24 May 2004 10:39:06
Space Cadet
Washington Paintball Death


Yes, it happened again. Why there is such a rash of these same type of
accidents I don't know, but it's certainly time to re-check those CO2
tanks!

And yes, as usual the reporting is pretty bad! "tanks shooting off
"without warning"..tanks "exploding" etc. I did like the one comment
that paintball is safer than golf though!

http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=31381


SC


24 May 2004 16:23:57
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

You would think that reporters have a better sense of how to accurately
report the news rather than make it sound as if it will cost the life of
every person involved. Unfortunately, like already said, accidents happen.
But, if you are not getting the right assistance when you purchase paintball
equipment from someone who knows the sport and business, you end up getting
conned and using faulty equipment that eventually reduces your life
expectancy.

Hence the reason people ask questions about where to look and how to buy.
Maybe some people can be more intelligent so that they don't end up in this
situation.

Jason

"Space Cadet" <Redwoodman8*nospam*@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Yes, it happened again. Why there is such a rash of these same type of
> accidents I don't know, but it's certainly time to re-check those CO2
> tanks!
>
> And yes, as usual the reporting is pretty bad! "tanks shooting off
> "without warning"..tanks "exploding" etc. I did like the one comment
> that paintball is safer than golf though!
>
> http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=31381
>
>
> SC




25 May 2004 01:52:09
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing the
tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm believer. I
don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read that
the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason that
struck humor in me.
--

-=GriFter=-

"Smack a taser on his nuts until his pubes fall out!"


"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| You would think that reporters have a better sense of how to accurately
| report the news rather than make it sound as if it will cost the life of
| every person involved. Unfortunately, like already said, accidents
happen.
| But, if you are not getting the right assistance when you purchase
paintball
| equipment from someone who knows the sport and business, you end up
getting
| conned and using faulty equipment that eventually reduces your life
| expectancy.
|
| Hence the reason people ask questions about where to look and how to buy.
| Maybe some people can be more intelligent so that they don't end up in
this
| situation.
|
| Jason
|
| "Space Cadet" <Redwoodman8*nospam*@yahoo.com > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
| >
| > Yes, it happened again. Why there is such a rash of these same type of
| > accidents I don't know, but it's certainly time to re-check those CO2
| > tanks!
| >
| > And yes, as usual the reporting is pretty bad! "tanks shooting off
| > "without warning"..tanks "exploding" etc. I did like the one comment
| > that paintball is safer than golf though!
| >
| > http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=31381
| >
| >
| > SC
|
|




24 May 2004 21:38:11
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Also consider how stupid you have to be to point the tank directly in your
direction. Let's think back to basic firearm and hunter safety...

Jason Lopez

"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
> difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
the
> tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm believer.
I
> don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read that
> the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason that
> struck humor in me.
> --
>
> -=GriFter=-
>
> "Smack a taser on his nuts until his pubes fall out!"
>
>
> "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> | You would think that reporters have a better sense of how to accurately
> | report the news rather than make it sound as if it will cost the life of
> | every person involved. Unfortunately, like already said, accidents
> happen.
> | But, if you are not getting the right assistance when you purchase
> paintball
> | equipment from someone who knows the sport and business, you end up
> getting
> | conned and using faulty equipment that eventually reduces your life
> | expectancy.
> |
> | Hence the reason people ask questions about where to look and how to
buy.
> | Maybe some people can be more intelligent so that they don't end up in
> this
> | situation.
> |
> | Jason
> |
> | "Space Cadet" <Redwoodman8*nospam*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]
> | >
> | > Yes, it happened again. Why there is such a rash of these same type of
> | > accidents I don't know, but it's certainly time to re-check those CO2
> | > tanks!
> | >
> | > And yes, as usual the reporting is pretty bad! "tanks shooting off
> | > "without warning"..tanks "exploding" etc. I did like the one comment
> | > that paintball is safer than golf though!
> | >
> | > http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=31381
> | >
> | >
> | > SC
> |
> |
>
>




25 May 2004 01:02:18
Jeff Goslin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

I'm personally trying to envision how that is possible. When I remove a
tank, it's generally pointing sort of at a 30 degree angle to my midline. I
have the barrel pointed at the ground, the receiver in one hand, and the
other wrapped around the tank, overhanded.

I suppose it could get deflected by your elbow or something, and get
diverted directly into your noggin, but that's about it. But... thinking
about it... if the tank DID come unscrewed from the valve, my overhand
removal technique would almost assure that even if it did hit my elbow that
it would go flying in some random other direction than AT MY HEAD... hrm...
still pondering.

Of course, there is the stupid way to remove a tank... with your forehead.
Put the barrel on the ground, and do that "run around the marker" thing
until you flop over on your side, unable to stand up straight. Nahhh...
even RETARDS would give up on that after a while. "derrr... it hurtsh mah
hedd"

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right


"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Also consider how stupid you have to be to point the tank directly in your
> direction. Let's think back to basic firearm and hunter safety...
>
> Jason Lopez
>
> "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
> > difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
> the
> > tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm
believer.
> I
> > don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read
that
> > the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason
that
> > struck humor in me.
> > --
> >
>
-=GriFter=-
> >
> > "Smack a taser on his nuts until his pubes fall out!"
> >
> >
> > "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > | You would think that reporters have a better sense of how to
accurately
> > | report the news rather than make it sound as if it will cost the life
of
> > | every person involved. Unfortunately, like already said, accidents
> > happen.
> > | But, if you are not getting the right assistance when you purchase
> > paintball
> > | equipment from someone who knows the sport and business, you end up
> > getting
> > | conned and using faulty equipment that eventually reduces your life
> > | expectancy.
> > |
> > | Hence the reason people ask questions about where to look and how to
> buy.
> > | Maybe some people can be more intelligent so that they don't end up in
> > this
> > | situation.
> > |
> > | Jason
> > |
> > | "Space Cadet" <Redwoodman8*nospam*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > | news:[email protected]
> > | >
> > | > Yes, it happened again. Why there is such a rash of these same type
of
> > | > accidents I don't know, but it's certainly time to re-check those
CO2
> > | > tanks!
> > | >
> > | > And yes, as usual the reporting is pretty bad! "tanks shooting off
> > | > "without warning"..tanks "exploding" etc. I did like the one
comment
> > | > that paintball is safer than golf though!
> > | >
> > | > http://www.komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=31381
> > | >
> > | >
> > | > SC
> > |
> > |
> >
> >
>
>




25 May 2004 06:27:19
Billy Goodman
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Over a dozen tanks were confiscated by the guys doing the fills at the field
where I played this weekend because the valves were loose. If I am not
mistaken, most of them were new, and most of them were the same brand of tank -
although I can't exactly remember which brand and don't want to start any
unneccessary rumors.
The field owner said he was not sure if the tanks were not being properly
tightened, or if an unreliable thread locking compound was being used or what.
But the tanks were re-tightened with lock-tite and given back to the players a
day later.


Billy Goodman -
Pukin Dogs
http://www.pukindogspaintball.com



25 May 2004 12:17:24
Lee Drake
Re: Washington Paintball Death


"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
> difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
the
> tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm believer.
I
> don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read that
> the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason that
> struck humor in me.


Unfortunately it's not necessarily the unscrewer who gets screwed. The Mom
that got killed was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tend to
agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you couldn't design the
threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in them about 1/2 way up so
that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2 would vent out the sides instead
of rocketting the unit off the back. I believe that in the end they will
find this is a poor design and require CO2 cartridges to be redesigned in a
safer manner (at no more expense probably).

