11 Jan 2004 02:39:45
Neil
Windsurfing back injury question

Hi,

I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when bending,
or driving my car.

Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months I
have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.

Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if I
get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
nature of our sport.

Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I could
do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
from windsurfers who have had back problems before.

thanks,

Neil




10 Jan 2004 20:06:18
Alan Sandoval
Re: Windsurfing back injury question


"Neil" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when
bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months
I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if
I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I
could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
> thanks,
>
> Neil
>
>

Get to a chiropractor who has experience in sports injuries. If you're in S
Calif I can recommend one who actually windsurfs.




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10 Jan 2004 20:26:11
Jeff F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

In my opinion stay away from chiropractors, they are modern versions of
snake oil salesman, it only works if you BELIEVE.

Go see a real sports medicine doctor, an MD. Insist on an MRI. If you do not
have any pain, tingling , or numbness in your legs you are probally ok. Also
find a windier location if you have a week back you should be water starting
only
and use nothing bigger than a 5.8 on 75carbon mast or higher for light
wieght and a carbon boom. Also carry your sail rig to the water's edge
seperatly from your board. And have someone else down haul your sail when
rigging up.

Regards
Jeff




11 Jan 2004 00:38:51
Mike LaRonde
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

I hurt my low back the same way. it was a season ender for me, and I got over it
the next year. lower back was fine for 4 years then one day I hurt it getting
out of bed too fast, and its still not right. moral of story: never stop PT.
ever.

but it is possible that if you are have not been treating it properly, and start
doing so now, it will be better in a week, even if it didn't get better in 2
months. if it is just a muscle strain this is reasonable. rest and moist heat
is the cure and can't hurt. also regular doses of Advil.

I would have moist heat on nearly 24/7 until the pain subsides. the best thing
you can get for this is the "Thermophore". get an inverter and you can use it
in your car. or just a microwaveable heat pack will do. if it does not respond
to rest and moist heat, then you may have a herniated disk, and your season is
probably over. but even these will usually heal on their own if they are minor,
albiet in a much longer time frame.

on the matter of chiropractors: there are many kinds of techiques they use and
many different skill levels. some are very good and
some can hurt you. the only reliable way to find a good one is by word of mouth.
even a good chiro can't help everyone: manipulation apparantly only helps
certain types of conditions. it is therefore not correct to say either "they are
no good" or "go see one". I don't think I'd be seeing one at this point.
especially if what you have is most likely a muscle strain. My philosophy is
that they are a tool, not a doctor. do NOT make one your primary source of care.
there are chiropractors who are very skilled at what they do but are idiots at
what they say: "keep coming back and I will fix all your problems". I am
convinced that they can sometimes help but this whole business of "cummulative"
adjustments is total B.S.. about the only thing it does is increase their chance
of eventually making an adjustment that helps. and sometimes adjustments make
you feel worse.

You should see a "normal" doctor if for no other reason than to get a script for
P.T. Learn the exersizes they show you and keep doing them. forever. I like to
use a swiss ball for low back strenthening but its very easy to over do it so be
careful.

I have some technique and gear advice for you also:

stop uphauling. its bad for your back! make a commitment to being able to
waterstart in all conditions.

buy a downhaul crank. nothing worse than tweaking your back before you even get
on the water. you will also find you do a better job of rigging your sails
properly, especially in overpowering conditions. get some extra line and be
careful when de-cleating.

good luck,
Mike



Neil wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
> thanks,
>
> Neil



11 Jan 2004 06:13:20
Steve Elliott
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Neil,

If you have a bad back, don't sail if you must uphaul. If you don't
waterstart, learn how immediately, if not sooner. If you do, don't go
out when you must waterstart. When your back heals, learn how to
waterstart the right way. Front leg in line with the spine, leaning
back, pretend there's a quarter stuck between your ass cheeks and try to
hold it there. If you lose control, do the tennis save thing. These are
all techniques in the mags or taught at clinics.

I've hurt my back so bad I had to take strong pain medication (the kind
that says not to drive), and lay down all day. Same day, I've gone out
in 5.0 weather, hooked in and planed away, never to feel even a twinge.
Sailing in the straps, hooked in and not uphauling is no strain on the
back. Now rigging is another issue entirely.

Steve

Neil wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
> thanks,
>
> Neil
>
>



10 Jan 2004 23:54:18
Alan Sandoval
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

On the chrioprachter thing;

A 'bad' chrioprachter crippled both my father and my brother. They got into
some kind of nonesense drill where they had to go there every day just to
function. No way would I be a part of that.

I had the good fortune to find a chrioprachter who was young enough to have
a good education, and he was also a windsurfer. I met him because of my
shop.

My experiece with modern chiropracty:

I had sciatica that was to the point where I was barely able to walk. If
you don't know about sciatica, it can range from minor leg pain, to
excruciating pain when you attempt to stand. It got that bad for me. Think
'root canal' without anestethic.

It took two or three months, but John took the pain away. There was no
magic involved, and no painful wrenching of my body. He simply used proven
techniques.

