27 Jul 2004 09:19:58
tt
Favorite grass for putting?


My buddies and I accumulated a list of the type of grass used on the
greens for each of the local courses we play. None of us is by no means
an expert, but we do have our individual preferences, mine is for poana
(Poa Annua).

Even though Southern California plays predominantly poana greens, we do
have courses that feature bent grass and one that I know of that offers
bermuda greens.

The problem with poana, is that not all courses apply the proper care
for it, mostly for lack of funds. That's why you find the best poana
greens at the private clubs, to which I have occasional access to
through my men's club and special events.

Good poana greens are awesome. Can be fast and true with the proper
care. Bad poana greens can be bumpy, inconsistent, and hellish to putt
on. Tough to judge the pace and can't always count on a true roll.

The local courses with bent grass greens that we play have greens of
varying qualities and conditions, and the one course with bermuda greens
is always in terrific shape and is a pleasure to play.

The problem is, since we play a different course every week, we don't
get used to greens as players who stick to their home course do. The
textural differences between the various types of greens, and the
different levels of care for the same type of green...makes it tough.
However, I'm not as intimidated when playing a new course. I don't
change a thing, just take the time to get used to the different putting
surface. And let the putts roll as they may.

Anyone else play a different type of green every round? And how do you
adjust? Anyone use different putters/style/strategies for different
surfaces?

And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
other courses?







27 Jul 2004 14:55:45
David Goldstein
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt wrote:

<snipped >


> Anyone else play a different type of green every round? And how do you
> adjust? Anyone use different putters/style/strategies for different
> surfaces?

I have played golf course where you would think that the grass was
different from one green to the next :-) Using different putters is
actually a very good strategy: use a lighter putter for fast greens and
a sledgehammer for some of the greens I have putted on.

> And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
> other courses?

I usually hope that the practice green mirrors the greens on the
course--not always the case, though. I find that 15 minutes of putting
on the practice green is usually sufficient.

David



27 Jul 2004 18:23:06
Alan Campbell
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

In article <[email protected] >, tt
<[email protected]_links.net > writes
>
>My buddies and I accumulated a list of the type of grass used on the
>greens for each of the local courses we play. None of us is by no means
>an expert, but we do have our individual preferences, mine is for poana
>(Poa Annua).
>
>Even though Southern California plays predominantly poana greens, we do
>have courses that feature bent grass and one that I know of that offers
>bermuda greens.
>
>The problem with poana, is that not all courses apply the proper care
>for it, mostly for lack of funds. That's why you find the best poana
>greens at the private clubs, to which I have occasional access to
>through my men's club and special events.
>
>Good poana greens are awesome. Can be fast and true with the proper
>care. Bad poana greens can be bumpy, inconsistent, and hellish to putt
>on. Tough to judge the pace and can't always count on a true roll.
>
>The local courses with bent grass greens that we play have greens of
>varying qualities and conditions, and the one course with bermuda greens
>is always in terrific shape and is a pleasure to play.
>
>The problem is, since we play a different course every week, we don't
>get used to greens as players who stick to their home course do. The
>textural differences between the various types of greens, and the
>different levels of care for the same type of green...makes it tough.
>However, I'm not as intimidated when playing a new course. I don't
>change a thing, just take the time to get used to the different putting
>surface. And let the putts roll as they may.
>
>Anyone else play a different type of green every round? And how do you
>adjust? Anyone use different putters/style/strategies for different
>surfaces?
>
>And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
>other courses?
>
>
>
>
>
Does the Bermuda not tend to go dormant in the winter in California?
--
Alan Campbell
http://members.lycos.co.uk/greensman


27 Jul 2004 17:59:36
Jim Sabatke
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt wrote:
>
> My buddies and I accumulated a list of the type of grass used on the
> greens for each of the local courses we play. None of us is by no means
> an expert, but we do have our individual preferences, mine is for poana
> (Poa Annua).
>
> Even though Southern California plays predominantly poana greens, we do
> have courses that feature bent grass and one that I know of that offers
> bermuda greens.
>
> The problem with poana, is that not all courses apply the proper care
> for it, mostly for lack of funds. That's why you find the best poana
> greens at the private clubs, to which I have occasional access to
> through my men's club and special events.
>
> Good poana greens are awesome. Can be fast and true with the proper
> care. Bad poana greens can be bumpy, inconsistent, and hellish to putt
> on. Tough to judge the pace and can't always count on a true roll.
>
> The local courses with bent grass greens that we play have greens of
> varying qualities and conditions, and the one course with bermuda greens
> is always in terrific shape and is a pleasure to play.
>
> The problem is, since we play a different course every week, we don't
> get used to greens as players who stick to their home course do. The
> textural differences between the various types of greens, and the
> different levels of care for the same type of green...makes it tough.
> However, I'm not as intimidated when playing a new course. I don't
> change a thing, just take the time to get used to the different putting
> surface. And let the putts roll as they may.
>
> Anyone else play a different type of green every round? And how do you
> adjust? Anyone use different putters/style/strategies for different
> surfaces?
>
> And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
> other courses?
>
>

I like the astroturf in golf stores. The putters always
work great there!