Cheers,
Firefly




25 May 2004 09:20:56
Randy Given
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> Also consider how stupid you have to be to point the tank directly in your
> direction. Let's think back to basic firearm and hunter safety...

That may be part of the problem. How many kids go through those courses
these days? Very few. Kids are kids, but most of them are even more at a
disadvantage than us old farts.




25 May 2004 09:22:25
Randy Given
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> Over a dozen tanks were confiscated by the guys doing the fills at the
field
> where I played this weekend because the valves were loose. If I am not
> mistaken, most of them were new, and most of them were the same brand of
tank -
> although I can't exactly remember which brand and don't want to start any
> unneccessary rumors.
> The field owner said he was not sure if the tanks were not being properly
> tightened, or if an unreliable thread locking compound was being used or
what.
> But the tanks were re-tightened with lock-tite and given back to the
players a
> day later.

Can you name that field? That is excellent that they did that and it is the
kind of field I like to play on. Safety is paramount.




25 May 2004 09:25:45
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

That would definitely be an improvement for safety purposes. Since the gas
isn't being projected one direction like a rocket, it won't go anywhere. A
simple modification of the threads and it would be possible.

Jason

"Lee Drake" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
> > difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
> the
> > tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm
believer.
> I
> > don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read
that
> > the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason
that
> > struck humor in me.
>
>
> Unfortunately it's not necessarily the unscrewer who gets screwed. The
Mom
> that got killed was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tend to
> agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you couldn't design
the
> threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in them about 1/2 way up so
> that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2 would vent out the sides
instead
> of rocketting the unit off the back. I believe that in the end they will
> find this is a poor design and require CO2 cartridges to be redesigned in
a
> safer manner (at no more expense probably).
>
> Cheers,
> Firefly
>
>




25 May 2004 12:28:55
Chris Phillipo
Re: Washington Paintball Death


> > > tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm
> believer.
> > I
> > > don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read
> that
> > > the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason
> that
> > > struck humor in me.
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately it's not necessarily the unscrewer who gets screwed. The
> Mom
> > that got killed was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tend to
> > agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you couldn't design
> the
> > threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in them about 1/2 way up so
> > that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2 would vent out the sides
> instead
> > of rocketting the unit off the back. I believe that in the end they will
> > find this is a poor design and require CO2 cartridges to be redesigned in
> a
> > safer manner (at no more expense probably).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Firefly
> >
>

Valves already have vent holes drilled into them for this purpose, and I
have witnessed them in action and the moron's reaction to it was to
unscrew it faster to save his precious o-ring. That's how these
accidents happen.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
http://www.ramsays-online.com


25 May 2004 11:09:03
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

And here I was looking for something more obvious. I had seen something
like that but never understood why it was there. Never occurred to me to
ask about it unless it started doing something strange. At least now I
know. Thanks for the information.

Jason

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> > > > tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm
> > believer.
> > > I
> > > > don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I
read
> > that
> > > > the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some
reason
> > that
> > > > struck humor in me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately it's not necessarily the unscrewer who gets screwed.
The
> > Mom
> > > that got killed was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I tend
to
> > > agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you couldn't
design
> > the
> > > threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in them about 1/2 way up
so
> > > that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2 would vent out the sides
> > instead
> > > of rocketting the unit off the back. I believe that in the end they
will
> > > find this is a poor design and require CO2 cartridges to be redesigned
in
> > a
> > > safer manner (at no more expense probably).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Firefly
> > >
> >
>
> Valves already have vent holes drilled into them for this purpose, and I
> have witnessed them in action and the moron's reaction to it was to
> unscrew it faster to save his precious o-ring. That's how these
> accidents happen.
> --
> _________________________
> Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia
> http://www.ramsays-online.com




25 May 2004 16:53:46
BillyJoeJimBob
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Lee Drake wrote:
>
> I tend to agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you
> couldn't design the threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in
> them about 1/2 way up so that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2
> would vent out the sides instead of rocketting the unit off the
> back.

Some CO2 tanks have "slots" or vent holes in the valve threading for
just this purpose. As Chris Phillipo pointed out, most folks tend
to unscrew their tanks faster when CO2 starts venting... gotta save
that precious 10 cent (if that) o-ring. Another option would be to
put a purge valve on every paintgun tank and require that the tank be
purged prior to removal from a paintgun... no pressure, no deadly
projectile, and sales from tank fills would go through the roof! :)

No idea how the paintball community would take such a requirement,
though... "What?! I have to refill my tank each time I remove it
from my paintgun? Hell no!"

BJJB


26 May 2004 00:37:20
Phelps
Re: Washington Paintball Death

In article <[email protected] >,
"Jeff Goslin" <[email protected] > wrote:

> I'm personally trying to envision how that is possible. When I remove a
> tank, it's generally pointing sort of at a 30 degree angle to my midline. I
> have the barrel pointed at the ground, the receiver in one hand, and the
> other wrapped around the tank, overhanded.

I usually invert the marker and hold it under my arm, barrel pointing
behind me. If I didn't make sure that I was safe 12 and 6, I can see
how it could turn into a missile if I wasn't paying attention to what
part was unscrewing.

--
Phelps <http://www.donotremove.netcolor=#0000FF> >
"You better slap a muzzle on that scaled down piece of evil." -- Space Ghost


26 May 2004 01:07:02
Lee Drake
Re: Washington Paintball Death


"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > > agree with the FTC on this one - I see no reason why you couldn't
design
> > the
> > > threads on the CO2 cartridge to have a groove in them about 1/2 way up
so
> > > that if you unscrewed it improperly the co2 would vent out the sides
> > instead
> > > of rocketting the unit off the back. I believe that in the end they
will
> > > find this is a poor design and require CO2 cartridges to be redesigned
in
> > > safer manner (at no more expense probably).
> Valves already have vent holes drilled into them for this purpose, and I
> have witnessed them in action and the moron's reaction to it was to
> unscrew it faster to save his precious o-ring. That's how these
> accidents happen.

Chris,

If the valve doesn't release the gas faster than you can unscrew - it's not
an adequate protection - that's why I suggested the thread cut. the faster
you unscrew the more gas gets released (sideways instead of like a rocket)
and the less likely there will be any left when you get to the end...

Cheers,
Firefly




26 May 2004 17:14:25
DGDevin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
> difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
the
> tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm believer.
I
> don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read that
> the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason that
> struck humor in me.
> --
>
> -=GriFter=-

What a revolting thing to post. Where was this kid supposed to learn this
stuff, with the non-existant instructions that come with most paintguns, at
the commercial field that might not even exist in his area? How many times
in your life have you come close to getting wiped out by something
electrical or chemical or mechanical because you didn't know what you were
doing? Never had an electric shock, never been almost crunched by some
machine, never come close to having a bad car accident? Bullshit.

This kid died because some cheap-ass campany sold a tank with a valve
improperly installed. His ignorance was just that, ignorance, not
stupidity, they are not the same thing. Now someone who laughs at a person
being killed like this, that calls the word "stupid" to mind.




29 May 2004 18:02:08
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

I think anything that has to do with paintball is labeled "This is not a
toy" and should be treated as such for this reason. If this kid was more
careful he wouldn't be dead right now. Instead this dumbass and many more
like him treat paintball markers and the such like nothing other than squirt
guns. Maybe some people need examples like this to show them that they are
not toys and should be treated carefully and to pay a little more attention
to what you are doing with it.

To answer your question, no, I have never come close to death in any
situations that I have not put myself in knowingly. I pay attention to what
I'm doing and watch out for the other dumbasses in the world.