And when I had a problem he couldn't address, heel pain, Plantar Fasciitis,
he directed me immediately to an MD, who took care of that problem
immediately.

Chiropratic is NOT a black art. Old chiroprators may actually be people you
would want to avoid.

I trust John all the way. If he thinks I need to see an MD he says so.




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11 Jan 2004 13:44:29
Dennis Holmes
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Neil - If I were you I would see a recommended chiropractor as quickly as
possible. I have been getting chiropractic adjustments since I was in my
twenties. If fact downhauling strained my back recently and it did not heal
until I got adjusted by a chiropractor. This is one area where alternative
medicne works. Why else would some major insurance companies provide
coverage? However it is a skill and some chiros have it and others do not.
Try to get recommendations from folks who have had allot of experience with
chiropractors. If I run and do yoga I can pretty much avoid having to go
unless I experience some trauma such as snowboarding falls etc.
"Neil" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when
bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months
I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if
I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I
could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
> thanks,
>
> Neil
>
>




11 Jan 2004 11:25:19
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Chiropractic generally works better than traditional (U.S.) medicine on
lower back pain, but for GOD'S SAKE THEE TO A DOCTOR FIRST to find out what
the hell's wrong. Don't piddle around with an injured back!

Mike m/




11 Jan 2004 22:06:00
Bill
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Neil,

Where exactly does it hurt? Do you or did you have spasms?
Do you have numbness or pain radiating to your legs? Are you
substantially better than you were 2 months ago?

Spasms generally indicate a muscle pull. Feelings of numbness
and spreading of pain into the legs are good signs of a nerve
irritation from spinal injury.

If you have a muscle pull (and I would bet that you do), some of
the best things you can do are:

*As soon as you are able, stretch the injured muscle slowly,
carefully and often to regain flexibility.

*Do everything you can to increase blood flow to the injured
muscle. Using heating pads (as someone suggested) or
massage is good, but even better are exercises that make the
injured muscle work without placing too much load on it. For
example, riding the bicycle is a good way to speed the healing
process for a lumbar back injury.

Completely resting the injured muscle is usually not the fastest
way to get it back to health.

Whether you go on a windsurfing vacation next week or get
back into windsurfing at your home launch, you should start
slowly and carefully. Do short sessions and only go out in
windy conditions where you can waterstart instead of uphaul, as
someone else suggested. Gradually increase duration and
intensity. The same self-discipline that you used to stay away
from windsurfing for two months should enable you to get
through the retraining/rehab period.

Lastly, I know how it all feels because I too have had to stay
away from windsurfing, among other sports, for the last 2 1/2
months. I've been fighting knee pain in both knees and I've
finally recovered enough to sail again. Today was my first day
back on the water and even though I limited myself to only 1 1/2
hours, it was a great feeling and an even better not to feel pain
afterwards.

Bill Ehrreich

Sent via www.sfbsa.com
The South Florida Board Sailing Association


11 Jan 2004 19:22:37
Juli
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

I'm four months into recovery from a C-7(neck) herniated disk. Missed
most of the fall seasion. I initally had a tingling in my left finger
tips and persitent pain in my left shoulder blade while driving. I
went to a Chiropractor and "coincidently", it all got much worse
afterwards. An MRI, which I should have had done BEFORE the chiro,
showed a moderate herniation. A neuorsurgeon who I saw later advised
me not to have adjustments with a heriated disk.

So my advice is; get an MRI before you have anything done and see a
back specialist, just to be safe. Chiro has its place, but you need to
know just what your condition is before you proceed.

Also, I previously had chronic lower back problems and this were
never a problem once I got into a rigerous PT program, 3-4 times a
week (swim, crunchs, aerobics, etc). Building the abs is particularly
important.

Good luck.


11 Jan 2004 19:39:31
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

I used to be crippled (couldn't walk on my hind legs) by lower back pain for
a couple of days a couple of times every year. A PT taught me a simple, safe
trick to shut if off at the first warning. That was four years ago, and it
hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since. Hooray
for PTs!

Mike m/

"Juli" <[email protected] > wrote
> I previously had chronic lower back problems and this were
> never a problem once I got into a rigerous PT program, 3-4 times a
> week (swim, crunchs, aerobics, etc).




11 Jan 2004 03:20:47
Bill
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

"Neil" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when
bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months
I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if
I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I
could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
If you do not get some supervision, don't go.




12 Jan 2004 06:35:15
Steve Elliott
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Mike,

Um, are you going to share it with us???

Steve

Mike F wrote:

> I used to be crippled (couldn't walk on my hind legs) by lower back pain for
> a couple of days a couple of times every year. A PT taught me a simple, safe
> trick to shut if off at the first warning. That was four years ago, and it
> hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since. Hooray
> for PTs!
>
> Mike m/
>
> "Juli" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I previously had chronic lower back problems and this were
>>never a problem once I got into a rigerous PT program, 3-4 times a
>>week (swim, crunchs, aerobics, etc).
>
>
>



12 Jan 2004 11:16:19
Nick
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

I've had a long history of back problems which eventually ended up in a
last-resort disc surgery two years ago. Cause? Office job.