--
Jim Sabatke
Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy
and good with ketchup.

NOTE: Please do not email me any attachments with Microsoft
extensions. They
are deleted on my ISP's server before I ever see them, and
no bounce message
is sent.


28 Jul 2004 01:42:57
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



Alan Campbell wrote:

> Does the Bermuda not tend to go dormant in the winter in California?

Yes it does, and I was wrong. The course I thought had Bermuda greens
actually has bent with poana mixed in, according to the pro shop (Los
Coyotes Country Club, Buena Park Ca.). Bermuda fairways.

Apologies. List already updated.

I'll add 2 strokes to my total next time out.







28 Jul 2004 02:31:30
bill-o
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

Alan Campbell wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, tt
> <[email protected]_links.net> writes
>
>>
>>
>
> Does the Bermuda not tend to go dormant in the winter in California?

Winter in CAL is NOW! At least in the Crunchy part of the
state. Just ask Mark Twain.


bill-o


27 Jul 2004 21:28:54
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

good question(s). unfortunately we don't have the options of putting on
level, with the grain, well manicured greens.w/grass species of our
choosing.

so to get in the real world - in your case - learn how to handle / enjoy
the greens you play on, it is a challenge, but a rewarding one that
takes little effort.

again, one must "case" the area they are about to putt on, and plan /
putt accordingly - for good results.

m h o
v =83e



27 Jul 2004 19:40:58
Ben
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt <[email protected]_links.net > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Even though Southern California plays predominantly poana greens, we do
> have courses that feature bent grass and one that I know of that offers
> bermuda greens.

Most of the courses up here in NoCal are also po. There are a couple
of bent grass courses that I know of - Cinnabar Hills and Coyote Creek
GC and one muni that features both po and bent, Santa Teresa GC. As
you would suspect, virulent weed that it is, the po has begun to take
root in the bent grass greens, and they have become an amalgam of the
two.

> Good poana greens are awesome. Can be fast and true with the proper
> care. Bad poana greens can be bumpy, inconsistent, and hellish to putt
> on. Tough to judge the pace and can't always count on a true roll.

This is true, and I guess it must be hell to care for, because I
recently played Pebble Beach where the greens are po, and they were
nothing special at all. They ran at about 8 or 9 and were not very
well manicured, as you might suspect for $400 on a course that
actually has less rounds played per day than you would think - last
tee time is 3:00 or so in the summer.

> The local courses with bent grass greens that we play have greens of
> varying qualities and conditions, and the one course with bermuda greens
> is always in terrific shape and is a pleasure to play.

I don't know of any Bermuda greens around here, but bent is always a
pleasure, as the rolls are truer than true when the surfaces are
properly cared for.

> And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
> other courses?

I play several different courses, but all except one have po of
roughly the same condidtion - pretty good. The problem that I have
with po is that no matter how well taken care of it is, it starts to
flower in the evening and becomes bumpy and highly unpredictable. If
I had a choice of surfaces, I'd have to go with a true bent grass - so
true a roll.

Ben


28 Jul 2004 06:20:23
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



David Goldstein wrote:
> I have played golf course where you would think that the grass was
> different from one green to the next

I can name quite a few that are like that.

> Using different putters is
> actually a very good strategy: use a lighter putter for fast greens and
> a sledgehammer for some of the greens I have putted on.

Good to know I'm not the only one who does that. A few weeks ago I
changed the grip on my lighter putter to a jumbo size and got used to
its feel. So now I just grip down for control on faster greens, and
that'll do until I put the same size grip on the heavier one.

>> And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you
>> play other courses?
>
>
> I usually hope that the practice green mirrors the greens on the
> course--not always the case, though. I find that 15 minutes of putting
> on the practice green is usually sufficient.

Same here.


Cheers.






28 Jul 2004 07:20:50
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



Ben wrote:

> Most of the courses up here in NoCal are also po. There are a couple
> of bent grass courses that I know of - Cinnabar Hills and Coyote Creek
> GC and one muni that features both po and bent, Santa Teresa GC. As
> you would suspect, virulent weed that it is, the po has begun to take
> root in the bent grass greens, and they have become an amalgam of the
> two.