I'm sorry you were revolted with my post. If you don't like the way
paintball gear is packaged with little instructions than do something about
it besides whining about it here. It's people like you and this dead kid
that everthing has to have a stupid label on it, such as a cup of coffee
"Caution: Contents Hot." No shit the contents are hot, it's coffee!! There
is very little common sense left in this world, too bad it can't be taught.
--


-=GriFter=-


"DGDevin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
|
| > Some people deserve to die if they're so stupid that they don't know the
| > difference between unscrewing the tank from their marker and unscrewing
| the
| > tank from the valve itself. Survival of the fittest, I'm a firm
believer.
| I
| > don't know about the rest of you, but I chuckled a little when I read
that
| > the tank shot off and hit him square in the forehead. For some reason
that
| > struck humor in me.
| > --
| >
|
-=GriFter=-
|
| What a revolting thing to post. Where was this kid supposed to learn this
| stuff, with the non-existant instructions that come with most paintguns,
at
| the commercial field that might not even exist in his area? How many
times
| in your life have you come close to getting wiped out by something
| electrical or chemical or mechanical because you didn't know what you were
| doing? Never had an electric shock, never been almost crunched by some
| machine, never come close to having a bad car accident? Bullshit.
|
| This kid died because some cheap-ass campany sold a tank with a valve
| improperly installed. His ignorance was just that, ignorance, not
| stupidity, they are not the same thing. Now someone who laughs at a
person
| being killed like this, that calls the word "stupid" to mind.
|
|




30 May 2004 22:13:04
DGDevin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> I think anything that has to do with paintball is labeled "This is not a
> toy" and should be treated as such for this reason.

The first paintball fatality I ever heard of, at least one caused by
paintball equipment, was when a part-time paintball shop owner was killed by
a high-pressure fill station that apparently had an improper fitting
installed. This guy's day job was being a fireman, which means he was
trained in high-pressure breathing gear, which didn't prevent his accident.
So if a an adult with a demanding job and experience handling compressed gas
can die in this way, what chance does a kid have? Until the recent
fatalities, how many paintball players ever saw the kind of warning labels
that are now being slapped on everything? Where exactly was this kid
supposed to learn how to operate and maintain his gear, from The Psychic
Friends Network?

> I'm sorry you were revolted with my post.

No you're not, you intentionally used coarse and inflammatory language in
reference to this kid dying because it amused you to do so.

> It's people like you and this dead kid
> that everthing has to have a stupid label on it, such as a cup of coffee
> "Caution: Contents Hot." No shit the contents are hot, it's coffee!! There
> is very little common sense left in this world, too bad it can't be
taught.

Not to mention compassion, there's a shortage of that too, lots of
self-inflated tough guys around who like to sneer at other people's
misfortunes. Won't it be funny, the day you slip in your own bathtub and
decide to sue the soap company, wonder how tough you'll be then.




30 May 2004 18:26:42
Randy Given
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> So if a an adult with a demanding job and experience handling compressed
gas
> can die in this way, what chance does a kid have? Until the recent
> fatalities, how many paintball players ever saw the kind of warning labels
> that are now being slapped on everything? Where exactly was this kid
> supposed to learn how to operate and maintain his gear, from The Psychic
> Friends Network?

Certainly not from this Newsgroup. :)




01 Jun 2004 03:07:54
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Your bleeding heart has made me want to change my ways. I'll start taking
all the dumbass kids who can't figure out what part to unscrew from where
and show them the way. God forbid if they have to unscrew a jar of pickles,
or change a light-bulb. Hopefully if they can drive a car they can figure
out to turn the steering wheel back to a center postion in order to keep
their car on the road.

Since you feel so bad for this kid and others like him why don't you quit
your job and begin your own business educating people about paintball and
how to properly unscrew their gas tanks? Do something other than bitch and
moan here how you think that it's big business's fault that this kid died.
Knowingly that if he wasn't such a dumbass and was watching what he was
doing it would never have happened.

It sucks, people die, welcome to the real world.
--

-=GriFter=-

"Smack a taser on his nuts until his pubes fall out!"


"DGDevin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:Q%[email protected]
| "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
|
| > I think anything that has to do with paintball is labeled "This is not a
| > toy" and should be treated as such for this reason.
|
| The first paintball fatality I ever heard of, at least one caused by
| paintball equipment, was when a part-time paintball shop owner was killed
by
| a high-pressure fill station that apparently had an improper fitting
| installed. This guy's day job was being a fireman, which means he was
| trained in high-pressure breathing gear, which didn't prevent his
accident.
| So if a an adult with a demanding job and experience handling compressed
gas
| can die in this way, what chance does a kid have? Until the recent
| fatalities, how many paintball players ever saw the kind of warning labels
| that are now being slapped on everything? Where exactly was this kid
| supposed to learn how to operate and maintain his gear, from The Psychic
| Friends Network?
|
| > I'm sorry you were revolted with my post.
|
| No you're not, you intentionally used coarse and inflammatory language in
| reference to this kid dying because it amused you to do so.
|
| > It's people like you and this dead kid
| > that everthing has to have a stupid label on it, such as a cup of coffee
| > "Caution: Contents Hot." No shit the contents are hot, it's coffee!!
There
| > is very little common sense left in this world, too bad it can't be
| taught.
|
| Not to mention compassion, there's a shortage of that too, lots of
| self-inflated tough guys around who like to sneer at other people's
| misfortunes. Won't it be funny, the day you slip in your own bathtub and
| decide to sue the soap company, wonder how tough you'll be then.
|
|




31 May 2004 23:50:17
Gypsy06
Re: Washington Paintball Death

The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids demise
the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a matter
of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball safety"
bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid should have
known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but responsibility for
ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you don't
believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Your bleeding heart has made me want to change my ways. I'll start taking
> all the dumbass kids who can't figure out what part to unscrew from where
> and show them the way. God forbid if they have to unscrew a jar of
pickles,
> or change a light-bulb. Hopefully if they can drive a car they can figure
> out to turn the steering wheel back to a center postion in order to keep
> their car on the road.
>
> Since you feel so bad for this kid and others like him why don't you quit
> your job and begin your own business educating people about paintball and
> how to properly unscrew their gas tanks? Do something other than bitch and
> moan here how you think that it's big business's fault that this kid died.
> Knowingly that if he wasn't such a dumbass and was watching what he was
> doing it would never have happened.
>
> It sucks, people die, welcome to the real world.
> --
>
> -=GriFter=-
>
> "Smack a taser on his nuts until his pubes fall out!"
>
>
> "DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Q%[email protected]
> | "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]
> |
> | > I think anything that has to do with paintball is labeled "This is not
a
> | > toy" and should be treated as such for this reason.
> |
> | The first paintball fatality I ever heard of, at least one caused by
> | paintball equipment, was when a part-time paintball shop owner was
killed
> by
> | a high-pressure fill station that apparently had an improper fitting
> | installed. This guy's day job was being a fireman, which means he was
> | trained in high-pressure breathing gear, which didn't prevent his
> accident.
> | So if a an adult with a demanding job and experience handling compressed
> gas
> | can die in this way, what chance does a kid have? Until the recent
> | fatalities, how many paintball players ever saw the kind of warning
labels
> | that are now being slapped on everything? Where exactly was this kid
> | supposed to learn how to operate and maintain his gear, from The Psychic
> | Friends Network?
> |
> | > I'm sorry you were revolted with my post.
> |
> | No you're not, you intentionally used coarse and inflammatory language
in
> | reference to this kid dying because it amused you to do so.
> |
> | > It's people like you and this dead kid
> | > that everthing has to have a stupid label on it, such as a cup of
coffee
> | > "Caution: Contents Hot." No shit the contents are hot, it's coffee!!
> There
> | > is very little common sense left in this world, too bad it can't be
> | taught.
> |
> | Not to mention compassion, there's a shortage of that too, lots of
> | self-inflated tough guys around who like to sneer at other people's
> | misfortunes. Won't it be funny, the day you slip in your own bathtub
and
> | decide to sue the soap company, wonder how tough you'll be then.
> |
> |
>
>




01 Jun 2004 09:59:35
Randy Given
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
demise
> the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
> with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a matter
> of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball safety"
> bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid should
have
> known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but responsibility for
> ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you don't
> believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.

Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to stupidity,
it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and make
changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get put
into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the citizens
are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did something
about it").




01 Jun 2004 16:32:49
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2 people
have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use extreme
caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
anything in my way of assembly.
--


-=GriFter=-


"Randy Given" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:dZ%[email protected]
| > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
| demise
| > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
| > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
matter
| > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
safety"
| > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid should
| have
| > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but responsibility
for
| > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you don't
| > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
|
| Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to stupidity,
| it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and make
| changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
| especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get put
| into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
| expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
citizens
| are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did something
| about it").
|
|




01 Jun 2004 12:38:43
Insane Ranter
Re: Washington Paintball Death


"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
> those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
> assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
> someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2 people
> have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
extreme
> caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
> would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> anything in my way of assembly.

Well all it took was some stupid lady and putting something Roland McDonald
gave her between her legs...




01 Jun 2004 16:08:23
Jeff Goslin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Of course, that ignores the possibility that there are unreported non-deaths
where CO2 tanks become rockets and people sat around saying "geez, I'm glad
that didn't hit my head!". Two deaths doesn't equate to two tank failures,
it simply means that two of the X failures resulted in deaths. I'd be much
more interested, as a tank manufacturer, in knowing how many failures
occurred overall, rather than how many deaths resulted.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right


"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
> those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
> assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
> someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2 people
> have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
extreme
> caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
> would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> anything in my way of assembly.
> --
>
>
> -=GriFter=-
>
>
> "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:dZ%[email protected]
> | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
> | demise
> | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
> | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
> matter
> | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
> safety"
> | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
should
> | have
> | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but responsibility
> for
> | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
don't
> | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> |
> | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
stupidity,
> | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and make
> | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
> | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get
put
> | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
> | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
> citizens
> | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
something
> | about it").
> |
> |
>
>




01 Jun 2004 20:51:00
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

I was going to go into all that but I didn't want to ovely confuse Randy. I
didn't want to overload him for when he starts his research for his next
paintball item, or hobby.
--


-=GriFter=-


"Jeff Goslin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| Of course, that ignores the possibility that there are unreported
non-deaths
| where CO2 tanks become rockets and people sat around saying "geez, I'm
glad
| that didn't hit my head!". Two deaths doesn't equate to two tank
failures,
| it simply means that two of the X failures resulted in deaths. I'd be
much
| more interested, as a tank manufacturer, in knowing how many failures
| occurred overall, rather than how many deaths resulted.
|
| --
| Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
| It's not a god complex when you're always right
|
|
| "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
| > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
| > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
| > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
| > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2
people
| > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
| extreme
| > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
| > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
| > anything in my way of assembly.
| > --
| >
| >
| > -=GriFter=-
| >
| >
| > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > news:dZ%[email protected]
| > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
| > | demise
| > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
| > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
| > matter
| > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
| > safety"
| > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
| should
| > | have
| > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
responsibility
| > for
| > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
| don't
| > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
| > |
| > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
| stupidity,
| > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and
make
| > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
| > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get
| put
| > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
| > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
| > citizens
| > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
| something
| > | about it").
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|




01 Jun 2004 16:58:32
Daniel Martin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame the
bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about, there may be
more.
Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before the pop
off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank manufacturer that
ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they use have
bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe design,
or we won't buy!

Cheers

Dan




"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
> those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
> assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
> someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2 people
> have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
extreme
> caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
> would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> anything in my way of assembly.
> --
>
>
> -=GriFter=-
>
>
> "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:dZ%[email protected]
> | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
> | demise
> | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
> | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
> matter
> | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
> safety"
> | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
should
> | have
> | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but responsibility
> for
> | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
don't
> | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> |
> | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
stupidity,
> | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and make
> | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
> | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get
put
> | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
> | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
> citizens
> | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
something
> | about it").
> |
> |
>
>




01 Jun 2004 19:16:03
BillyJoeJimBob
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Insane Ranter wrote:
>
> Well all it took was some stupid lady and putting something Roland
> McDonald gave her between her legs...

Ah yes, Roland... Ronald's dumber clown brother. He's the one
responsible for all those clown-related pregnancies resulting
from his giving women something to stick between their legs.

What _is_ this world coming to...

BJJB


01 Jun 2004 19:21:01
BillyJoeJimBob
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Daniel Martin wrote:
>
> Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before
> the pop off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production
> costs significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .

Those vent holes are also prone to become clogged with loc-tite when
the tanks are hydroed or have a siphon/anti-siphon tube installed.
Just put a purge valve on each tank. When you're ready to remove the
tank from a paintgun, open the purge valve and vent all the remaining
pressure from the tank. No pressure, no rocket.

Who's willing to pay for a fill every time you remove a tank from a
paintgun? Show of hands?

BJJB


01 Jun 2004 20:04:02
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Personally, I don't want to pay for a refill every time I want to remove my
tank from my gun. You might have that much money to blow on cold air.
Obviously you let the hot air out first without considering the cold hard
cash that some people like to use in better places when it comes to
paintball: like paint. In my case, air is just as expensive as paint since
I an finishing up college. Most of my money goes to paying outrageously
high governmentally regulated tuition costs and overpriced books (30 pages
of black and white text for $45) that the professors never use but have to
recommend just because the college says they have to have a textbook. It's
wasted money.

Same the idea of putting an additional hole in the valve in order to
decrease the pressure coming off the gun. Might as well put a purge valve
on the gun so that there is no pressure coming off the gun. Or the tank for
that matter.

Don't give politicians something else to screw up our lives with just
because of the lack of responsibility and accountability of a few. That is
the reason that there is so much stupid firearm control today because
someone in the severe sorrow of the loss of a loved one complained to their
state politician and threatened to influence the next election. A paintball
gun, CO2, or anything else inanimate for that matter cannot kill anyone
unless there is an animate object on the other end controlling it. If that
animated object cannot properly control it, then it is the person to be
blamed, not the paper-weight (which is all you have if you take the animated
object (person) out of the equation.

Jason



"Daniel Martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame the
> bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about, there may
be
> more.
> Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before the
pop
> off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
> significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
> I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank manufacturer that
> ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they use
have
> bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe
design,
> or we won't buy!
>
> Cheers
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
> > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
> > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
> > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2
people
> > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
> extreme
> > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
> > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> > anything in my way of assembly.
> > --
> >
> >
> > -=GriFter=-
> >
> >
> > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:dZ%[email protected]
> > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
> > | demise
> > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
> > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
> > matter
> > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
> > safety"
> > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
> should
> > | have
> > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
responsibility
> > for
> > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
> don't
> > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> > |
> > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
> stupidity,
> > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and
make
> > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
> > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get
> put
> > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
> > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
> > citizens
> > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
> something
> > | about it").
> > |
> > |
> >
> >
>
>




01 Jun 2004 22:11:59
Daniel Martin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Not a bad idea if you ask me, CO2 is actually really cheap , similar to air
if you knwo how to buy it in bulk, I pay a buck canadian for a pound of
co2, and the guys I'm getting it from are makin money at that price. so
bucks get you maybe 4-5 decent fills.
Now I'll take you idea and modify it a bit, as I know you won't be offended
by technical improvements. Put a purge on an on off, in such a way that you
can't remove the tanks unitl you blow off the bit above the valve. The
pressure on the threads should easily keep the valve in the tank when there
is no pressure above the pin valve.
Your thoughts?