I've found that recovering from injury is best done by staying (moderately)
active. Spending too much time lying down actually seems to make things
worse for me. I've found that brisk walking is great for your lower back,
many people don't consider it rigorous enough but it's helped me a lot.
Flexibility is important but don't overdo it you can actually aggravate
things that way. Just stay consistently active at a reasonable pace
increasing very gradually toward more rigorous PT/routine as pain subsides.
I went to some hard-core PT in the past that wasn't helping me at all, and
actually seemed to be counterproductive, so one thing to remember is to
really tune into your own body and don't let someone else tell you something
is working for you. Judge everything by your progress, don't get the macho
mentality. And of course keep the abs strong. But oddly enough, if the
lower back muscles aren't getting a good workout as well, too much ab
exercise can cause an imbalance that can aggravate your injury. No need for
an MRI unless you start getting leg problems.

My season ended early this year from an awkward beach start. You don't have
to catapult or uphaul to hurt your back. I'd have to say by getting out on
the water you are taking a risk, and you have to weigh that risk. Backs
hate repeat injuries.

Nick


"Neil" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
>
> I injured my lower back a couple of months ago when I uphauled a 7.5 in
> moderate winds and put far too much effort into it. At the time it wasn't
> too painful, but ever since then the lower back has been sore when
bending,
> or driving my car.
>
> Now that was two months ago and it's still not better. In those two months
I
> have refrained from windsurfing - just a bit of swimming.
>
> Here's my dilemma. I'm meant to be going on holiday windsurfing next week,
> but am really worried about completely messing up my back. I know that if
I
> get on a board it will not be possible for me to take it easy given the
> nature of our sport.
>
> Should I forget the holiday completely, and stop windsurfing until I sort
> the back out 100%? I appreciate these are difficult questions but I
could
> do with advice ( I know should really ask my GP), but I would value input
> from windsurfers who have had back problems before.
>
> thanks,
>
> Neil
>
>




12 Jan 2004 12:17:17
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Are you guys watching this thread on "After 17 years of Windsurfing, I've
had it!?
An excerpt:

Let me guess: You uphaul without ensuring your back is arched; there should
be a hollow in the small of our back the size of our hand virtually all our
waking hours, and ESPECIALLY when exerting any effort. And realize that the
weight we carry in front of our spine is counterweighted every upright
moment by . . . Ta Da . . . our lower back muscles.

My lower back problems began >50 years ago (crippled myself for a few days
playing cards in grammar school, for example) and didn't go away until the
cause was diagnosed and a preventative treatment was taught me in 2000. But
nothing I've ever tried, including acupuncture, chiropracty, electrotherapy,
PT, posture modification, bed rest, swearing, massage, prescription drugs,
and prayer, has ever switched off a back spasm as instantly and thoroughly
as hanging in a harness. A Detroit-built auto seat with good lumbar support
is close, because they are designed for men my height, but a butt harness,
whether in a shop or on a plane, is PERFECT. I'm not aware of SAILING ever
having caused or exacerbated my back pain; just the opposite, it switches it
off. (I suspect that some horrible, rag-doll, hooked-in wipeouts have led to
spasms, and I'd guess (I don't remember) that some of my early, improper,
bent-over uphaul or downhaulsessions did, but not SAILING, including
constant turning and jumping.) If a bud can carry my gear to the water, and
I can crawl/float out to it and gut out getting onto a plane, the relief is
instant and total and lasts for a few hours post-shred.

If your back pain is muscular in origin, PT, PROPER strength-building, and
proper USE of that strength (especially when lifting) will solve your
problems . . . including the excess weight. I doubt normal WSing injures
many healthy backs. In fact, it probably helps them if it leads to greater
exercise and motivation. For me it beats the HELL out of "working out".

Mike m/


"Nick" <[email protected] > wrote
> I understand that in a perfect stance/technique, the back takes little
> strain. But I'm a heavyweight, which really seems to make a difference in
> this area. I've found that if I want to sail in light air (translation -
> sail at all in the summer here), I have to rig at least my 9.6. And not
to
> embark on a gear discussion but let's be honest, the gear really
piles/adds
> up for heavyweights in light air, doesn't it?. . .I have acquired a
downhaul
> crank, carbon boom, mast, even an ez-uphaul gizmo, all of it helps but. .
> .I'm just being realistic. I do the best I can to be careful and avoid
> injuries, and I'd guess that in the harness/footstrap learning stages
(where
> I am) the back takes more of a beating than earlier or later on. Trying
> this winter to shed some blubber for a more lightweight spring :-)
>





12 Jan 2004 12:18:22
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

When I get a chance I'll Google up my previous post on it.

