to cheat.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> G-Man
>>>
>>> spoken like a real inexperienced person. claimers are where the money is
>>> to be made
>>
>> Explain please.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> G-Man
> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the claimers

Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in claimers?

Cheers,
G-Man



30 Nov 2006 18:54:49
Danzig
Re: for G man

G-Many is to be made
>>>
>>> Explain please.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> G-Man
>> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the claimers
>
> Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in claimers?
>
> Cheers,
> G-Man
having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
not rampant


30 Nov 2006 11:50:13
wolfagain
Re: for G man


Danzig wrote:
> G-Many is to be made
> >>>
> >>> Explain please.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> G-Man
> >> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the claimers
> >
> > Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in claimers?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > G-Man
> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
> not rampant
Gotta side with G-Man on this one. Horse racing should be about
improving the breed. Almost all cheap claimers have one thing in
common, Cheap breeding! Sirs that stand for $1000 or less! Richard
Hazelton once said a cheap stud fee is the most expensive thing in
horse racing. NOBODY is making money with 5K claimers! Euro horses are
far better bred than U.S. horses because there are NO claiming races,
maybe a few, but very few.



30 Nov 2006 21:28:05
G-Man
Re: for G man


"Danzig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> G-Many is to be made
>>>>
>>>> Explain please.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> G-Man
>>> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
>>> claimers
>>
>> Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in claimers?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> G-Man
> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is not
> rampant

In that case we both agree - the claiming system is superior in several
ways. It feels really good to be called inexperienced by someone who cannot
understand basic English i.e. the difference between "former" and "latter".

Cheers,
G-Man



30 Nov 2006 21:45:10
G-Man
Re: for G man


"wolfagain" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Danzig wrote:
>> G-Many is to be made
>> >>>
>> >>> Explain please.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cheers,
>> >>> G-Man
>> >> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
>> >> claimers
>> >
>> > Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in
>> > claimers?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > G-Man
>> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
>> not rampant
> Gotta side with G-Man on this one. Horse racing should be about
> improving the breed. Almost all cheap claimers have one thing in
> common, Cheap breeding! Sirs that stand for $1000 or less! Richard
> Hazelton once said a cheap stud fee is the most expensive thing in
> horse racing. NOBODY is making money with 5K claimers! Euro horses are
> far better bred than U.S. horses because there are NO claiming races,
> maybe a few, but very few.

Hi Wolfie,
That maybe so but, and it's a big but, trainers use handicaps to legally
cheat the system. Even the top trainers are at it. For example Sir Mark
Prescott regularly runs his 2 year olds in sprint races, when they are bred
to stay a lot further. Once they have run three times they will achieve a
handicap mark that in no way reflects their true ability. He then waits for
a suitable opportunity over 10 or 12 furlongs and they win several times.
The system really needs overhauling.

We do have claimers but, as you say, nowhere near as many as in the US.
Believe it or not, people get really attached to their horses and often,
when they are claimed, the owner & trainer get really upset because someone
"had the audacity" to claim their pet! We have even had situations where the
new owner has actually given the horse back to the old owner because of the
flak he received from people. This is truly pathetic and needs to be run on
similar lines to those in the US.

The only problem I have with US claimers, but you will obviously know more
than me, is that people can only claim pre-race. I think it is totally
unfair that a successful claimant still has to pay if the horse is fatally
injured during the race.

Cheers,
G-Man



30 Nov 2006 21:27:24
Jimbo
Re: for G man


"Danzig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> G-Many is to be made
>>>>
>>>> Explain please.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> G-Man
>>> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
>>> claimers
>>
>> Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in claimers?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> G-Man
> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is not
> rampant


When and who did you work for?




