02 Sep 2005 09:44:59
ellis_jay
horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

Yeah, boy. On topic for sure.

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/002458.html

--

Their ethics are a short summary of police ordinances: for them the most
important thing is to be a useful member of the state, and to air their
opinions in the club of an evening; they have never felt the homesickness
for something unknown and far away, nor the depths which consists in being
nothing at all.
___________Soren Kierkegaard

Ellis_jay




02 Sep 2005 08:21:25
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

For the 100k who didn't evacuate the area, maybe it wasn't such a good
idea!



02 Sep 2005 10:24:25
ellis_jay
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

[email protected] wrote:
> For the 100k who didn't evacuate the area, maybe it wasn't such a good
> idea!

Or maybe there was too much month at the end of the money and lots and lots
of folks could not afford gas to burn while in the traffic jams.

--

Their ethics are a short summary of police ordinances: for them the
most important thing is to be a useful member of the state, and to air
their opinions in the club of an evening; they have never felt the
homesickness for something unknown and far away, nor the depths which
consists in being nothing at all. ___________Soren Kierkegaard

Ellis_jay




02 Sep 2005 09:25:43
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

>Or maybe there was too much month at the end of the money and >lots and lots
>of folks could not afford gas to burn while in the traffic jams.

That viscious hurricane waited until the end of the month to strike!
It knew the poor would be tapped-out. How cunning!

How many ways were there out of that city? What is the maximum vehicle
load on a two lane, in one direction, highway? Use 4 lanes out if you
wish.
Bush's fault!

What in hell was Fats Domino doing there? He could have afforded to
leave, along with many other affluent, with his entire family but he
stayed and, ultimately, placed more demands on the rescue helicopters.
How about the tourists who ignored Nagin's warning about the potential
of the hurricane? Any fool could see when the hurricane left Florida
and was drifting South West! not North that it was probably going to
grow into a major storm and prudence dictated- MOVE!
For the affluent and tourists who stayed it became a "Masque of The Red
Death". For the poor it's the way it has always been. Heart rending.
Bush's fault!

Should there be more shelters? Where?
Should a city like New Orleans have more evacuation routes? Where to
build them? Whose money?
The governors have very impressive powers under their state
constitutions. What would everyone have said had the governors declared
martial law, demanded everyone leave, and the hurricane faded?
Of course it's all the President's fault. Perfectly clear to one who
blindly loathes him and that EVIL Karl Rove.
Thanks again for bringing politics into this so quickly.
I apologize to all for starting this thread.
Joe



02 Sep 2005 12:08:44
ellis_jay
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

[email protected] wrote:
>> Or maybe there was too much month at the end of the money and >lots
>> and lots of folks could not afford gas to burn while in the traffic
>> jams.
>
> That viscious hurricane waited until the end of the month to strike!
> It knew the poor would be tapped-out. How cunning!

You make fun of people on SS checks, retirement, and SSI checks? Joe, you
are better than that!



> How many ways were there out of that city? What is the maximum vehicle
> load on a two lane, in one direction, highway? Use 4 lanes out if you
> wish.

Did you notice on the boob tube showing the flight from the city? The
northbound interstate was bumper to bumper. The other four lanes were
empty. Common sense dictates that all lanes should have been pointed out of
the city. I wondered at the time what was the deal with that!

> Bush's fault!

Never his fault! Someone prodded the cuts to New Orleans to fix the levies.
Who was it then? Nope. They are not under the desk. Not here under the
coffee table. Not over here by the window hiding behind the curtains!
Where is that nasty person responsible for infrastructure neglect? IS the
President of the United States responsible for ANYTHING at all? It does not
appear that he is. Why then do we need a do nothing leader? Why vote?


> What in hell was Fats Domino doing there?

Dunno.

> He could have afforded to
> leave, along with many other affluent, with his entire family but he
> stayed and, ultimately, placed more demands on the rescue helicopters.

Speaking of that. Where are the fucking C-130 Hercules transports? Where
were the C-123 Caribou transports? Where were the Chinook helicopters?
Where were the Huey's? Where were the half-tracks? Where were the Sikorsky
flying cranes? Some body sat on there asses and decisions were not made in
a timely fashion. Some administration we have. Inept fuckers.