Mike m/

"Steve Elliott" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Mike,
>
> Um, are you going to share it with us???
>
> Steve
>
> Mike F wrote:
>
> > I used to be crippled (couldn't walk on my hind legs) by lower back pain
for
> > a couple of days a couple of times every year. A PT taught me a simple,
safe
> > trick to shut if off at the first warning. That was four years ago, and
it
> > hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since.
Hooray
> > for PTs!
> >
> > Mike m/
> >
> > "Juli" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> >> I previously had chronic lower back problems and this were
> >>never a problem once I got into a rigerous PT program, 3-4 times a
> >>week (swim, crunchs, aerobics, etc).
> >
> >
> >
>




12 Jan 2004 18:08:23
Nick
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Actually I'm sure my uphaul technique isn't perfect but I try like hell to
keep the lumbar arched, use legs, etc. And I agree many of the traditional
therapies can be fruitless. I think also one of the things I've noticed on
uphauling is that strain/injury can occur as a result of balance problems.
Even if I have the right stance while uphauling, if I'm on my lower volume
board (which ain't low at all) and wobbling or fighting it before I'm dialed
in gusty conditions I can feel things going wrong down there.

> If your back pain is muscular in origin,

My problem is a couple of blown discs, one I finally had to have snipped to
function normally, one still down there oozing that wonderful jelly into
already crowded nerve pathways. . .so much fun! Years of mogul skiing might
have helped me get where I am. I think maybe I should have phrased it: "My
already thrashed back may pay the price"

Nick

"Mike F" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Are you guys watching this thread on "After 17 years of Windsurfing, I've
> had it!?
> An excerpt:
>
> Let me guess: You uphaul without ensuring your back is arched; there
should
> be a hollow in the small of our back the size of our hand virtually all
our
> waking hours, and ESPECIALLY when exerting any effort. And realize that
the
> weight we carry in front of our spine is counterweighted every upright
> moment by . . . Ta Da . . . our lower back muscles.
>
> My lower back problems began >50 years ago (crippled myself for a few days
> playing cards in grammar school, for example) and didn't go away until the
> cause was diagnosed and a preventative treatment was taught me in 2000.
But
> nothing I've ever tried, including acupuncture, chiropracty,
electrotherapy,
> PT, posture modification, bed rest, swearing, massage, prescription drugs,
> and prayer, has ever switched off a back spasm as instantly and thoroughly
> as hanging in a harness. A Detroit-built auto seat with good lumbar
support
> is close, because they are designed for men my height, but a butt harness,
> whether in a shop or on a plane, is PERFECT. I'm not aware of SAILING ever
> having caused or exacerbated my back pain; just the opposite, it switches
it
> off. (I suspect that some horrible, rag-doll, hooked-in wipeouts have led
to
> spasms, and I'd guess (I don't remember) that some of my early, improper,
> bent-over uphaul or downhaulsessions did, but not SAILING, including
> constant turning and jumping.) If a bud can carry my gear to the water,
and
> I can crawl/float out to it and gut out getting onto a plane, the relief
is
> instant and total and lasts for a few hours post-shred.
>
> If your back pain is muscular in origin, PT, PROPER strength-building, and
> proper USE of that strength (especially when lifting) will solve your
> problems . . . including the excess weight. I doubt normal WSing injures
> many healthy backs. In fact, it probably helps them if it leads to greater
> exercise and motivation. For me it beats the HELL out of "working out".
>
> Mike m/
>
>
> "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote
> > I understand that in a perfect stance/technique, the back takes little
> > strain. But I'm a heavyweight, which really seems to make a difference
in
> > this area. I've found that if I want to sail in light air (translation -
> > sail at all in the summer here), I have to rig at least my 9.6. And not
> to
> > embark on a gear discussion but let's be honest, the gear really
> piles/adds
> > up for heavyweights in light air, doesn't it?. . .I have acquired a
> downhaul
> > crank, carbon boom, mast, even an ez-uphaul gizmo, all of it helps but.
.
> > .I'm just being realistic. I do the best I can to be careful and avoid
> > injuries, and I'd guess that in the harness/footstrap learning stages
> (where
> > I am) the back takes more of a beating than earlier or later on. Trying
> > this winter to shed some blubber for a more lightweight spring :-)
> >
>
>
>




12 Jan 2004 19:09:48
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Ahhh, Google: it's at
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22lower+back%22+group:rec.windsurfing+author:Mike&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=5&as_miny=2001&as_maxd=12&as_maxm=1&as_maxy=2004&selm=aqyY6.83225%24u34.3738589%40e420r-sjo2.usenetserver.com&rnum=5

But here it is in case that fails, and with a few updates:

Let me preface it with a warning: its purpose is to slowly,
gently (as opposed to a sudden, more extensive, and more immediately
effective chiropractic adjustment) apply a corrective force to a mis-aligned
sacro-iliac (S-I) joint -- a VERY common cause of lower back pain. Caveats
include:
1. The problem may not be a misaligned S-I joint, in which case this would
not help.
2. It may be a nerve injury or impingement, a disc problem, a vertebra
injury, or a muscle injury, any of which could be exacerbated by exertion.
3. If it is appropriate, your PT or chiropractor should have shown it to
you.
4. It's just one VERY small pixel in the whole panorama of treatment for bad
backs.
5. Even the whole panorama is of little success with millions of "bad
backs".
6. Many studies of the three main types of treatment -- chemical,
chiropractic, and PT (strengthening & stretching) -- show that of the people
who get any benefit at all, about a third responds best to chem, a third to
chiro, and a third to PT.
7. This stretch is just a band-aid, employed when everything else has failed
and I feel or see a misalignment (after being taught to see and feel it).
8. You won't feel any real relief, because this stretch is intended simply
to reduce the strain on a muscle which is being overworked, not switch off a
full-blown spasm like a chiropractor can.
9. This should feel neither great (because its help, if any, is subtle and
gradual) nor the least bit painful (because that may exacerbate the problem
or could indicate other problems.)

That said, if this were something aggressive, ballistic (as in a bouncing
stretch or a sudden self-adjustment employing momentum), or tricky to do
properly (many stretches, like many weight-lifting moves, require very
precise technique to be safe and/or effective), I'd stop here.

NOW ... after all that ... the technique that seems to help relax the muscle
that spasms/cramps in MY back when MY sacroiliac joint is misaligned, as
diagnosed
by physicians and x-rays initially and detectable by visual observation (my
left front hip prominence drops below my right hip prominence [the bony
prominences on either side of my belly at my waist] as I stand in front of a
mirror and my back aches at my waist two inches left of my spine --- the SI
joint):

Now . . .finally . . . the stretch that usually relieves the muscle tension
that aborts MY back spasm:
I lie on my back, relax my right led so it straightens out on the floor or
bed (a rolled towel or small pillow under my right knee feels good), raise
my left knee up towards my face until I can lock my hands together beneath
my left femur at my
left knee, and try to lower/straighten my left leg at full strength while my
shoulders and
arms resist at full strength. I hold this isometric effort for 10-15 seconds
a few times a day when I perceive tension or misalignment, and hope it draws
the misaligned S-I joint back where it
should be. If it doesn't, that little muscle that aches from trying to
realign the S-I joint all by itself may ultimately go from ache to acetylene
torch as though struck by a bullet the next time I tie a shoe or pick up a
sock, when it gives up and just goes into total spasm to teach me a lesson.

Once mine does that, I have only four ways to switch off the acetylene
torch: lie down on a good bed, sit in a good car seat (I'm the average 5-10
guy car seats are designed for), get a chiropractic adjustment, or hook in
on a plane (after someone carries my gear to the water).

That's a lot of prose for such a simple procedure, but I think every comment
is important, for self-evident reasons.

Mike m/


"Steve Elliott" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Mike,
>
> Um, are you going to share it with us???
>
> Steve
>
> Mike F wrote:
>
> > I used to be crippled (couldn't walk on my hind legs) by lower back pain
for
> > a couple of days a couple of times every year. A PT taught me a simple,
safe
> > trick to shut if off at the first warning. That was four years ago, and
it
> > hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since.
Hooray
> > for PTs!
> >
> > Mike m/
> >
> > "Juli" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> >> I previously had chronic lower back problems and this were
> >>never a problem once I got into a rigerous PT program, 3-4 times a
> >>week (swim, crunchs, aerobics, etc).
> >
> >
> >
>




14 Jan 2004 16:06:07
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:26:11 -0500, Jeff F wrote
(in message <[email protected] >):

> In my opinion stay away from chiropractors, they are modern versions of
> snake oil salesman, it only works if you BELIEVE.
>
> Go see a real sports medicine doctor, an MD. Insist on an MRI. If you do not
> have any pain, tingling , or numbness in your legs you are probally ok. Also
> find a windier location if you have a week back you should be water starting
> only
> and use nothing bigger than a 5.8 on 75carbon mast or higher for light
> wieght and a carbon boom. Also carry your sail rig to the water's edge
> seperatly from your board. And have someone else down haul your sail when
> rigging up.
>
> Regards
> Jeff
>
>

Mri not indicated here...
core stabilization rehab protocol should work...
Dr. John



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14 Jan 2004 16:08:49
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

A chiro may be helpful if pain intensifies in lumbar extension and
lateralizes to one side - this indicates the likley source of pain as the
Z-joint - kilely rotated and a good candidate for a manipulation - otherwise
rehab is the answer
Dr. John
Spine Med.....




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14 Jan 2004 16:13:39
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:25:19 -0500, Mike F wrote
(in message <[email protected] >):

> Chiropractic generally works better than traditional (U.S.) medicine on
> lower back pain, but for GOD'S SAKE THEE TO A DOCTOR FIRST to find out what
> the hell's wrong. Don't piddle around with an injured back!
>
> Mike m/
>
>

hmmm.......