Dan

"BillyJoeJimBob" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Daniel Martin wrote:
> >
> > Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before
> > the pop off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production
> > costs significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
>
> Those vent holes are also prone to become clogged with loc-tite when
> the tanks are hydroed or have a siphon/anti-siphon tube installed.
> Just put a purge valve on each tank. When you're ready to remove the
> tank from a paintgun, open the purge valve and vent all the remaining
> pressure from the tank. No pressure, no rocket.
>
> Who's willing to pay for a fill every time you remove a tank from a
> paintgun? Show of hands?
>
> BJJB




01 Jun 2004 22:20:02
Daniel Martin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Well Jason, I didn't come up with the idea of the purge hole, I saw it on a
valve and though that that should be mandatory on all valves, so I can't
take credit.
So you're a college student, not taking economics I see. CO2 is cheap ,
almost free if you know where to look, and yes, I've gotten pounds and
pounds for free, and not from a paintball field.
There are many cheap and effective ways tanks can be contructed so that the
valves don't inadvertantly separate from the tanks, lock nuts and relief
valves are but 2. If you could turn off you tank and vent the remaining gas
that is present BEYOND the pin valve ( in the bottom line) , the pressure
inside the tank ( I believe )would keep the valve secure. That gas is
wasted anyways, so there is no monetary loss,

Dan

"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Personally, I don't want to pay for a refill every time I want to remove
my
> tank from my gun. You might have that much money to blow on cold air.
> Obviously you let the hot air out first without considering the cold hard
> cash that some people like to use in better places when it comes to
> paintball: like paint. In my case, air is just as expensive as paint
since
> I an finishing up college. Most of my money goes to paying outrageously
> high governmentally regulated tuition costs and overpriced books (30 pages
> of black and white text for $45) that the professors never use but have to
> recommend just because the college says they have to have a textbook.
It's
> wasted money.
>
> Same the idea of putting an additional hole in the valve in order to
> decrease the pressure coming off the gun. Might as well put a purge valve
> on the gun so that there is no pressure coming off the gun. Or the tank
for
> that matter.
>
> Don't give politicians something else to screw up our lives with just
> because of the lack of responsibility and accountability of a few. That
is
> the reason that there is so much stupid firearm control today because
> someone in the severe sorrow of the loss of a loved one complained to
their
> state politician and threatened to influence the next election. A
paintball
> gun, CO2, or anything else inanimate for that matter cannot kill anyone
> unless there is an animate object on the other end controlling it. If
that
> animated object cannot properly control it, then it is the person to be
> blamed, not the paper-weight (which is all you have if you take the
animated
> object (person) out of the equation.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame the
> > bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about, there
may
> be
> > more.
> > Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before the
> pop
> > off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
> > significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
> > I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank manufacturer
that
> > ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they use
> have
> > bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe
> design,
> > or we won't buy!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of
all
> > > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
> > > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
> > > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2
> people
> > > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
> > extreme
> > > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer
those
> > > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> > > anything in my way of assembly.
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > -=GriFter=-
> > >
> > >
> > > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:dZ%[email protected]
> > > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this
kids
> > > | demise
> > > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense
not
> > > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only
a
> > > matter
> > > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
> > > safety"
> > > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
> > should
> > > | have
> > > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
> responsibility
> > > for
> > > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
> > don't
> > > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> > > |
> > > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
> > stupidity,
> > > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and
> make
> > > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
> > > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations
get
> > put
> > > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
> > > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
> > > citizens
> > > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
> > something
> > > | about it").
> > > |
> > > |
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




02 Jun 2004 02:27:56
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Ok, I blame the other jackass too. I'm sure there were more but of course no
one heard about those because no one died. I'm with you on boycotting Co2
tanks and I promise you that I will never buy one again.

Long live HPA in a cradle with on/off's!
--


-=GriFter=-


"Daniel Martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame the
| bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about, there may
be
| more.
| Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before the
pop
| off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
| significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
| I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank manufacturer that
| ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they use
have
| bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe
design,
| or we won't buy!
|
| Cheers
|
| Dan
|
|
|
|
| "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
| > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of all
| > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This is
| > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with by
| > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2
people
| > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
| extreme
| > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer those
| > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
| > anything in my way of assembly.
| > --
| >
| >
| > -=GriFter=-
| >
| >
| > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > news:dZ%[email protected]
| > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this kids
| > | demise
| > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense not
| > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's only a
| > matter
| > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a "paintball
| > safety"
| > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
| should
| > | have
| > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
responsibility
| > for
| > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If you
| don't
| > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
| > |
| > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
| stupidity,
| > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball and
make
| > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats litigation,
| > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations get
| put
| > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice as
| > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
| > citizens
| > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
| something
| > | about it").
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|




01 Jun 2004 23:15:42
BillyJoeJimBob
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Daniel Martin wrote:
>
> Now I'll take you idea and modify it a bit, as I know you won't be
> offended by technical improvements. Put a purge on an on off, in
> such a way that you can't remove the tanks unitl you blow off the
> bit above the valve. The pressure on the threads should easily keep
> the valve in the tank when there is no pressure above the pin valve.
> Your thoughts?

The concept of making the tank non-removable until there is no
significant pressure downstream of the pin valve is interesting.
I use a drop-forward and on/off valve setup on my Automag because
I got sick and tired of not having an o-ring when I needed one.
For some reason my HPA tank would eat o-rings if there was pressure
downstream of the tank's pin valve. So, one on/off later I simply
turn the on/off to the off position, dry fire the paintgun a couple
of times, pop open a quick-disconnect, and the air line to the gun
is completely purged. The tanks comes off without eating any more
o-rings, and I don't have to worry about the wrong part unscrewing.

I have a similar setup for my old Tippmann, but the on/off is actually
part of the tank itself. There is no "pin" in the valve; rather,
there is a knob on the valve itself which opens and closes a small
hole leading down into the tank. Turn that knob to the off position,
dry fire a couple of times, and the tanks unscrews with no problems.

Maybe they ought to go back to knob-type valves instead of pin valves?

BJJB


01 Jun 2004 21:16:59
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is saving
money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have tried
to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am looking
for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your gun with
all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase you
don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to the
lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product to be
the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded minimum
specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults. Thereby
giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic business
marketing. Something you obviously did not take.