That's how it is down here in SoCal. Mostly poana for the established
courses, while most of the newer courses are going bent grass. Black
Gold (Yorba Linda), Oak Creek (Irvine), Talega (San Clemente), Eagle
Glen (Corona), Tustin Ranch (Tustin), among others... are excellent bent
grass courses.

Unfortunately, with few exceptions, the best poana courses are country
club courses. Courses like Hacienda Heights (La Habra), Yorba Linda CC,
Newport Beach CC, and many others... feature excellent well cared for
poana greens. Fast and true. Only problem is, I can't afford to play
them as much as I would like to.

>>Good poana greens are awesome. Can be fast and true with the proper
>>care. Bad poana greens can be bumpy, inconsistent, and hellish to putt
>>on. Tough to judge the pace and can't always count on a true roll.
>
>
> This is true, and I guess it must be hell to care for, because I
> recently played Pebble Beach where the greens are po, and they were
> nothing special at all. They ran at about 8 or 9 and were not very
> well manicured, as you might suspect for $400 on a course that
> actually has less rounds played per day than you would think - last
> tee time is 3:00 or so in the summer.

I played Torrey Pines South (where the Buick Classic was held earlier
this year) not too long ago. It was a 7 by the starter's estimate. The
greens let their hair down when the pros are not around it seems.

>>The local courses with bent grass greens that we play have greens of
>>varying qualities and conditions, and the one course with bermuda greens
>>is always in terrific shape and is a pleasure to play.
>
>
> I don't know of any Bermuda greens around here, but bent is always a
> pleasure, as the rolls are truer than true when the surfaces are
> properly cared for.

No Bermuda greens here. I was mistaken.

One thing that bothers me about bent grass greens here, is that on some
courses where there is a problem with players not fixing their ball
marks...the problem is more pronounced on bent greens than poana greens.
They can be badly pock marked and as bumpy as bad poana greens. True?

>>And if you play mostly your home course, how do you adjust when you play
>>other courses?
>
>
> I play several different courses, but all except one have po of
> roughly the same condidtion - pretty good. The problem that I have
> with po is that no matter how well taken care of it is, it starts to
> flower in the evening and becomes bumpy and highly unpredictable.

True. Uneven growth and seed heads. Not to mention that most greens are
made up of mixed strains of poana. Thus the inconsistency.

The good news is is can be mowed extremely close, as is done at the
better courses. My favorite, but I'll play anything...even Jim Sabatke's
astro turf :)

> I had a choice of surfaces, I'd have to go with a true bent grass - so
> true a roll.
>
> Ben

By the way, you used the term NoCal, I thought NoCals don't like the
term. Is that a Jim Rome influence? Do you also refer to yourself as a
battery-chucker? :) Just kidding. I don't like the guy. Just surprised
that Northern Californians listen to him at all. Only clones do here.

Cheers.





28 Jul 2004 13:14:14
David Goldstein
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt wrote:

<snipped >

>> Using different putters is actually a very good strategy: use a
>> lighter putter for fast greens and a sledgehammer for some of the
>> greens I have putted on.
>
>
> Good to know I'm not the only one who does that. A few weeks ago I
> changed the grip on my lighter putter to a jumbo size and got used to
> its feel. So now I just grip down for control on faster greens, and
> that'll do until I put the same size grip on the heavier one.

Well, as sacrireligious as it may sound, I only have one putter :-)
It is a very nice blade putter and is actually fairly light. It is a
great putter, when one practices a lot with it. Sort of like the
difference between blade irons and cavity-backs, if I were to compare it
to the more popular putters on the market.

As an interesting side note: I play Sunday mornings with a regular
group of guys. In the beginning, three of us were using blade
putters--out of 12 golfers, one of them being the club pro. Since the
others have begun playing with us, they have pretty much all switched to
blade putters. There are currently two golfers in the group looking for
blade putters, as well :-) I find it very amusing, but the three of us
that used the blade putters from the beginning are all very good
putters. I guess watching us putt has convinced all of them to switch.

Still, the idea should be the same--heavy putters for slow greens and
lighter putters for fast greens.

Have a great day!
David



<snipped >



28 Jul 2004 08:28:44
Ben
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt <[email protected]_links.net > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I played Torrey Pines South (where the Buick Classic was held earlier
> this year) not too long ago. It was a 7 by the starter's estimate. The
> greens let their hair down when the pros are not around it seems.