Dr.John
Spine Doc



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14 Jan 2004 16:15:45
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:39:31 -0500, Mike F wrote
(in message <[email protected] >):

it
> hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since. Hooray
> for PTs!
>
> Mike m/
>

Who learned from Rehab docs...
***bows slowly ****

Dr.John
Spine Doc




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14 Jan 2004 16:18:00
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:17:17 -0500, Mike F wrote
(in message <10060aand[email protected] >):


>
> My lower back problems began >50 years ago (crippled myself for a few days
> playing cards in grammar school, for example) and didn't go away until the
> cause was diagnosed and a preventative treatment was taught me in 2000. But
> nothing I've ever tried, including acupuncture, chiropracty, electrotherapy,
> PT, posture modification, bed rest, swearing, massage, prescription drugs,
> and prayer, has ever switched off a back spasm as instantly and thoroughly
> as hanging in a harness. A Detroit-built auto seat with good lumbar support
> is close, because they are designed for men my height, but a butt harness,
> whether in a shop or on a plane, is PERFECT.

Comes in handy for date night too ?

Dr.John
Spine Doc



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14 Jan 2004 16:44:17
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

In one of my rare sojourns through rec.windsurfing I found this thread nad
added comments -both appropriatte and non throughout- home you've got groupp
threading on or it will make no sense.

I am - as some may rememebr- a spine etc rehab doc.

Modern research as led to exciting and useful developments and it is best
explained and condensed for the public and professional communities in a
terrific text;
Low Back Disorders: Evidence-Based Prevention and Rehabilitation
Stuart McGill, PhD
( see amazon.com for it)

This is the best text I've found to lay out the foundation for what can go
wrong, how it does go wrong and what to do about it when it does in a manner
that the general interested public will have no trouble understanding. I
require it for my residents and students.

As a practitioner in this field for 15 yrs I can honestly say that whoever
reads this book will no more about back pain and care than just about any
MD/DO/DC/PT on the planet....unfortunately.

Where this book really shines is in the description and photos of what should
consitute a core lumabr stabilility excercise program - very simple, quick
and effective.

Unfortuantely I haven't been on a board in 2 years - life etc...
Anyone going to Bonaire soon ? i need a break...and all my sailing buddies
got old....

Regards

John L Dunne, DO
Ohio Sports & Spine Institute





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14 Jan 2004 13:46:07
Mike F
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

I don't know about rehab docs, but most of the PTs I've consulted have done
some pretty vital things all of my doctors and surgeons omitted. Heck, I've
had surgeons even tell me PT is useless, that only a surgeon can do any
good. And I've seen a TON (literally) of doctors. Glad you're an exception.

Mike m/

"jldunne" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:39:31 -0500, Mike F wrote
> (in message <[email protected]>):
>
> it
> > hasn't gotten past the barely noticeable early warning stage since.
Hooray
> > for PTs!
> >
> > Mike m/
> >
>
> Who learned from Rehab docs...
> ***bows slowly ****
>
> Dr.John
> Spine Doc
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com- The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----




14 Jan 2004 17:23:37
Ellen Faller
Re: Windsurfing hand question

Do we have any HAND injury/problem specialists here? The back is fine
(for now anyway...) but there seems to be a tendon problem developing.
I have an appt in 2 weeks, but I'm curious for now.
Dr. John, I met you in Bonaire several years ago. You need to get out on
the water more! That's my prescription for you.
Ellen

jldunne wrote:
> In one of my rare sojourns through rec.windsurfing I found this thread nad
> added comments -both appropriatte and non throughout- home you've got groupp
> threading on or it will make no sense.
>
> I am - as some may rememebr- a spine etc rehab doc.
>
> Modern research as led to exciting and useful developments and it is best
> explained and condensed for the public and professional communities in a
> terrific text;
> Low Back Disorders: Evidence-Based Prevention and Rehabilitation
> Stuart McGill, PhD
> ( see amazon.com for it)
>
> This is the best text I've found to lay out the foundation for what can go
> wrong, how it does go wrong and what to do about it when it does in a manner
> that the general interested public will have no trouble understanding. I
> require it for my residents and students.
>
> As a practitioner in this field for 15 yrs I can honestly say that whoever
> reads this book will no more about back pain and care than just about any
> MD/DO/DC/PT on the planet....unfortunately.
>
> Where this book really shines is in the description and photos of what should
> consitute a core lumabr stabilility excercise program - very simple, quick
> and effective.
>
> Unfortuantely I haven't been on a board in 2 years - life etc...
> Anyone going to Bonaire soon ? i need a break...and all my sailing buddies
> got old....
>
> Regards
>
> John L Dunne, DO
> Ohio Sports & Spine Institute
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.newsfeeds.com- The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



15 Jan 2004 21:03:13
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing hand question


LOL- Hello Ellen - yes I remember it well..
Funny you should mention hands - do alot of that also - i have a performance
medicine clinic which deals with performance artists,k muscicians have
numerous hand overuse injuries, and we take care of the usual assortment of
work and sports related upper-extremity problems. Deep myofascial release
approaches tendonopathies such as the Alexander Technique generally work
wonders. What's going on ?