01 Dec 2006 00:50:56
wolfagain
Re: for G man


G-Man wrote:
> "wolfagain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Danzig wrote:
> >> G-Many is to be made
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Explain please.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >>> G-Man
> >> >> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
> >> >> claimers
> >> >
> >> > Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in
> >> > claimers?
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > G-Man
> >> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
> >> not rampant
> > Gotta side with G-Man on this one. Horse racing should be about
> > improving the breed. Almost all cheap claimers have one thing in
> > common, Cheap breeding! Sirs that stand for $1000 or less! Richard
> > Hazelton once said a cheap stud fee is the most expensive thing in
> > horse racing. NOBODY is making money with 5K claimers! Euro horses are
> > far better bred than U.S. horses because there are NO claiming races,
> > maybe a few, but very few.
>
> Hi Wolfie,
> That maybe so but, and it's a big but, trainers use handicaps to legally
> cheat the system. Even the top trainers are at it. For example Sir Mark
> Prescott regularly runs his 2 year olds in sprint races, when they are bred
> to stay a lot further. Once they have run three times they will achieve a
> handicap mark that in no way reflects their true ability. He then waits for
> a suitable opportunity over 10 or 12 furlongs and they win several times.
> The system really needs overhauling.
>
> We do have claimers but, as you say, nowhere near as many as in the US.
> Believe it or not, people get really attached to their horses and often,
> when they are claimed, the owner & trainer get really upset because someone
> "had the audacity" to claim their pet! We have even had situations where the
> new owner has actually given the horse back to the old owner because of the
> flak he received from people. This is truly pathetic and needs to be run on
> similar lines to those in the US.
>
> The only problem I have with US claimers, but you will obviously know more
> than me, is that people can only claim pre-race. I think it is totally
> unfair that a successful claimant still has to pay if the horse is fatally
> injured during the race.
>
> Cheers,
> G-Man
About horses who run for the last time for former owners. Said owners
aren't supposed to know that a claim on their horse has been dropped in
the box BUT they almost always know! Especially at the smaller tracks.
Rumors run rampant when this happens. The betting public would be well
advised with this info. But they aren't. Said horses will NOT hold
anything back!



01 Dec 2006 09:41:50
G-Man
Re: for G man


"wolfagain" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> G-Man wrote:
>> "wolfagain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > Danzig wrote:
>> >> G-Many is to be made
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Explain please.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Cheers,
>> >> >>> G-Man
>> >> >> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
>> >> >> claimers
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in
>> >> > claimers?
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > G-Man
>> >> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
>> >> not rampant
>> > Gotta side with G-Man on this one. Horse racing should be about
>> > improving the breed. Almost all cheap claimers have one thing in
>> > common, Cheap breeding! Sirs that stand for $1000 or less! Richard
>> > Hazelton once said a cheap stud fee is the most expensive thing in
>> > horse racing. NOBODY is making money with 5K claimers! Euro horses are
>> > far better bred than U.S. horses because there are NO claiming races,
>> > maybe a few, but very few.
>>
>> Hi Wolfie,
>> That maybe so but, and it's a big but, trainers use handicaps to legally
>> cheat the system. Even the top trainers are at it. For example Sir Mark
>> Prescott regularly runs his 2 year olds in sprint races, when they are
>> bred
>> to stay a lot further. Once they have run three times they will achieve a
>> handicap mark that in no way reflects their true ability. He then waits
>> for
>> a suitable opportunity over 10 or 12 furlongs and they win several times.
>> The system really needs overhauling.
>>
>> We do have claimers but, as you say, nowhere near as many as in the US.
>> Believe it or not, people get really attached to their horses and often,
>> when they are claimed, the owner & trainer get really upset because
>> someone
>> "had the audacity" to claim their pet! We have even had situations where
>> the
>> new owner has actually given the horse back to the old owner because of
>> the
>> flak he received from people. This is truly pathetic and needs to be run
>> on
>> similar lines to those in the US.
>>
>> The only problem I have with US claimers, but you will obviously know
>> more
>> than me, is that people can only claim pre-race. I think it is totally
>> unfair that a successful claimant still has to pay if the horse is
>> fatally
>> injured during the race.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> G-Man
> About horses who run for the last time for former owners. Said owners
> aren't supposed to know that a claim on their horse has been dropped in
> the box BUT they almost always know! Especially at the smaller tracks.
> Rumors run rampant when this happens. The betting public would be well
> advised with this info. But they aren't. Said horses will NOT hold
> anything back!

Hi Wolfie,
In the UK you can only claim after the race, within 15 minutes of the
off-time. You don't need to be at the track. As long as you are registered
with the BHB you can ring up and stake your claim.