I played the North Course in June, and I liked the greens. They were
pretty true, not too bumpy, but pretty slow, as you stated. My
problem wasn't with the greens, it was with the lackluster fairways
and tee boxes.

> One thing that bothers me about bent grass greens here, is that on some
> courses where there is a problem with players not fixing their ball
> marks...the problem is more pronounced on bent greens than poana greens.
> They can be badly pock marked and as bumpy as bad poana greens. True?

Far worse then po, defintely. Bent is seemingly less dense than po,
and ball marks seem to not only run deeper, but also don't heal as
well as po if not taken care of properly - definite advantage to po
there.

> By the way, you used the term NoCal, I thought NoCals don't like the
> term. Is that a Jim Rome influence? Do you also refer to yourself as a
> battery-chucker? :) Just kidding. I don't like the guy. Just surprised
> that Northern Californians listen to him at all. Only clones do here.

I like Rome, but I'm definitely not a clone. I don't know if NoCal is
deragatory or not!

Ben


28 Jul 2004 16:25:53
Fred Taylor
Re: Favorite grass for putting?


"tt" <[email protected]_links.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> My buddies and I accumulated a list of the type of grass used on the
> greens for each of the local courses we play. None of us is by no means
> an expert, but we do have our individual preferences, mine is for poana
> (Poa Annua).

That's easy. My favorite grass for putting is Cannabis Sativa. It does
wonders for my short putts. On the longer ones, it's a little tougher
judging distance.




28 Jul 2004 17:10:47
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



Ben wrote:
> I played the North Course in June, and I liked the greens. They were
> pretty true, not too bumpy, but pretty slow, as you stated. My
> problem wasn't with the greens, it was with the lackluster fairways
> and tee boxes.

What other courses did you play down here, and how did you like them?

> I like Rome

That's ok, you'll live :)

> but I'm definitely not a clone.

You don't fit the profile. That honor is reserved to Jim Rome wannabes.
Especially SoCal ones.

> I don't know if NoCal is deragatory or not!

Shouldn't be. The way I remember Rome use it, was. I believe he also
coined the term "battery-chuckers" to deride Giants fans for pelting
Dodger outfielders with batteries at Candlestick one year.

I was into fantasy baseball and football in the early nineties and had
sports radio on for a good part of the day. He referred to us leaguers
as rotisserie geeks. He was dead to me from that point on (to borrow a
phrase). :)

Take care

Nick






28 Jul 2004 17:32:03
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



Fred Taylor wrote:

> That's easy. My favorite grass for putting is Cannabis Sativa. It does
> wonders for my short putts. On the longer ones, it's a little tougher
> judging distance.

Don't peek.

:)


28 Jul 2004 15:56:03
Ben
Re: Favorite grass for putting?

tt <[email protected]_links.net > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Ben wrote:
> > I played the North Course in June, and I liked the greens. They were
> > pretty true, not too bumpy, but pretty slow, as you stated. My
> > problem wasn't with the greens, it was with the lackluster fairways
> > and tee boxes.
>
> What other courses did you play down here, and how did you like them?

I posted this after my return:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22torrey%22+%22ben%22+group:rec.sport.golf&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.sport.golf&selm=39ea0964.0406132219.10732b96%40posting.google.com&rnum=1

In case the link doesn't work, I played Carmel Mtn. Ranch, and I
didn't like it at all. Dumb layout, crazy elevation changes, some
fairways are way too tight for a public course, etc. The course was
on good shape, but I just didn't care for it. Do you live in SD, btw?

Ben


29 Jul 2004 03:37:48
tt
Re: Favorite grass for putting?



Ben wrote:

> I posted this after my return:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22torrey%22+%22ben%22+group:rec.sport.golf&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=rec.sport.golf&selm=39ea0964.0406132219.10732b96%40posting.google.com&rnum=1

I read that when you posted it. Nice round!

> In case the link doesn't work, I played Carmel Mtn. Ranch, and I
> didn't like it at all. Dumb layout, crazy elevation changes, some
> fairways are way too tight for a public course, etc. The course was
> on good shape, but I just didn't care for it.

Thanks for the warning.

Do you live in SD, btw?

Orange County, but my buddies and I are venturing further away from our
base in search of new courses to play. Torrey Pines is as far south as
I've gone in California. Can't complain about our area here. We are
blessed with dozens of courses within 15-20 miles, and they keep opening
new ones every year. Ever play an Orange County course?

I've played 74 different courses in the last 7 years (California,
Nevada, Arizona, Maui, and Mexico), which is not exactly a badge of
honor since playing all those courses hasn't helped my game much. The
local driving range has.

Cheers.