Jason

"Daniel Martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Well Jason, I didn't come up with the idea of the purge hole, I saw it on
a
> valve and though that that should be mandatory on all valves, so I can't
> take credit.
> So you're a college student, not taking economics I see. CO2 is cheap ,
> almost free if you know where to look, and yes, I've gotten pounds and
> pounds for free, and not from a paintball field.
> There are many cheap and effective ways tanks can be contructed so that
the
> valves don't inadvertantly separate from the tanks, lock nuts and relief
> valves are but 2. If you could turn off you tank and vent the remaining
gas
> that is present BEYOND the pin valve ( in the bottom line) , the pressure
> inside the tank ( I believe )would keep the valve secure. That gas is
> wasted anyways, so there is no monetary loss,
>
> Dan
>
> "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Personally, I don't want to pay for a refill every time I want to remove
> my
> > tank from my gun. You might have that much money to blow on cold air.
> > Obviously you let the hot air out first without considering the cold
hard
> > cash that some people like to use in better places when it comes to
> > paintball: like paint. In my case, air is just as expensive as paint
> since
> > I an finishing up college. Most of my money goes to paying outrageously
> > high governmentally regulated tuition costs and overpriced books (30
pages
> > of black and white text for $45) that the professors never use but have
to
> > recommend just because the college says they have to have a textbook.
> It's
> > wasted money.
> >
> > Same the idea of putting an additional hole in the valve in order to
> > decrease the pressure coming off the gun. Might as well put a purge
valve
> > on the gun so that there is no pressure coming off the gun. Or the tank
> for
> > that matter.
> >
> > Don't give politicians something else to screw up our lives with just
> > because of the lack of responsibility and accountability of a few. That
> is
> > the reason that there is so much stupid firearm control today because
> > someone in the severe sorrow of the loss of a loved one complained to
> their
> > state politician and threatened to influence the next election. A
> paintball
> > gun, CO2, or anything else inanimate for that matter cannot kill anyone
> > unless there is an animate object on the other end controlling it. If
> that
> > animated object cannot properly control it, then it is the person to be
> > blamed, not the paper-weight (which is all you have if you take the
> animated
> > object (person) out of the equation.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> > "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame
the
> > > bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about, there
> may
> > be
> > > more.
> > > Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before
the
> > pop
> > > off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
> > > significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
> > > I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank manufacturer
> that
> > > ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they use
> > have
> > > bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe
> > design,
> > > or we won't buy!
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out of
> all
> > > > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This
is
> > > > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered with
by
> > > > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made, 2
> > people
> > > > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the "Use
> > > extreme
> > > > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer
> those
> > > > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money changing
> > > > anything in my way of assembly.
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -=GriFter=-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:dZ%[email protected]
> > > > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for this
> kids
> > > > | demise
> > > > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common sense
> not
> > > > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's
only
> a
> > > > matter
> > > > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a
"paintball
> > > > safety"
> > > > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this kid
> > > should
> > > > | have
> > > > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
> > responsibility
> > > > for
> > > > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If
you
> > > don't
> > > > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> > > > |
> > > > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
> > > stupidity,
> > > > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball
and
> > make
> > > > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats
litigation,
> > > > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government regulations
> get
> > > put
> > > > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things twice
as
> > > > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and the
> > > > citizens
> > > > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
> > > something
> > > > | about it").
> > > > |
> > > > |
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




02 Jun 2004 04:27:42
J. Hoyt
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> Maybe they ought to go back to knob-type valves instead of pin valves?

Knob-type valves? Do you just mean on/off tanks?
That would be a great solution. It would only add about $5 on to the price
of a pin-valve CO2 tank and they're just way more convenient to have.




02 Jun 2004 17:15:04
-=GriFter=-
Re: Washington Paintball Death

**snip**
Welcome to international/domestic business
marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
**snip**


I think I skipped that class to enjoy life and get laid. But, whatever
floats your boat. Have fun in class, I'll think about you when I'm playing
paintball with my overpriced markers, drinking my expensive beer, and
watching my huge uber-expensive tv!
--


-=GriFter=-


"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is
saving
| money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have tried
| to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am looking
| for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your gun
with
| all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
| academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase you
| don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to the
| lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product to
be
| the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
| product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded minimum
| specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults. Thereby
| giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
| minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic business
| marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
|
| Jason
|
| "Daniel Martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
| > Well Jason, I didn't come up with the idea of the purge hole, I saw it
on
| a
| > valve and though that that should be mandatory on all valves, so I can't
| > take credit.
| > So you're a college student, not taking economics I see. CO2 is cheap ,
| > almost free if you know where to look, and yes, I've gotten pounds and
| > pounds for free, and not from a paintball field.
| > There are many cheap and effective ways tanks can be contructed so that
| the
| > valves don't inadvertantly separate from the tanks, lock nuts and
relief
| > valves are but 2. If you could turn off you tank and vent the remaining
| gas
| > that is present BEYOND the pin valve ( in the bottom line) , the
pressure
| > inside the tank ( I believe )would keep the valve secure. That gas is
| > wasted anyways, so there is no monetary loss,
| >
| > Dan
| >
| > "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > news:[email protected]
| > > Personally, I don't want to pay for a refill every time I want to
remove
| > my
| > > tank from my gun. You might have that much money to blow on cold air.
| > > Obviously you let the hot air out first without considering the cold
| hard
| > > cash that some people like to use in better places when it comes to
| > > paintball: like paint. In my case, air is just as expensive as paint
| > since
| > > I an finishing up college. Most of my money goes to paying
outrageously
| > > high governmentally regulated tuition costs and overpriced books (30
| pages
| > > of black and white text for $45) that the professors never use but
have
| to
| > > recommend just because the college says they have to have a textbook.
| > It's
| > > wasted money.
| > >
| > > Same the idea of putting an additional hole in the valve in order to
| > > decrease the pressure coming off the gun. Might as well put a purge
| valve
| > > on the gun so that there is no pressure coming off the gun. Or the
tank
| > for
| > > that matter.
| > >
| > > Don't give politicians something else to screw up our lives with just
| > > because of the lack of responsibility and accountability of a few.
That
| > is
| > > the reason that there is so much stupid firearm control today because
| > > someone in the severe sorrow of the loss of a loved one complained to
| > their
| > > state politician and threatened to influence the next election. A
| > paintball
| > > gun, CO2, or anything else inanimate for that matter cannot kill
anyone
| > > unless there is an animate object on the other end controlling it. If
| > that
| > > animated object cannot properly control it, then it is the person to
be
| > > blamed, not the paper-weight (which is all you have if you take the
| > animated
| > > object (person) out of the equation.
| > >
| > > Jason
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > > news:[email protected]
| > > > Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif, blame
| the
| > > > bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about,
there
| > may
| > > be
| > > > more.
| > > > Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long before
| the
| > > pop
| > > > off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
| > > > significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
| > > > I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank
manufacturer
| > that
| > > > ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they
use
| > > have
| > > > bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a safe
| > > design,
| > > > or we won't buy!
| > > >
| > > > Cheers
| > > >
| > > > Dan
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > > > news:[email protected]
| > > > > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out
of
| > all
| > > > > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity. This
| is
| > > > > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered
with
| by
| > > > > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being made,
2
| > > people
| > > > > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the
"Use
| > > > extreme
| > > > > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank manufacturer
| > those
| > > > > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money
changing
| > > > > anything in my way of assembly.
| > > > > --
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > > -=GriFter=-
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
| > > > > news:dZ%[email protected]
| > > > > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for
this
| > kids
| > > > > | demise
| > > > > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common
sense
| > not
| > > > > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's
| only
| > a
| > > > > matter
| > > > > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a
| "paintball
| > > > > safety"
| > > > > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this
kid
| > > > should
| > > > > | have
| > > > > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
| > > responsibility
| > > > > for
| > > > > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country. If
| you
| > > > don't
| > > > > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
| > > > > |
| > > > > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due to
| > > > stupidity,
| > > > > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the ball
| and
| > > make
| > > > > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats
| litigation,
| > > > > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government
regulations
| > get
| > > > put
| > > > > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things
twice
| as
| > > > > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and
the
| > > > > citizens
| > > > > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they "did
| > > > something
| > > > > | about it").
| > > > > |
| > > > > |
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|




02 Jun 2004 16:27:45
BillyJoeJimBob
Re: Washington Paintball Death

J. Hoyt wrote:
>
> > Maybe they ought to go back to knob-type valves instead of pin
> > valves?
>
> Knob-type valves? Do you just mean on/off tanks?