Dr. John


On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:23:37 -0500, Ellen Faller wrote
(in message <[email protected] >):

> Do we have any HAND injury/problem specialists here? The back is fine
> (for now anyway...) but there seems to be a tendon problem developing.
> I have an appt in 2 weeks, but I'm curious for now.
> Dr. John, I met you in Bonaire several years ago. You need to get out on
> the water more! That's my prescription for you.
> Ellen
>



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15 Jan 2004 21:05:10
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

LOL- I'm not surprised - you know surgeons: "Nothing Heals Like Cold Hard
Steel"

John

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:46:07 -0500, Mike F wrote
(in message <[email protected] >):

> I don't know about rehab docs, but most of the PTs I've consulted have done
> some pretty vital things all of my doctors and surgeons omitted. Heck, I've
> had surgeons even tell me PT is useless, that only a surgeon can do any
> good. And I've seen a TON (literally) of doctors. Glad you're an exception.
>
> Mike m/




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16 Jan 2004 02:56:44
Ellen Faller
Re: Windsurfing hand question

Hi Dr. John,
I seem to have "trigger finger" due to using large diameter booms.
I've used narrow booms for years, but had to use larger ones for some
racing in Dec. Immediately afterward, this locking finger thing began.
Worse in the right hand, only mild in the left. My massage therapist
(who keeps my back and shoulders and arms in good shape) suggested it,
since she'd had something like it when she was learning massage. I then
self-diagnosed via the internet. What resolves this problem? Something
not too drastic I hope. But since it is single digit temps here and
subzero windchills, I'm not going to be sailing anytime soon. My friends
are leaving for "the trip" to Bonaire on Sat. Wish I were going along...
Ellen

jldunne wrote:

> LOL- Hello Ellen - yes I remember it well..
> Funny you should mention hands - do alot of that also - i have a performance
> medicine clinic which deals with performance artists,k muscicians have
> numerous hand overuse injuries, and we take care of the usual assortment of
> work and sports related upper-extremity problems. Deep myofascial release
> approaches tendonopathies such as the Alexander Technique generally work
> wonders. What's going on ?
>
> Dr. John
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:23:37 -0500, Ellen Faller wrote
> (in message <[email protected]>):
>
>
>>Do we have any HAND injury/problem specialists here? The back is fine
>>(for now anyway...) but there seems to be a tendon problem developing.
>> I have an appt in 2 weeks, but I'm curious for now.
>>Dr. John, I met you in Bonaire several years ago. You need to get out on
>>the water more! That's my prescription for you.
>> Ellen
>>
>
>
>
>
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> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



16 Jan 2004
jldunne
Re: Windsurfing hand question

Ellen,

Tigger finger, as you probably have Googled, - I love that - is caused by
friction at the A1 or A2 pulley by an inflammed tenssynovium - the slippery
covering of the tendon. Injury casues inflammation of the structure which
causes it to be more sandpaper like than slippery. A nodule may also form...

http://www.eorthopod.com/eorthopodV2/index.php/fuseaction/topics.detail/ID/200
e21fd7a64145fa303c0e0d08ca47f/area/11

initial management is splinting in a position of function, ice, NSAIDs and
massge to encourage gliding of the tendon - try that for about 4 weeks

If no better then a small cortisone injection to the pulley really is
necessary - it reduces the inflammatory injury response of the tenosynovium
and usually works fine but...

If all elese fails a hand surgeon will split the pulley to free it up adn
then you go back to step #1...

Regards

JOhn


> Hi Dr. John,
> I seem to have "trigger finger" due to using large diameter booms.
> I've used narrow booms for years, but had to use larger ones for some
> racing in Dec. Immediately afterward, this locking finger thing began.
> Worse in the right hand, only mild in the left. My massage therapist
> (who keeps my back and shoulders and arms in good shape) suggested it,
> since she'd had something like it when she was learning massage. I then
> self-diagnosed via the internet. What resolves this problem? Something
> not too drastic I hope. But since it is single digit temps here and
> subzero windchills, I'm not going to be sailing anytime soon. My friends
> are leaving for "the trip" to Bonaire on Sat. Wish I were going along...
> Ellen

>>
>>
>>
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>> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>




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17 Jan 2004 16:58:11
Steve Elliott
Re: Windsurfing back injury question

Mike,

You're right on the butt harness. I've been debilitated with back spasms
and knife stabbing pain, sometimes in my lower back, sometimes in my
upper ribcage near my scapula. I've had to lay down for an entire
morning unable to work, strongly medicated, to wait for the afternoon
blow, when I know that if I'm good enough to rig, the pain will be gone
after a 2 hour session.