Cheers,
G-Man



01 Dec 2006 12:47:34
lescor
Re: for G man

lescor wrote:

> G-Man wrote:
>
>>
>> "wolfagain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>>
>>> Danzig wrote:
>>>
>>>> G-Many is to be made
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Explain please.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Cheers,
>>>> >>> G-Man
>>>> >> more money to be made following the up and down processes of the
>>>> >> claimers
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you also saying that there is a lot of cheating going on in >
>>>> claimers?
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers,
>>>> > G-Man
>>>> having worked on the backstrech for a spell, I know there is but it is
>>>> not rampant
>>>
>>>
>>> Gotta side with G-Man on this one. Horse racing should be about
>>> improving the breed. Almost all cheap claimers have one thing in
>>> common, Cheap breeding! Sirs that stand for $1000 or less! Richard
>>> Hazelton once said a cheap stud fee is the most expensive thing in
>>> horse racing. NOBODY is making money with 5K claimers! Euro horses are
>>> far better bred than U.S. horses because there are NO claiming races,
>>> maybe a few, but very few.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Wolfie,
>> That maybe so but, and it's a big but, trainers use handicaps to
>> legally cheat the system. Even the top trainers are at it. For
>> example Sir Mark Prescott regularly runs his 2 year olds in sprint
>> races, when they are bred to stay a lot further. Once they have run
>> three times they will achieve a handicap mark that in no way reflects
>> their true ability. He then waits for a suitable opportunity over 10
>> or 12 furlongs and they win several times. The system really needs
>> overhauling.
>>
>> We do have claimers but, as you say, nowhere near as many as in the
>> US. Believe it or not, people get really attached to their horses and
>> often, when they are claimed, the owner & trainer get really upset
>> because someone "had the audacity" to claim their pet! We have even
>> had situations where the new owner has actually given the horse back
>> to the old owner because of the flak he received from people. This is
>> truly pathetic and needs to be run on similar lines to those in the US.
>
>
>
> The different training set-ups in Europe make the change of
> owner/trainer a bigger task than in the US where it is often just a
> short walk to a new barn. I am not suggesting that moving a few
> hundred miles to a new stable environment and different gallops are
> detrimental to the horse as the opposite is often the result of a
> move, but simply. it isn't quite as easy taking a horse from, maybe,
> the only home it has ever known to one which is entirely different in
> all respects.
>
> But apart from that minor matter, I could not disagree more about the
> need for more claiming races at the expense of handicaps in the UK
> although I accept that the second has always been open to sharp
> practices. The fact is they also attract the most betting revenue. The
> challenge of whether 'A' is 8lb better than 'B' over 7F is one which
> punters seem unable to ignore.
>
> But there is a more fundamental reason for not wanting the change. It
> is too easy to get horsey and sentimental about the bond between the
> animals, the owners and even the public, but in a simple practical way
> it lies at the heart of the health of our racing. The difference was
> obvious in my visits to US tracks. Why the cold obligatory pose for a
> photo with so little affection for the horse, compared to the joy of
> winning owners of a comparable small race in the UK ? Almost
> certainly because the animal might not be with them for long owing to
> the amount of claimers. Maybe it was newly acquired?
>
> Am I overstating it to say that, apart from the occasional champion
> which attracts the general public, the US bread and butter race horse
> is treated in a far more functional way than here? Isn't it treated as
> just a part of a very efficient betting system where they are mainly
> referred to by number, escorted to the start as if in custody, and
> likely to change hands at regular intervals.
>
> I enjoy my visits to US racing. I enjoy the chat with other punters,
> but in honesty, the uniformity of tracks and, even more, the
> functional treatment of the contestants, whilst being very efficient,
> maybe comes at too high a price? The long term affection between
> owners and horses in the UK, which you reject as "pathetic". is just
> part of the best things in our imperfect system. It could be argued
> that this quality lies at the base of our rejection of performance
> enhancing and masking drugs? It is one small but important part of a
> colourful whole.
>
> So, no argument from me that claimers might be fairer in the long run.
> but the cost is too high. As they have proved in the US at their
> standard meeting, constructing race meeting simply on the basis of
> efficiency produces a bland product and an atmosphere as cold as a
> witches tit.
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
>
>
>