25 Dec 2005 21:02:01
Danzig
need info from Eruopean and Australian racing fans

Is there anyway that one could work out the equivalent of North Amercian
charts from video captures of your races?: i.e. are there markers on
course? (akin ot our 1/8th or 1/4 poles).

I know that the old Hong Kong Form used to publish photo's of the field
at the N.A. equivalent of the four calls of a race and one could work
out the position at the calls and then subtract beaten lengths from the
pace horse to get sectional times for each horse.


Any help apprecatied...

Tim Yatcak


25 Dec 2005 17:31:36
MMcC
Re: need info from Eruopean and Australian racing fans

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:02:01 GMT, Danzig <[email protected] > wrote:

>Is there anyway that one could work out the equivalent of North Amercian
>charts from video captures of your races?: i.e. are there markers on
>course? (akin ot our 1/8th or 1/4 poles).
>
>I know that the old Hong Kong Form used to publish photo's of the field
>at the N.A. equivalent of the four calls of a race and one could work
>out the position at the calls and then subtract beaten lengths from the
>pace horse to get sectional times for each horse.
>

I'd say that just about every racecourse in the world has furlong (or
200m) markers, for at least the last 4f.
Figuring out times from video capture would not always be feasible
beacause there are as many track configurations as there are courses
and camera angles are not always side views as they pass the 3/4 pole
1/2 pole because of this.

But the more important issue is why would you want this info? In most
racing juridications outside NA, they race the other horses in the
race, not the clock.
Add in the fact that courses are often so different from each
other.... a 6f race downhill at Brighton or Epsom is going to be way
faster than 6f on a stiff uphill all the way at the Curragh. For a
mile race you can have straight miles, one turn miles, two turn
miles, left handed miles, right handed miles, or even a mile race with
one left turn and one right in the same race.
Comparing times across tracks become meaningless. I suppose you could
compare times for races at the same track, but by and large horses
don't run over and over again at the same track for months at a time
like they do in North America (except maybe in places like Hong Kong).
When you look at PPs you will have horses that have ran at different
tracks over different configurations, so it can be hard to establish
patterns. Or at least the kind of patterns you're looking for.




26 Dec 2005 09:25:17
Lescor
Re: need info from Eruopean and Australian racing fans


"MMcC" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:02:01 GMT, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Is there anyway that one could work out the equivalent of North Amercian
>>charts from video captures of your races?: i.e. are there markers on
>>course? (akin ot our 1/8th or 1/4 poles).
>>
>>I know that the old Hong Kong Form used to publish photo's of the field
>>at the N.A. equivalent of the four calls of a race and one could work
>>out the position at the calls and then subtract beaten lengths from the
>>pace horse to get sectional times for each horse.
>>
>
> I'd say that just about every racecourse in the world has furlong (or
> 200m) markers, for at least the last 4f.
> Figuring out times from video capture would not always be feasible
> beacause there are as many track configurations as there are courses
> and camera angles are not always side views as they pass the 3/4 pole
> 1/2 pole because of this.
>
> But the more important issue is why would you want this info? In most
> racing juridications outside NA, they race the other horses in the
> race, not the clock.
> Add in the fact that courses are often so different from each
> other.... a 6f race downhill at Brighton or Epsom is going to be way
> faster than 6f on a stiff uphill all the way at the Curragh. For a
> mile race you can have straight miles, one turn miles, two turn
> miles, left handed miles, right handed miles, or even a mile race with
> one left turn and one right in the same race.
> Comparing times across tracks become meaningless. I suppose you could
> compare times for races at the same track, but by and large horses
> don't run over and over again at the same track for months at a time
> like they do in North America (except maybe in places like Hong Kong).
> When you look at PPs you will have horses that have ran at different
> tracks over different configurations, so it can be hard to establish
> patterns. Or at least the kind of patterns you're looking for.
>


All true, and the reason that sectional times, which are not too difficult
to produce, have been so slow to become a part of the European race
scene.
Even so, there are plenty of serious UK form readers who would welcome
them ( not me) because, although the track differences make it impossible
to directly transfer the form from one to the other, they feel that the
sectionals
would help them to judge the quality of placings after any particular race.
Questions like, "was a 12F race as slowly run as it appeared to be for the
first mile? "...... will have some clock proof to back opinions. So I
could see
that it would have its uses.

LC

There are those who want any stat possible, even





26 Dec 2005 23:33:29
Danzig
Re: need info from Eruopean and Australian racing fans

MMcC wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:02:01 GMT, Danzig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Is there anyway that one could work out the equivalent of North Amercian
>>charts from video captures of your races?: i.e. are there markers on
>>course? (akin ot our 1/8th or 1/4 poles).
>>
>>I know that the old Hong Kong Form used to publish photo's of the field
>>at the N.A. equivalent of the four calls of a race and one could work
>>out the position at the calls and then subtract beaten lengths from the
>>pace horse to get sectional times for each horse.
>>
>
>
> I'd say that just about every racecourse in the world has furlong (or
> 200m) markers, for at least the last 4f.
> Figuring out times from video capture would not always be feasible
> beacause there are as many track configurations as there are courses
> and camera angles are not always side views as they pass the 3/4 pole
> 1/2 pole because of this.
>
> But the more important issue is why would you want this info? In most
> racing juridications outside NA, they race the other horses in the
> race, not the clock.
> Add in the fact that courses are often so different from each
> other.... a 6f race downhill at Brighton or Epsom is going to be way
> faster than 6f on a stiff uphill all the way at the Curragh. For a
> mile race you can have straight miles, one turn miles, two turn
> miles, left handed miles, right handed miles, or even a mile race with
> one left turn and one right in the same race.
> Comparing times across tracks become meaningless. I suppose you could
> compare times for races at the same track, but by and large horses
> don't run over and over again at the same track for months at a time
> like they do in North America (except maybe in places like Hong Kong).
> When you look at PPs you will have horses that have ran at different
> tracks over different configurations, so it can be hard to establish
> patterns. Or at least the kind of patterns you're looking for.
>
>
without SOME attempt at standardization, comparison becomes too subjective