Steve

Mike F wrote:
> Are you guys watching this thread on "After 17 years of Windsurfing, I've
> had it!?
> An excerpt:
>
> Let me guess: You uphaul without ensuring your back is arched; there should
> be a hollow in the small of our back the size of our hand virtually all our
> waking hours, and ESPECIALLY when exerting any effort. And realize that the
> weight we carry in front of our spine is counterweighted every upright
> moment by . . . Ta Da . . . our lower back muscles.
>
> My lower back problems began >50 years ago (crippled myself for a few days
> playing cards in grammar school, for example) and didn't go away until the
> cause was diagnosed and a preventative treatment was taught me in 2000. But
> nothing I've ever tried, including acupuncture, chiropracty, electrotherapy,
> PT, posture modification, bed rest, swearing, massage, prescription drugs,
> and prayer, has ever switched off a back spasm as instantly and thoroughly
> as hanging in a harness. A Detroit-built auto seat with good lumbar support
> is close, because they are designed for men my height, but a butt harness,
> whether in a shop or on a plane, is PERFECT. I'm not aware of SAILING ever
> having caused or exacerbated my back pain; just the opposite, it switches it
> off. (I suspect that some horrible, rag-doll, hooked-in wipeouts have led to
> spasms, and I'd guess (I don't remember) that some of my early, improper,
> bent-over uphaul or downhaulsessions did, but not SAILING, including
> constant turning and jumping.) If a bud can carry my gear to the water, and
> I can crawl/float out to it and gut out getting onto a plane, the relief is
> instant and total and lasts for a few hours post-shred.
>
> If your back pain is muscular in origin, PT, PROPER strength-building, and
> proper USE of that strength (especially when lifting) will solve your
> problems . . . including the excess weight. I doubt normal WSing injures
> many healthy backs. In fact, it probably helps them if it leads to greater
> exercise and motivation. For me it beats the HELL out of "working out".
>
> Mike m/
>
>
> "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>I understand that in a perfect stance/technique, the back takes little
>>strain. But I'm a heavyweight, which really seems to make a difference in
>>this area. I've found that if I want to sail in light air (translation -
>>sail at all in the summer here), I have to rig at least my 9.6. And not
>
> to
>
>>embark on a gear discussion but let's be honest, the gear really
>
> piles/adds
>
>>up for heavyweights in light air, doesn't it?. . .I have acquired a
>
> downhaul
>
>>crank, carbon boom, mast, even an ez-uphaul gizmo, all of it helps but. .
>>.I'm just being realistic. I do the best I can to be careful and avoid
>>injuries, and I'd guess that in the harness/footstrap learning stages
>
> (where
>
>>I am) the back takes more of a beating than earlier or later on. Trying
>>this winter to shed some blubber for a more lightweight spring :-)
>>
>
>
>
>



20 Jan 2004 16:55:27
Ellen Faller
Re: Windsurfing hand question

Thank you. I prefer having some knowledge about what is wrong, and what
perhaps made it go wrong. I had not realized that something, nodule or
swollen area, was getting caught somehow, and was kind of treating the
thing like a trick act. I was probably making it worse! So I've quit
trying to make it stick (duh...) and am treating it with due diligence
until I can see a local doctor. Since it is arctic weather here, and
well past the functional use of gloves, not to mention the windchill
being off scale, I don't have to worry about the mechanics for a while.
improving daily,
Ellen

PS I don't suppose you could write me prescription for relocation to
somewhere warm and sunny where I could limit myself to narrow diameter
booms???? Like Bonaire? Or even Florida??? Please???

jldunne wrote:

> Ellen,
>
> Tigger finger, as you probably have Googled, - I love that - is caused by
> friction at the A1 or A2 pulley by an inflammed tenssynovium - the slippery
> covering of the tendon. Injury casues inflammation of the structure which
> causes it to be more sandpaper like than slippery. A nodule may also form...
>
> http://www.eorthopod.com/eorthopodV2/index.php/fuseaction/topics.detail/ID/200
> e21fd7a64145fa303c0e0d08ca47f/area/11
>
> initial management is splinting in a position of function, ice, NSAIDs and
> massge to encourage gliding of the tendon - try that for about 4 weeks
>
> If no better then a small cortisone injection to the pulley really is
> necessary - it reduces the inflammatory injury response of the tenosynovium
> and usually works fine but...
>
> If all elese fails a hand surgeon will split the pulley to free it up adn
> then you go back to step #1...
>
> Regards
>
> JOhn
>
>
>
>>Hi Dr. John,
>> I seem to have "trigger finger" due to using large diameter booms.
>>I've used narrow booms for years, but had to use larger ones for some
>>racing in Dec. Immediately afterward, this locking finger thing began.
>>Worse in the right hand, only mild in the left. My massage therapist
>>(who keeps my back and shoulders and arms in good shape) suggested it,
>>since she'd had something like it when she was learning massage. I then
>>self-diagnosed via the internet. What resolves this problem? Something
>>not too drastic I hope. But since it is single digit temps here and
>>subzero windchills, I'm not going to be sailing anytime soon. My friends
>>are leaving for "the trip" to Bonaire on Sat. Wish I were going along...
>> Ellen
>
>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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