> How about the tourists who ignored Nagin's warning about the potential
> of the hurricane?

Tourists do not watch tv.

>Any fool could see when the hurricane left Florida
> and was drifting South West! not North that it was probably going to
> grow into a major storm and prudence dictated- MOVE!

Many had no where to go, I am sure.

"Get out the roll aways, company's coming!"

> For the affluent and tourists who stayed it became a "Masque of The
> Red Death". For the poor it's the way it has always been. Heart
> rending. Bush's fault!

I did not see many white people in camera range, although I am sure there
are plenty.

> Should there be more shelters? Where?

SO where do they run, as you lambaste the remaing folk?

> Should a city like New Orleans have more evacuation routes? Where to
> build them? Whose money?

Like I said 4 lanes were not even being used to evacuate.

> The governors have very impressive powers under their state
> constitutions. What would everyone have said had the governors
> declared martial law,

From my understanding only the President can declare marshall law.


> demanded everyone leave, and the hurricane
> faded?
> Of course it's all the President's fault. Perfectly clear

>to one who
> blindly loathes him

NO. Joe, he got that the old fashioned way-he earned it.


> and that EVIL Karl Rove.

First thing you said that is remotely close to the truth.

> Thanks again for bringing politics into this so quickly.
> I apologize to all for starting this thread.
> Joe

Thank your chimp for being a divider. His record speaks volumes.


""A warrior takes responsibility for his acts, for the most trivial of
acts.
An average man acts out his thoughts, and never takes responsibility
for what he does.""

___Carlos Castaneda

--

Their ethics are a short summary of police ordinances: for them the
most important thing is to be a useful member of the state, and to air
their opinions in the club of an evening; they have never felt the
homesickness for something unknown and far away, nor the depths which
consists in being nothing at all. ___________Soren Kierkegaard

Ellis_jay




02 Sep 2005 12:57:15
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

I'm not making fun of those people!
You mentioned they were out of money at the end of the month.
The hurricane arrived when it arrived. Had it hit in the middle of the
month -THE OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME!
Put aside your loathing of Bush for a moment.
How long have those people, who understand the engineering problems,
been saying New Orleans was just waiting to die?
Since the city's inception!
This hit was "only" a Cat 3 storm. Give us some numbers as to the cost
of preparing New Orleans for a storm comparable to the 1935? storm.
I've read it had 200+ MPH winds! Drop that storm in the Gulf and have
it move N at 12 MPH. The storm surge would exceed 40-50 feet! Now move
it's eye to Morgan City rather than Gulfport.
The death toll would exceed the disaster in the Indian Ocean if people
didn't get away from the coast.

>So where do they run? THEY CAN'T! Choke points. Every city has them.

Martial Law? The governors have that power in their respective states.
They might call it something else but if they say "blah, blah, the
powers invested in the office of governor, blah, blah, you will be
shot". It's a fact, if you don't do or do do, "blah, blah", you will be
shot. Your heirs and assigns can't even sue without the sovereign
state's permission. Fat chance of getting that.

>Speaking of that. Where are the fucking C-130 Hercules transports? Where
>the C-123 Caribou transports? Where were the Chinook helicopters?
>Where were the Huey's? Where were the half-tracks? Where were the Sikorsky
>flying cranes? Some body sat on there asses and decisions were not made in
>a timely fashion. Some administration we have. Inept fuckers.

You're a 'Big Government' guy. Blame the useless timeservers that stay
after whatever party comes to Washington.
I believe Truman said, paraphrasing, "Poor Ike. He'll give a command
and nothing will get done and he'll not know why".

>Tourists do not watch tv.
Yep. Their loss. "The Masque..."?

Ok, The next President is a Democrat. A huge storm explodes over the
Bahamas, moves up the Florida coast at 15 MPH, wiping out the East
Coast of Florida and comes ashore at the Georgia, Florida line. After
Savannah and Charleston are washed away it moves up along the
Appalachians and floods every city along its path and peters out just
before St John's NS. Will that "Chimp" president be responsible?

Sure she will.

Return to your loathing state now, please ;-)

Have a nice holiday in any event, and do what you can to help those
poor people.
Joe



02 Sep 2005 16:58:41
ellis_jay
Re: horses, new orleans,fema and inept Bush

[email protected] wrote:
> I'm not making fun of those people!