Yeah, that's the term. Forgive me... it had been a very long day. ;)

"Tell them to get over here!"
"But, how? They're like, a hundred yards away!"
"Use the... big-talky-thingy!"
"Oh, you mean the megaphone?"
"Um... yeah." ;)

BJJB


02 Jun 2004 20:38:01
J. Hoyt
Re: Washington Paintball Death

> > > Maybe they ought to go back to knob-type valves instead of pin
> > > valves?
> >
> > Knob-type valves? Do you just mean on/off tanks?
>
> Yeah, that's the term. Forgive me... it had been a very long day. ;)
>
> "Tell them to get over here!"
> "But, how? They're like, a hundred yards away!"
> "Use the... big-talky-thingy!"
> "Oh, you mean the megaphone?"
> "Um... yeah." ;)

"Marge! Where's that metal....dealy...that you use to dig....food?"
"You mean a spoon?"
"That's the one!"




02 Jun 2004 17:30:54
Daniel Martin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Oh I understand and have seen many instances of cost cutting to get a
product to market cheaper. I personally take my business elsewhere, always
have always will as quality seems to always suffer. In this case safety is
quality, and if the market wdeoesn't pay for it, it will end up pating for
it through legislation or higher costs due to insurance payouts. A simple
modification to the product will be cheaper in the long run.

AS for econimice and gov contracts, the company I work for has various gov.
contracts, and we are not the cheapest. In fact we told one of our better
clients, " Sure, you can get it cheaper, but we deliver EVERYTIME, On Time.
They stayed with us and paid the extra for the good service. Products are no
different. Oh sure, some contracts will go to the lowest bidder, but not all
my friend not all.
As for outfitting my guns with all the latest advances, while it's true I
run air on my basically stock piranha, most of the mods have been done by
me, sourcing out the parts, and in some instances, building them.
I run co2 on my other guns including my pmi Trracer pump. Why, cuz as I
said, co2 is cheap if you buy it in bulk.
Here's an idea, buy a used co2 extinguisher, drive it to a service depot and
get it filled, and hydroed if required. You will see that IN THE LONG RUN
you will pay less that a buck a fill. For a cheap fill station, get 10 000
psi line from pricessauto.com. get an on off asa adapter, screw it all
together to the extinguisher and you have a fill station.
And you are correct, I didn't take internation business, or business at all
for that matter, I took law enforcement, then worked in the financial
industry for 13 years, and now in the life safety field.



"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is
saving
> money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have tried
> to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am looking
> for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your gun
with
> all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
> academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase you
> don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to the
> lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product to
be
> the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
> product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded minimum
> specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults. Thereby
> giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
> minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic business
> marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
>





02 Jun 2004 16:03:24
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Eventually I'll be at the point that you are at. First, though, I need to
get some more money than what I currently have. Then I can sit back and
enjoy the paint flying by as I can afford the markers for the tourneys that
I would like to get in to. My ancient tippman wouldn't last 2 minutes
against some of the newer ones. It'll hold it's own in scenario paintball
games. But some of the tourneys that I would like to enter,... FORGET IT!!
I'm hosed every time.

Jason

"-=GriFter=-" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> **snip**
> Welcome to international/domestic business
> marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
> **snip**
>
>
> I think I skipped that class to enjoy life and get laid. But, whatever
> floats your boat. Have fun in class, I'll think about you when I'm playing
> paintball with my overpriced markers, drinking my expensive beer, and
> watching my huge uber-expensive tv!
> --
>
>
> -=GriFter=-
>
>
> "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> | That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is
> saving
> | money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have
tried
> | to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am looking
> | for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your gun
> with
> | all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
> | academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase you
> | don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to the
> | lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product
to
> be
> | the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
> | product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded
minimum
> | specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults.
Thereby
> | giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
> | minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic
business
> | marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
> |
> | Jason
> |
> | "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | news:[email protected]
> | > Well Jason, I didn't come up with the idea of the purge hole, I saw it
> on
> | a
> | > valve and though that that should be mandatory on all valves, so I
can't
> | > take credit.
> | > So you're a college student, not taking economics I see. CO2 is cheap
,
> | > almost free if you know where to look, and yes, I've gotten pounds and
> | > pounds for free, and not from a paintball field.
> | > There are many cheap and effective ways tanks can be contructed so
that
> | the
> | > valves don't inadvertantly separate from the tanks, lock nuts and
> relief
> | > valves are but 2. If you could turn off you tank and vent the
remaining
> | gas
> | > that is present BEYOND the pin valve ( in the bottom line) , the
> pressure
> | > inside the tank ( I believe )would keep the valve secure. That gas is
> | > wasted anyways, so there is no monetary loss,
> | >
> | > Dan
> | >
> | > "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | > news:[email protected]
> | > > Personally, I don't want to pay for a refill every time I want to
> remove
> | > my
> | > > tank from my gun. You might have that much money to blow on cold
air.
> | > > Obviously you let the hot air out first without considering the cold
> | hard
> | > > cash that some people like to use in better places when it comes to
> | > > paintball: like paint. In my case, air is just as expensive as
paint
> | > since
> | > > I an finishing up college. Most of my money goes to paying
> outrageously
> | > > high governmentally regulated tuition costs and overpriced books (30
> | pages
> | > > of black and white text for $45) that the professors never use but
> have
> | to
> | > > recommend just because the college says they have to have a
textbook.
> | > It's
> | > > wasted money.
> | > >
> | > > Same the idea of putting an additional hole in the valve in order to
> | > > decrease the pressure coming off the gun. Might as well put a purge
> | valve
> | > > on the gun so that there is no pressure coming off the gun. Or the
> tank
> | > for
> | > > that matter.
> | > >
> | > > Don't give politicians something else to screw up our lives with
just
> | > > because of the lack of responsibility and accountability of a few.
> That
> | > is
> | > > the reason that there is so much stupid firearm control today
because
> | > > someone in the severe sorrow of the loss of a loved one complained
to
> | > their
> | > > state politician and threatened to influence the next election. A
> | > paintball
> | > > gun, CO2, or anything else inanimate for that matter cannot kill
> anyone
> | > > unless there is an animate object on the other end controlling it.
If
> | > that
> | > > animated object cannot properly control it, then it is the person to
> be
> | > > blamed, not the paper-weight (which is all you have if you take the
> | > animated
> | > > object (person) out of the equation.
> | > >
> | > > Jason
> | > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | > > "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | > > news:[email protected]
> | > > > Actually, one was from someone else's stupidity.( c'mon Grif,
blame
> | the
> | > > > bystander, I dare ya ) Also consider, it's two we heard about,
> there
> | > may
> | > > be
> | > > > more.
> | > > > Tanks should have relief valves on the threads that vent long
before
> | the
> | > > pop
> | > > > off. drilling one hole ain't going to increase production costs
> | > > > significantly. ( I know some already do have the vent hole) .
> | > > > I would suggest that as a community, we boycott any tank
> manufacturer
> | > that
> | > > > ignores these deaths and doens't ensure that valve assemblies they
> use
> | > > have
> | > > > bypass holes. Perhaps a locking nut should be employed. Use a
safe
> | > > design,
> | > > > or we won't buy!
> | > > >
> | > > > Cheers
> | > > >
> | > > > Dan
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > > > "-=GriFter=-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | > > > news:[email protected]
> | > > > > How many Co2 tanks do you think are manufactured every year? Out
> of
> | > all
> | > > > > those tanks made, 2 people have died for their own stupidity.
This
> | is
> | > > > > assuming that it was the tank makers fault and wasn't tampered
> with
> | by
> | > > > > someone aftermarket. Now out of the millions of tanks being
made,
> 2
> | > > people
> | > > > > have died from not paying attention to detail and ignoring the
> "Use
> | > > > extreme
> | > > > > caution while using" notices, I think if I was a tank
manufacturer
> | > those
> | > > > > would be acceptable odds and I wouldn't spend tons of money
> changing
> | > > > > anything in my way of assembly.
> | > > > > --
> | > > > >
> | > > > >
> | > > >
-=GriFter=-
> | > > > >
> | > > > >
> | > > > > "Randy Given" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> | > > > > news:dZ%[email protected]
> | > > > > | > The point of all this is that regardless of the reason for
> this
> | > kids
> | > > > > | demise
> | > > > > | > the fact is that paintball equipment was involved. Common
> sense
> | > not
> | > > > > | > with-standing, if incidents like this continue to occur it's
> | only
> | > a
> | > > > > matter
> | > > > > | > of time unitl some legislator in some state proposes a
> | "paintball
> | > > > > safety"
> | > > > > | > bill that restricts or bans paintball in some way. Sure this
> kid
> | > > > should
> | > > > > | have
> | > > > > | > known the basics and taken basic safety precautions but
> | > > responsibility
> | > > > > for
> | > > > > | > ones own actions is not a popular concept in this country.
If
> | you
> | > > > don't
> | > > > > | > believe that look at the "assault weapons" ban.
> | > > > > |
> | > > > > | Right. Although I agree in large part that it was mostly due
to
> | > > > stupidity,
> | > > > > | it would be good for the manufacturers to get ahead of the
ball
> | and
> | > > make
> | > > > > | changes before government institutes them. It sure beats
> | litigation,
> | > > > > | especially if they lose. Besides, whenever government
> regulations
> | > get
> | > > > put
> | > > > > | into place, they almost always screw it up -- making things
> twice
> | as
> | > > > > | expensive, because of stupid regulations that do not work, and
> the
> | > > > > citizens
> | > > > > | are no safer (but the legislative fools are happy that they
"did
> | > > > something
> | > > > > | about it").
> | > > > > |
> | > > > > |
> | > > > >
> | > > > >
> | > > >
> | > > >
> | > >
> | > >
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>