It came out sounding like you did, but I also think you did not mean it to
sound that way.

> You mentioned they were out of money at the end of the month.
> The hurricane arrived when it arrived. Had it hit in the middle of the
> month -THE OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME!

Probably not as there is more money on the first and third of the month
which would have given lots of people more options. Who really knows if
they would have exercised those options. It kinda reminds me of Grandpa
Joad in the "Grapes of Wrath" in that he did not want to leave Oklahoma to
go to California to pick fruit. I can see that happening, despite common
sense tugging on you to high tail it out of Dodge.
http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/Steinbeck/grapes.html

http://www.weedpatchcamp.com/

> Put aside your loathing of Bush for a moment.
> How long have those people, who understand the engineering problems,
> been saying New Orleans was just waiting to die?
> Since the city's inception!

Corps of Engineers? They have responsibility for the control and it is
exercised through their Memphis office. So says the Lt. General in charge
of the Corps of Engineers today on C-Span.

> This hit was "only" a Cat 3 storm.

Yes it was down graded. But from the reports I have been seeing,
authorities and scientists will be changing warnings because they
over-looked the fact that the ocean was churned, and remained
churned-characteristically with a Cat 4 or 5, thereby producing a surge
inconsistent with a Cat 3.

>Give us some numbers as to the cost
> of preparing New Orleans for a storm comparable to the 1935?

How can I do that when the Corps of Engineers are still running studies
that are a few years old, according to the LT. General on the bob tube
today?

> storm.
> I've read it had 200+ MPH winds! Drop that storm in the Gulf and have
> it move N at 12 MPH. The storm surge would exceed 40-50 feet! Now
> move it's eye to Morgan City rather than Gulfport.
> The death toll would exceed the disaster in the Indian Ocean if people
> didn't get away from the coast.
>
>> So where do they run? THEY CAN'T! Choke points. Every city has them.

So you noticed the interstate had 4 lanes closed?


> Martial Law? The governors have that power in their respective states.
> They might call it something else but if they say "blah, blah, the
> powers invested in the office of governor, blah, blah, you will be
> shot". It's a fact, if you don't do or do do, "blah, blah", you will
> be shot. Your heirs and assigns can't even sue without the sovereign
> state's permission. Fat chance of getting that.
>
>> Speaking of that. Where are the fucking C-130 Hercules transports?
>> Where the C-123 Caribou transports? Where were the Chinook
>> helicopters?
>> Where were the Huey's? Where were the half-tracks? Where were the
>> Sikorsky flying cranes? Some body sat on there asses and decisions
>> were not made in a timely fashion. Some administration we have.
>> Inept fuckers.

> You're a 'Big Government' guy. Blame the useless timeservers that stay
> after whatever party comes to Washington.
> I believe Truman said, paraphrasing, "Poor Ike. He'll give a command
> and nothing will get done and he'll not know why".

Slick George came riding over the clouds from one direction just as the air
flotilla came flying in from the next. Nice photo op, and timely.not! How
stupid does he think Americans are?


>> Tourists do not watch tv.
> Yep. Their loss. "The Masque..."?
>
> Ok, The next President is a Democrat. A huge storm explodes over the
> Bahamas, moves up the Florida coast at 15 MPH, wiping out the East
> Coast of Florida and comes ashore at the Georgia, Florida line. After
> Savannah and Charleston are washed away it moves up along the
> Appalachians and floods every city along its path and peters out just
> before St John's NS. Will that "Chimp" president be responsible?
>
> Sure she will.

Did she vote with this President to reduce funds to the Corps of Engineers
for the New Orleans projects?

> Return to your loathing state now, please ;-)

What has this President done for this country Joe, that you make excuses for
him at every turn?

> Have a nice holiday in any event, and do what you can to help those
> poor people.
> Joe

Thanx. You and Marie the Handicapper have a nice holiday, too!!

*vbg*



--

Their ethics are a short summary of police ordinances: for them the
most important thing is to be a useful member of the state, and to air
their opinions in the club of an evening; they have never felt the
homesickness for something unknown and far away, nor the depths which
consists in being nothing at all. ___________Soren Kierkegaard

Ellis_jay