02 Jun 2004 16:05:24
Jason Lopez
Re: Washington Paintball Death

Well, then you and I have some similar interests. My current job
applications are going to law enforcement. So maybe I'll check up with you
for pointers as I get closer.

Jason

"Daniel Martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Oh I understand and have seen many instances of cost cutting to get a
> product to market cheaper. I personally take my business elsewhere, always
> have always will as quality seems to always suffer. In this case safety is
> quality, and if the market wdeoesn't pay for it, it will end up pating for
> it through legislation or higher costs due to insurance payouts. A simple
> modification to the product will be cheaper in the long run.
>
> AS for econimice and gov contracts, the company I work for has various
gov.
> contracts, and we are not the cheapest. In fact we told one of our better
> clients, " Sure, you can get it cheaper, but we deliver EVERYTIME, On
Time.
> They stayed with us and paid the extra for the good service. Products are
no
> different. Oh sure, some contracts will go to the lowest bidder, but not
all
> my friend not all.
> As for outfitting my guns with all the latest advances, while it's true I
> run air on my basically stock piranha, most of the mods have been done by
> me, sourcing out the parts, and in some instances, building them.
> I run co2 on my other guns including my pmi Trracer pump. Why, cuz as I
> said, co2 is cheap if you buy it in bulk.
> Here's an idea, buy a used co2 extinguisher, drive it to a service depot
and
> get it filled, and hydroed if required. You will see that IN THE LONG RUN
> you will pay less that a buck a fill. For a cheap fill station, get 10
000
> psi line from pricessauto.com. get an on off asa adapter, screw it all
> together to the extinguisher and you have a fill station.
> And you are correct, I didn't take internation business, or business at
all
> for that matter, I took law enforcement, then worked in the financial
> industry for 13 years, and now in the life safety field.
>
>
>
> "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is
> saving
> > money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have
tried
> > to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am looking
> > for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your gun
> with
> > all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
> > academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase you
> > don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to the
> > lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product
to
> be
> > the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
> > product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded
minimum
> > specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults.
Thereby
> > giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
> > minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic
business
> > marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
> >
>
>
>




02 Jun 2004 21:52:09
Daniel Martin
Re: Washington Paintball Death

By all means, feel free to email me anytime!

Cheers

Dan


"Jason Lopez" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Well, then you and I have some similar interests. My current job
> applications are going to law enforcement. So maybe I'll check up with
you
> for pointers as I get closer.
>
> Jason
>
> "Daniel Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Oh I understand and have seen many instances of cost cutting to get a
> > product to market cheaper. I personally take my business elsewhere,
always
> > have always will as quality seems to always suffer. In this case safety
is
> > quality, and if the market wdeoesn't pay for it, it will end up pating
for
> > it through legislation or higher costs due to insurance payouts. A
simple
> > modification to the product will be cheaper in the long run.
> >
> > AS for econimice and gov contracts, the company I work for has various
> gov.
> > contracts, and we are not the cheapest. In fact we told one of our
better
> > clients, " Sure, you can get it cheaper, but we deliver EVERYTIME, On
> Time.
> > They stayed with us and paid the extra for the good service. Products
are
> no
> > different. Oh sure, some contracts will go to the lowest bidder, but not
> all
> > my friend not all.
> > As for outfitting my guns with all the latest advances, while it's true
I
> > run air on my basically stock piranha, most of the mods have been done
by
> > me, sourcing out the parts, and in some instances, building them.
> > I run co2 on my other guns including my pmi Trracer pump. Why, cuz as I
> > said, co2 is cheap if you buy it in bulk.
> > Here's an idea, buy a used co2 extinguisher, drive it to a service depot
> and
> > get it filled, and hydroed if required. You will see that IN THE LONG
RUN
> > you will pay less that a buck a fill. For a cheap fill station, get 10
> 000
> > psi line from pricessauto.com. get an on off asa adapter, screw it all
> > together to the extinguisher and you have a fill station.
> > And you are correct, I didn't take internation business, or business at
> all
> > for that matter, I took law enforcement, then worked in the financial
> > industry for 13 years, and now in the life safety field.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jason Lopez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > That's where you and I are different. The economics I have taken is
> > saving
> > > money in the long-run. I have an old Tippmann. Several people have
> tried
> > > to sell me the newer guns when mine serve the purposes that I am
looking
> > > for. You might be able to spend the money necessary to outfit your
gun
> > with
> > > all the possible advances. But, I don't have that kind of money. My
> > > academic major is International Business. Today's business, incase
you
> > > don't pay attention to government contracting deals, always goes to
the
> > > lowest bidder. If you can minimize the cost and still get the product
> to
> > be
> > > the best possible for the desired purposes, then you can market your
> > > product. If you think about the tank manufacturer, they exceeded
> minimum
> > > specifications enough to make it safe and give leeway for faults.
> Thereby
> > > giving the market (us as paintballers) the opportunity to buy it with
> > > minimal cost for a good thing. Welcome to international/domestic
> business
> > > marketing. Something you obviously did not take.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>